Are you gunna 'do' the G8?

Aye - cabre, kilts and riot cops
50% (21 votes)
Nay - err.. Marxism 2005?
50% (21 votes)
Total votes: 42

Posted By

Jacques Roux
May 25 2005 16:41

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Jacques Roux
May 25 2005 16:41

Well kinda predictable, just wanted to see what the numbers look like here... whose going? Why? If not why not? Etc. etc.

I considered going - 'cos i've never been to Scotland before and i thought it might be nice in the summer, but had a better idea for somewhere to go.. so im not....

I think it will be interesting to see what affect the period of time after the G8 has on the left in the UK. For a period of time now 'we' have been on some sort of trajectory towards the G8, so it seems to be like some sort of defining moment. I have some ideas on that but im gunna keep them to myself for now wink

gav
May 25 2005 16:49

i am not going, i honestly cant see what people hope to achieve out of it, even in a 'best case scenario' type way. i wouldnt be able to get time off work even if i wanted to.

i am also a little apprehensive, because it seems likely a fair few people will get nicked and end up in jail, which is tolerable if you are achieving something worthwhile, but pretty depressing if your not. so roll on lots of benefit gigs, fundraising and letter writing for people who get jailed for really pointless reasons. sad

oisleep
May 25 2005 16:53

i'm not going as away on holiday when it's on, doubt i would have went anyway to be honest,i used to live in perth in scotland not that far from gleneagles, the exclusion zone is huge, and i'm not going up from london to scotland to demo in edinburgh/glasgow, i'd prefer to stay/do local

oh and the cabres, kilts, references etc. are pretty tedious

Jacques Roux
May 25 2005 16:59
oisleep wrote:
oh and the cabres, kilts, references etc. are pretty tedious

Ok thanks for letting me know.

oisleep
May 25 2005 17:01

speaking as a scot i find them tedious

gav
May 25 2005 17:03
oisleep wrote:
speaking as a scot i find them tedious

surely its your own fault, since you wear kilts and throw cabers all day long, no?

oisleep
May 25 2005 17:05

aye, that'll be it

same with you lot and your bedroom tidying aversion, if you just tidied them people wouldn't go on about is so much!

gav
May 25 2005 17:08
oisleep wrote:
aye, that'll be it

same with you lot and your bedroom tidying aversion, if you just tidied them people wouldn't go on about is so much!

alright, i'll clean my room , just as long as you stop eating deep fried mars bars, you big scottish cliche

pingtiao
May 25 2005 17:23

haha! What a cliquist you are gav!

wink

gav
May 25 2005 17:25

whats a cliquist?

pingtiao
May 25 2005 17:28
oisleep wrote:
...clique ridden stench of some of the contributions here are incredible and certainly no great advert for the movement as a whole
gav
May 25 2005 17:30

thanks for clarifying mr brinton

nastyned
May 25 2005 20:08

I'm pretty much with gav on this one.

pingtiao
May 25 2005 20:10

as do i

apart from the "brinton" bit- whioch i dont get at all smile

wheresmyshoes
May 25 2005 20:27

I really do want to go, I was originally going to go with my best mate but he can't come now. But my big brother is in uni in Scotland so hopefully he'll be going since he's in the SWP.....hey beggars can't be choosers wink

ffaker
May 25 2005 20:37

I'm going. Prob to help Indymedia with tech stuff.

I understand (and partially share) some people's reservatons about summit-hopping, spectacular protests, activist-ism etc. but surely *trying* to stop the G8 summit is "something worthwhile", even if you don't agree with with its prominence?

Jacques Roux
May 25 2005 20:43

I think the arguement is that the energy invested before, during and after doesnt really bear fruit... instead its sometimes the opposite and just leads to things getting worse...

gav
May 25 2005 22:15
asa wrote:
I'm going. Prob to help Indymedia with tech stuff.

