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dave douglass in weekly worker

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darren red star
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Dec 20 2011 08:27
dave douglass in weekly worker

Please forgive me for starting a new thread on this, I cannot find a thread elsewhere.
In this weeks WW Dave douglass launches a full on attack on Ian bone, for bones support for NATO involvement in Libya. In the course of this Dave misrepresents bones argument, mangling reality to prove Bone a renegade.
If I remember right Ian had argued that the failure of the benghazi insurrection left the city at the mercy of Ghaddaffis thugs, and that opposing western airstrikes effectively condemned the people to death for failure to win their revolution. Dave says in his article that if this was a genuine revolution then it air have won without western support (effectively repeating bones original point). Dave also raises the holy trail of the Spanish civil war, he says that the Spanish govt. Was "socialist, communist, and occasionally anarchist" (news to me).
Dave declares that the Spanish govt.s pleas for western support against fascism were a mistake, presumably, the drowning of the Spanish revolution in blood was preferable to accepting British spitfires.
Quite apart from the above, I am concerned at saves decision to use the pages of the WW for his polemic. This is the paper of the cpgb, a Leninist cult that has a real fixation on anarchists, and if it ever got even a sniff of power would not hesitate to murder every anarchist it could.

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bulmer
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Dec 20 2011 11:56

He's been writing for the paper for a while and I don't know why. I asked him myself and he seemed to think that 'they're not that bad' sort of thing. Dave is just Dave really so I didn't push him on it.

Spikymike
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Dec 20 2011 12:40

Dave Douglass is an interesting guy and a good singer but has always been a leftist type wether in his former trotskyist, Irish republican or more recent anarchist clothes and it seems still manages to mix up the politics of these different strands.

If you read his three part biography (which does have some interesting stuff in it) you can see where these strands come from.

vanilla.ice.baby
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Dec 20 2011 15:00

It makes a change from his usual letters about sexuality...

I don't think there's a really anything wrong with him writing in Weekly Worker published by a group you used to be a member of Darren (at least I thought you were) of 20 - 30 people who are never going to get anywhere near power.

darren red star
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Dec 20 2011 17:22

Oops, outed! I think it is my past sins that mean I still read the old ww, although in my defence I had just spent 20 years in the SWP! Perhaps it is because I remember how these organisations truly regard anarchism that makes me so hostile.

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Steven.
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Dec 20 2011 18:38

I haven't read the article: but he's right to have a go at Bone's disgusting support the bombing

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Def
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Jan 26 2012 00:36

Hello,

CPGB (PCC) member here. I remember reading the article, but no features of it jump out from my memory. I think his main point was "Anarchists shouldn't ask the state to do anything, let alone bomb people!" (not a direct quote, of course). To be honest, the only interesting leftist articles I've read about the whole affair came from a Libyan Anarchist on a blog a while back, there wasn't much original analysis from over here, but I suppose we're too unfamiliar with the ins and outs of Libyan politics.

Quote:
This is the paper of the cpgb, a Leninist cult that has a real fixation on anarchists, and if it ever got even a sniff of power would not hesitate to murder every anarchist it could.

It's not that culty, there's a pretty wide spectrum of opinions among us, I've never really felt any pressure to conform to anyone else's views or do anything I didn't want to. I wouldn't say it we have a fixation on Anarchists either (maybe we do on the AWL though and sometimes the SWP! lol), though the Weekly Worker has occasionally published criticisms of certain actions taken by Anarchists. Members I've spoken to have had opinions on Anarchism ranging from positive to negative (although mostly just dismissive). However we've also had Anarchists published articles and occasionally speak at events, for example our latest one featured a Werner Bonefeld, who seemed to express Libertarian Communist views (i.e. Anti-Statism). He gave an interesting talk on Neo Liberalism and the State.

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/Voice/Bonefeld.MP3
http://libcom.org/tags/werner-bonefeld

There were also a quite anti Leninist pamphlet available on a desk at the meeting by a group called "Escape" (http://www.theyliewedie.org/ressources/biblio/en/Escape_Group_-_Beyond_Kronstadt.html), which I presume was written by either an Anarchist or a Left Communist. I don't know why a "Leninist Cult" would host such a speaker or allow such a pamphlet to be distributed at their event, especially one which "if it ever got even a sniff of power would not hesitate to murder every anarchist it could". It's worth a read though.

Quote:
I don't think there's a really anything wrong with him writing in Weekly Worker published by a group you used to be a member of Darren (at least I thought you were) of 20 - 30 people who are never going to get anywhere near power.

There's nothing wrong with that at all, the paper has published everyone from Stalinists, Trotskyists, Anarchists, Social Democrats and Leninists etc which is why I like the group, there's a sense of openness to different viewpoints that you don't get in a lot of groups. One issue had both a pro Gaddafi article and an anti Gaddafi article about the war in the same edition. Also I think we might be pushing 40 or 50 members by now (I write this with a smirk, admittedly), though we're spread pretty thin, with usually just a few people per city, the majority in London and Manchester.

Speaking for myself, I have no intention of murdering any Anarchists and I spend a lot time reading the articles on this excellent site.

Good vibes to all.

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waslax
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Jan 26 2012 08:02

Werner Bonefeld is not an anarchist. He is a Marxist, just not a traditional or classical Marxist (think: the Marxism of the Second and Third Internationals).

Also, your avatar is going to make people on here think you're ICC.

gypsy
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Jan 26 2012 17:39
Spikymike wrote:
If you read his three part biography (which does have some interesting stuff in it) you can see where these strands come from.

Its that a pdf or has it actually been published?

ta

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bulmer
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Jan 27 2012 05:02
gypsy wrote:
Spikymike wrote:
If you read his three part biography (which does have some interesting stuff in it) you can see where these strands come from.

Its that a pdf or has it actually been published?

ta

That's 3 quite large books that he got published. I've only read the 1st one called 'Geordies wa Mental' and his last book is 'Ghost Dancers'. I forget the name of the 2nd book. Just going on the 1st book, it's a good read.

Spikymike
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Jan 27 2012 16:46

All three of Dave Douglass's books published but not on line as far as I'm aware.

Actually the three are very different. The first is early years/growing up and has some very personal stuff, a few small bits of which chimed with my own experience. The second is most relevant perhaps for explaining Dave's past political influences (good and bad) and worth putting up with his intermitent bragging and the last concentrates on the lead up to and experience of the last great miners strike reflecting Dave's particular involvement as a working miner and NUM official - worth a critical read.

syndicalist
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Jan 27 2012 19:20
Quote:
Also, your avatar is going to make people on here think you're ICC.

Just for the record, the ICC and this person Avitar is the logo of the Third International, for what it's worth.

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playinghob
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Jan 27 2012 22:31

gypsy
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Jan 28 2012 20:52
Spikymike wrote:
All three of Dave Douglass's books published but not on line as far as I'm aware.

Actually the three are very different. The first is early years/growing up and has some very personal stuff, a few small bits of which chimed with my own experience. The second is most relevant perhaps for explaining Dave's past political influences (good and bad) and worth putting up with his intermitent bragging and the last concentrates on the lead up to and experience of the last great miners strike reflecting Dave's particular involvement as a working miner and NUM official - worth a critical read.

Cheers Spikymike and Bulmer for info.