08Bullying Liverpool City Council

No offence intended but petitioning the government is not the way to change the behaviour of bosses.

what did you try, out of interest

I am not sure how long since you resigned, but you could try for constructive dismissal at a industrial tribunal. I feel it is unlikely that a change of law would meaningfully stop bullying at work (although it would be a lever of power) but under current UK laws, bullying can be tackled under stress at work legislation. Health and safety can be a powerful tool, but it needs organisation. There are already campaigns to tackle bullying at work.
www.banbullyingatwork.com
www.bullyonline.org/workbully/
http://www.tuc.org.uk/tuc/rights_bullyatwork.cfm
and even http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/DiscriminationAtWork/DG_10026670

i am really not sure what it is you want to achieve.

I am glad you are well covered. I hope all goes well for you and wish you speedy success. I guess my point is that we currently have a whole host of regulations covering health and safety issues yet almost twice as many people are kill at work than are murdered and almost none of the employers are ever even fined, let alone convicted, it seems the law itself is of little use. The only way to change this is through organisation, only then will we have the power to enforce our demands legally or otherwise.

yes, this is true, and unfortunately this means that there is no quick fix solution.

I hope that you find some satisfactory resolution for your problem - I'm a Council worker as well, and have to deal with bullying managers, and the results of that a lot...

On a more specific note, some instances of workplace bullying can be covered by criminal law, for example under sections 4 or 5 of the public order act, and so a police investigation can take place.

In other words you emailed one group of bosses to complain about another. Ever think of trying to organise support amoung your work collegues to fight this. That is the only way real change can be forced on bosses.

To add to what others have said, often your best bet with bullying is to document stress and depression, firstly because it gives you a clearer case and secondly beause disability discimination laws can be enforced by a decent rep or advocate. Its not a pleasant road to go down though, knowing people who've had to do several days worth of witness statements it can sometimes be more traumatic than its worth. Plus since you'll be using legal aid it always depends on how good or how nice your rep or advocate is and how scrupulous the office are over their responses to funding, Afterall a lot of legal aid type charities get funding on the basis of taking up a number of cases so it doesn;t matter how mnay they win...
Of course also this doesn;t really stop bullying, since it would have had to have gone on a long time to get to that stage anyway. But then i guess thats the point really, since the law only deals with problems after they've dragged on to their conclusion whereas what you need is a workplace culture where bullying isn't tolerated or is dealt with quickly.

na tbh if your beng bullied at work, thats not always going to be possible. Hence why a union offers individual legal representation, because collective action isn;t always an option.

Yeah but attacking others with your superior gasp of communist practice always makes one feel smugly superior. You apologist for the trade unions and upholder of bourgeois law

Hi, why do you suggest writing to your MP? do you think it will do any good? It seems vary unlikely.
I understand that you want to do something about this but I don't really see how the methods you suggest will help, maybe a different approach is needed?

So you're telling us that no one you worked with believed you and your union didn't believe you, yet you think by emailing Bishops, MPs etc that they might believe you. Damn I think I would have sacked you myself if you are that daft!!!

This isn't the Citizens Advice Bureau you know.

You are asking people to sign stupid government petitions and write to MPs on an Anarchist Communist forum. Admin: abuse deleted - NO FLAMING

Depends what you mean by change. Anarchists, or at least the sensible ones, want to get rid of the entire political system rather than reform it. It's a system based a few governing the majority (elections offer us no real choice) and we want a system where people choose reporesentatives who are directly accountable to them and who can be replaced immediately if they do not act as they have been mandated to. Writing to MPs is necessary because they are the kind of people that hold power in this society. We don't usually do it for two reasons: we do not think that asking for help is effective, we're relying on them feeling sorry for us or having a sense of conscience. Secondly they won't help us. Politics is about horse trading favours (which we will not offer) and about personal success (we're ideologically against giving them it and again we don't have much to offer them without simply becoming another liberal pressure group.)

Liam - don't be such a rude dickhead; no matter how wrong Vicky's strategy may or may not be, you don't have to use her presence to try and make yourself look 'clever'. Is this how the great anarchist dismissively deals with other 'fellow' workers with similar strategies in the real world - or are you just putting on a smartarse show for your fellow politicos on here?

I don't know if the union in question here is Unison - but I know that local govt managers in Unison are sometimes provided with legal representation when workers also in Unison bring grievances against them - so even the union pretense of taking the side of the worker is abandoned. It may well be that, in today's workplace that is so lacking in the solidarity needed to fight such things on a autonomous class terrain, that, dubious as they are, these are the only options left open to Vicky.

I do think it would be worth trying to contact other bullying victims of the council and discussing what action you can take to expose and embarass the bullies.

I would like to echo Ret, Liam stop behaving like a dick. Is this how you relate to other people who don't share your political views IRL?

Jason and Ret catch yourself on for fuck sake. The is nothing wrong with taking the piss out of running to MPs and Bishops. If that is being "rude" then to be honest I don't care.

You are all offering advice etc to this person without knowing one thing about her situation and judgin by what she has written so far she is fighting to force one section of goevernment to discipline another section of government.

I am also opposed to giving any employer additional powers to discipline any worker, be that for bullying or any other reason. We all know that giving an employer additional power to discipline employees will lead to those powers being used against workers in struggle. Anti bullying powers would be used against those trying to force scabs out of the work place etc.

So if by being "rude" about this I offended your sensibilities then that was not the intent, however it's about time that we as anarchists stopped being seen as woolly hippies who are nice to everyone. If ideas are completely opposed to what I believe for then I have every right to argue against them and take the piss.

Or should we all just sit down and hold hands let our differences work themself out.

So you oppose Health and Safety laws too then. I (and others )have clearly stated what i think the limitations of Vicky's approach are, whilst you have been content to offer hostile comments, which clearly make you feel oh so radical Come on Liam, this someone coming on here looking for support, going through a really stressful situation, do really think that it is useful to basically slag her off, rather than engage with her and suggest why this might not be the best use of her energy.

It is not like Vicky has come here to argue for state regulation because she likes to wind up LibCommies.

And you are being abusive without knowing anything about her. What she is arguing for is a change of law, to extend the ombudsman's remit to include 'personal matters' so it could investigate cases similar to hers. Whilst this isn't really going to achieve her ends IMO as the ombudsman service largely exists to channel discontent into individualised bureaucratic legal channels thereby dissipating and containing it, through the regulating of the worst excesses. I fail to see how

is a worthwhile use of your energy or likely to promote the libertarian communist politics you profess to hold.

Reading your account of what has happened to you Vicky it is like reading my own story - not just mine but also in part the story of some of the people I work with.

I also saw that stuff about the staff who are off sick from Liverpool City Council, it was in the paper one night last week. How do they get away with it? Is there a special centre where the managers are trained in special ops and take an oath not to uphold the truth?

I will look out for any news of your Tribunal, I hope I haven't missed it.

,Liam, your behaviour here is completely unacceptable. For starters, personal abuse is forbidden in this forum, and this is clearly a person who has suffered a very traumatic experience. Try to have some empathy.

Vicky, that's very interesting information about the sickness absence. I will try and find out that information from my Council.

Ret, in unisons official guide to representation, it states that managers should not be represented in their capacity as managers in grievance proceedings. However, I recognize that this doesn't always apply.