I understand (and partially share) some people's reservatons about summit-hopping, spectacular protests, activist-ism etc. but surely *trying* to stop the G8 summit is "something worthwhile", even if you don't agree with with its prominence?

i could *try* to stop the tide coming in with my mind, but its not likely to be very sucessful is it? so why bother?

i could *try* to bring about libertarian communism by going up to scotland, and along with 300 odd anarchists, pretend we are gonna 'blockade' the conference. but a) we wont be able to block it b) even if we could, would it make any difference?

its odd isnt it, the amount of time, energy, money, possibility of imprisonment, etc people are willing to invest in organising protests they must know deep down wont change fuck all. roll eyes

gav
May 25 2005 22:16
pingtiao wrote:
as do i

apart from the "brinton" bit- whioch i dont get at all :)

i was inferring that you are a bit like maurice brinton wink

pingtiao
May 26 2005 11:07

I do wish, but I'm more like.... someone else

Steven.
May 26 2005 11:14
asa wrote:
I understand (and partially share) some people's reservatons about summit-hopping, spectacular protests, activist-ism etc. but surely *trying* to stop the G8 summit is "something worthwhile", even if you don't agree with with its prominence?

I don't oppose demonstrations against the G8, I mean the G8 are a bunch of bastards, and yeah it would be nice if the conference was shut down, but it is impossible. Spectacular actions (though I doubt the DA thing will be spectacular, just small + isolated) take huge amounts of time and money. I mean just look at how much is being sunk into Dissent, and the trains. Scores of thousands of pounds, and months of work from scores of people, and for what? The government has cleverly recuperated the whole resistance by re-branding the G8 as an "anti-poverty" organisation, and New Labour have themselves called for people to demonstrate at the summit.

I don't think shutting the summit is even on the cards. One key organiser of the south east mobilisation said this on another forum:

Quote:
After all closing the G8 summit (which is impossible IMO) is not the main reason people are going to scotland but rather the potential which is created when alot of people that think beyond their petty needs come together and create relationships that make another world possible.

I mean by all means go, it'll probably be a laugh, but I'm not going to. I think the idea behind the whole thing is misguided, and based exactly on the ridiculous and patronising activist-ist idea that the majority of the population are just mindless automatons - or people who don't think "beyond their petty needs" - so it's up to us, the activist saviours to "do something".

Refused
May 26 2005 11:15

...because activists are like the Rebel Alliance...

Rob Ray
May 26 2005 11:15

Yes, but mainly to push Freedom, report on what's going on*, and get contacts for stuff. A few people from IA are coming along for the fun of it (and cos tumbleweed/gemma like to dress up, bloody exhibitionists roll eyes).

*So something along the lines of 'nothing happening... still nothing happening... Ooh did you see that blac blocker get kicked in the balls? Bet that hurt...'

Garner
May 26 2005 12:22

Vaguely considering getting the train with all the lifestylers just so I can get stopped and sue the filth for compensation.

So no, I don't actually see the point, since I'm not macho enough to really enjoy being beaten senseless by coppers.

sovietpop
May 26 2005 12:38

I'm going. Firstly for the opportunity to meet anarchists from all over the world and exchange experiences with them, secondly to help out with organising the protests and thirdly to do some reporting back for indymedia and anarkismo.

As you can see I didn't mention the protests and blockades. The main reason for me is to be involved in the process of organising a very large international event. I think these protests provide a fairly unique opportunity to learn valuable organisational skills. It's an opportunity to put anarchist theory (for example about decision making) into practise, and by doing so, I'll be able to improve upon my theory. Revolutionaries need skills, summit protests are an ideal workshop.

I certainly don't think it is a question of either summits or other action. Lets put that wee red herring to bed.

gurrier
May 26 2005 13:40

Tens of thousands of people, all of whom are clearly opposed to our capitalist world order and many of whom are interested in anarchist ideas and who are willing to risk the fairly high changes of a beating from plod coming to the UK.

What should anarchists do?

1) Get involved and raise anarchist ideas and criticisms among these people, many of whom share 90% of the ideas of class struggle anarchism

2) Piss and moan about hippies and how shit summit protests are compared to the perfect revolutionary movement that lives in my bedroom.

AndrewF
May 26 2005 14:17
Jack wrote:
Except you don't actually believe that - if you did, you'd be at the MPH march, where there's a bigger interested audience.

