To what extent should we define a communist society

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cantdocartwheels
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Jan 6 2005 16:45
To what extent should we define a communist society

Odd question this, but to what extent should you have a worked out model?

I mean obviously just vaguely saying that a communist society would be egalitarian and offering some hippieish sentiments on ''liberty and creativity'' or some nonsense offers no material gain, and therefore no reason for support. On the other hand, at the other end of the scale having an exactly mapped out vision of the future is a bit barmy, and would also result in failing to understand regional differences and dialectical mechanisms, meaning that you would be attempting to impose your ''vision'' on society, which would make you a nutter or a vanguardist or most likely both.

It also has the draw back that you'd be imahining the organs with which a post-revolutionary society would be organised before the revolution, so you'd be attemoting to run society as the revolutionary organisation, which wopuld be a flawed approach for all sorts of reasons.

Also it suffers from the problem of idealism, of abstracting the material day to day gains of the working class from a societal model. Which would obviosuly not be a good thing at all.

So when you define a workers council in theory or propaganda, and we look at historical experience to see how it could organise itself and how local a council is and where it relates to the workplace and community organisations that provide the base of its organisation. How far should you go in terms of relating this question to theory and propaganda?

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Jan 6 2005 16:52

I think that imagining a future society is something that falls within the realsm of art, literature, poetry, etc -- it's a task you perform in order to give your dreams a voice and not something you're trying to sell people as part of a political programme; because the future will always turn out different to what you think.

That's not to say you can't make analyses of past experiences, but these are only of the past. And that's not to say that schemes of future society can't provide opportunities for propaganda -- just that we shouldn't expect any such theories to be scientific.

Caiman del Barrio
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Jan 6 2005 18:11

Well, the best answer to any question relating to the specifics of an anarchist society is "I wouldn't dictate an answer to anyone. It would be agreed co-operatively."

It's an awesome cop out and makes people feel important like. Kinda like Trotsykism.

Seriously though, the only specifics which I would be interested in defining are those that define an anarcho-communist society. Anything more is kinda...not up to me.

redyred
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Jan 6 2005 20:16
Lazlo_Woodbine wrote:
I think that imagining a future society is something that falls within the realsm of art, literature, poetry, etc -- it's a task you perform in order to give your dreams a voice and not something you're trying to sell people as part of a political programme; because the future will always turn out different to what you think.

Oy Lazlo he said communist society not hippy dreamland.

To answer the question though well obviously the whole ownership and control of means of production by the working class blah blah. I think we can safely say that this will be based around workers' councils of some sort. This is simply from the historical fact that these emerged in 20th century workers' revolutions and also that it is clear in retrospect that socialism can be achieved via a system of councils.

But I guess also the fact that no-one predicted the emergence of workers' councils beforehand does emphasise the "wait and see" aspect of revolutionary politics. I'd even go as far as to say it's likely that there would be new "discoveries" of crucial features of communist society in future revolutions.

I think on the whole the what its important to do is to theorise and become as knowledgeable as possible about the things we canpredict such as soviets and mutual aid - what they are, how they would work - mainly through study of past revolutions, but on the other hand not speculate too far into the unknown.

lucy82
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Jan 6 2005 20:22
Quote:
Oy Lazlo he said communist society not hippy dreamland.

hee hee, funny. i read your post Lazlo and i was betting on who would be the first person to say "hippy dreamland" and absolutely amazingly, I was right.

grin

Joe Hill
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Jan 7 2005 01:39

Also, bringing us back to ground, we are where we are in reality, people are getting killed daily and generally fucked. And work is required.

Love. etc xx

(PS Hippiedreamland is where it's at really)

Anarch
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Jan 7 2005 02:43

I think that it is important to establish very firmly the outline of a communist society, direct democracy and ...communism smile

I think that as long as these two ideas are shared the minute specifics seem irrelevant as we can not decide them without a greater amount of people siding with lib communist ideals. That is not to say that it is not helpful to think about how communities could function and some theoretical work on how to practically implement federalsim between communities would maybe be good. But I dont see the help in mapping out or commieland just yet.

And I think some Anarchist once said that the only thing that the state should do would be to abolish the inheritance law, and I think that we should add the abolishment of hippies to that list.

JK wink I love you patchouli ridden freaks