Well unless I've missed something I don't think much of MPH falls under gurriers "all of whom are clearly opposed to our capitalist world order and many of whom are interested in anarchist ideas". Not that this would stop me going to MPH if I was there.

Personally I think all the smart arse 'I'm so cool cause I'm not going' just demonstrates what jokers most of you are. Up to SP's post this thread reads like one big self congratulatory circle jerk. You don't need to talk to anyone or learn from anyone because you are the cool people - all you have to do is stroke each others coolness.

I also think the 'summit hoping or local organising' is a red herring except where you are talking of doing the organising. But that is not what it being asked in this poll, is it?

AndrewF
May 26 2005 15:03
Jack wrote:
I assume based on your arguments you attended the ESF and tried to raise your arguments and made networks there?

I didn't but other WSM members did - actually of the two beyond ESF was probably more important as the ESF appeared to be a trot fest. But I certianly didn't stay at home and sneer at those who did go.

Jack wrote:
And clearly if we were "never willing to learn", we'd be fucking going to G8, and wouldn't have adapted our politics upon realising what a stupid waste of time it was.

So what are you doing instead? (genuine question)

pingtiao
May 26 2005 15:21
JoeBlack2 wrote:

1. Personally I think all the smart arse 'I'm so cool cause I'm not going' just demonstrates what jokers most of you are.

2. Up to SP's post this thread reads like one big self congratulatory circle jerk. You don't need to talk to anyone or learn from anyone because you are the cool people - all you have to do is stroke each others coolness.

3. I also think the 'summit hoping or local organising' is a red herring except where you are talking of doing the organising.

1. "most of you"? Who are you talking about here?

2. I think that gav made some perfectly reasonable points, for instance

Quote:
am also a little apprehensive, because it seems likely a fair few people will get nicked and end up in jail, which is tolerable if you are achieving something worthwhile, but pretty depressing if your not. so roll on lots of benefit gigs, fundraising and letter writing for people who get jailed for really pointless reasons.

3. I agree with that.

On this: I haven't decided whether to go or not. I can't see it being very succesful- not after the anti-terror stuff, and the UK being very much in the spotlight with hosting this. I can't see them doing anything other than the most effective policing they can. If there aren't enough people there, there won't be any disturbances, and it will have largely been a waste of time. If there are enough people, there will be a disturbance, and a lot of people will get nicked unneccesarily.

I might still go, we'll see.

AndrewF
May 26 2005 15:37
Jack wrote:
I don't even really know why I'm answering this tho, it's a fucking ridiculous and intellectually dishonest question.

No its not - if you basing your argument around a supposed clash between going to Scotland and doing something locally it is quite reasonable to ask what that local thing is. There might even be a real clash or it might mean you'll be watching the whole thing on Sky with a can of beer.

Jack wrote:
Why didn't you fly to London for the last big anti-war march here? It'd cost you less than going to Gleneagles

There is something you not getting here (well more than one thing).

These summit protests are a little different from stuff like the anti-war marches because they attract large number who have decided that capitalism (rather than Bush or Blair) are the problem. And a lot of them have also decided they are some variety of anarchist. This opens up the possibilities of lots of genuine converstations and debates that you just won't get with robotrots.

It's not simply a question of numbers in other words.

At the moment I'm also not involved in trying to organise stuff in Britain. Badgering you lot on here is more of a hobby than a commitment. If I was then I might well have gone to some of the events over there (and actually I've gone to around a dozen events over there in the last decade anyway, and to stuff in Spain, Mexico, France, Italy, USA and Czech republis).

You on the other hand claim to be trying to organise over there - so G8 offers a chance to meet and work with and get to know a huge number of people you may come across in the future. This is called networking and it is surprizing useful as you often find points in common with people you'd just otherwise rant online at (eg the relationship between some WSM members and some Wombles that emerged from Dublin Mayday). This also enables you to discover that people who sound cool online are in fact just useless tossers - its not all about theory.

But my major gripe is not that your not going but that you've turned not going into a cliquey sneer at those who are. On this thread your (collectively) demonstrating how cool you are by sneering at others. That sort of politics is going nowhere useful.