Thought experiment - riots in france

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Nick Durie
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Nov 8 2005 19:13
Thought experiment - riots in france

Here's a tought for size - the paris riots thread hasn't really allowed for much analysis, but as this is the biggest 'event' in the European class struggle for a wee while, and I'm not saying that from some crude 'they're rioting, we're winning' Socialist Voice type perspecti, just that it is an event of great magnitude, we had better startthinking about it together.

So to start things off in some way here is one perspective (which I don't really agree with, but which I'm positing to promote discussion).

-----Now that lots of disadvantaged, socially excluded people are rioting in towns and cities across France our task is to be in those communities doing whatever we can to broaden the riots, to encourage people to leave the banlieus amd start trashing Paris. Socialists should be setting up organisations to try and push a more directly poliitical assault on the civil administration and police in France. We should be trying to push the police out of our communities in an organised fashion and should be defying curfews by setting up barricades and encouraging people to take on the police by whatever means at their disposal, while at the same time removing the provision of services from the civil authorities and replacing it with the community etc.-------

Ok so you get the gist of this perspective (which for Revol and the rest of the trolls' benefit i don't hold) and I could go on but I'm sure you could fil in the blanks.

It just sort of concerns me that on the UK's number one communist networking tool there wasn't an immediate analysis made publically by anyone about whether or not we should be doing something about these developments, e.g. the merits or otherwise about getting the next flight to Paris etc..

Questionauthority
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Nov 8 2005 20:09

I was kind of under the impression these riots were being in a way co-ordinated by some Muslim extremists, of which I'm sure there are plenty in france. Thats not to say a lot of disenfranchised youth who have had to deal with shit lives in these banilieus have been drawn to these riots under non religious reasons. I may sound like a naieve dick but just not sure how much of the media to believe and what this spreading of violence is like... There are a lot of right wing fucks in France as well and they could also very possibly be involved in starting a few fires in small towns to stoke and muslim and anti north african sentiment....

Im just confused bout these riots in general

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Lazy Riser
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Nov 8 2005 22:16

Hi

Unlike Jack, I'm not willing to make any sacrifices for the French rioters, but that counts in their favour in my book. I certainly think they should be encouraged, especially from the safe distance of my comfy chair.

What is the prevailing view of the French working class? Perhaps some trusted French comrades would enlighten us.

I must say, I'm somewhat surprised at the extreme poverty visited upon these people by the French bourgeoisie. What model of social provision is it they so proudly defend? Could this happen in Norway? I’m not so sure.

I’m thinking this is this what Castoriadis meant by “barbarism”. Riots are the perfect compliment to right wing legislatures. At the heart of this unrest lies Franco-German market-Stalinist economic policy, and it’s effect on the money supply and the real incomes of the poorest sections of the French working class.

Euro-scepticism is all that separates the Franco-German rightists from our own Tories. If only they had shared our own rightists' xenophobia, they might have seen just how dangerous monetary union is. France’s reaction is certainly shaped by EU rules on public spending and subsidy.

And look at the French middle class reaction. It’s absurd that this takes place against the backdrop of France’s renowned 35-hour week leisure economy. “Hello Laziness”, indeed. I’ll certainly be taking Corinne Maier with an extra pinch of salt from now on.

Capital is failing us everywhere and violent flashpoints are inevitable and positive. Jack, what social policy proposal do you make in relation to these events? Universal citizen’s income and professional self-management?

Love

LR

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oisleep
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Nov 8 2005 23:00

poor little jack, waiting around for the perfect fight, because life's like that, nice and neat

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oisleep
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Nov 8 2005 23:11

one day, that perfect fight will come eh

who said they support them unconditionally, not i

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oisleep
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Nov 8 2005 23:28
Jack wrote:
Where exactly have I said or even implied I'm 'waiting for the perfect fight'? Please back that up.

you havn't said it, but it's implied by your disdain for any form of action anywhere by anybody, that info is clear to see from anyone reading these boards

anyone doing anything at g8, anyone doing something to stop the closure of a bus station involving being on it's roof for more than a day (oh the irony), anyone doing anything environmental (again, oh the irony), any kind of action against police, whether in paris or outside whetherspoons, regardless of the original fuckwitted reason for the incident, you said you wouldn't adopt the type of protest by the bus station rooft top protestors, as it would get in the way of your job, it's not a massive leap then to assume you'd never engage in anything like secondary (or even primary) strike action, as it get in the way of your job and perhaps stop you buying "stuff", you talk from the front and lead from the back on most issues

all these things suggest to me, and i may well be wrong, that you're waiting for the perfect fight before you do anything, and that in itself gives you a perfect reason for doing nothing, nothing but criticise that is

i have all the same reservations that you do about a lot of these areas, it's not your actual anlaysis that i don't like it's your high minded, mighty, pretentious, self righteous, know it all, po faced disdain that you treat all around you who happen to view things not exactly the same as you do, you're no better than those mad islamists who think that everyone apart from themselves should be killed as only they have the right and pure way

you keep on fetishing over the perfect fight if you like, but the only place that'll ever happen is in your head

Mike Harman
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Nov 8 2005 23:32

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oisleep
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Nov 8 2005 23:35

that's a fair point catch..

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Lazy Riser
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Nov 8 2005 23:38

Hi

The rioters are the Left of Capital. Jack's right not to support them. I expect the ICC will join him in condemnation, as will Cohn-Bendit. I like to get a Bendit in when I can.

Marie Antoinette wrote:
Let them eat cake.
Daniel Cohn-Bendit wrote:
No one has dared tell the French left that we live in a world of market forces.
Corinne Maier wrote:
Let them eat cake.

Serves them right for shooting sparrows. Can we ban irony?

LR

Mike Harman
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Nov 8 2005 23:44
Quote:
ere's a tought for size - the paris riots thread hasn't really allowed for much analysis, but as this is the biggest 'event' in the European class struggle for a wee while, and I'm not saying that from some crude 'they're rioting, we're winning' Socialist Voice type perspecti, just that it is an event of great magnitude, we had better startthinking about it together.

Nick, my own view on this is that from our point of view we should try to understand these events as much as possible. That's incredibly difficult when much of the news reporting is very superficial. Most importantly it'd be useful to locate primary sources for what's going on. Very little of that has been forthcoming from either mainstream or left wing/independent/anarcho sources so far.

From my point of view, what's unusual about it is how it has continued to spread geographically (both into smaller towns, and across national boundaries) - something that rarely happens, and that it's continued to escalate in intensity in Paris (at least until last night). The important thing in terms of this is to look at the composition of the rioters (both within Paris, and across France), and what networks of communication, if any, have been set up. Shame my French is so shit.

There have been murmerings of a metro strike in Paris - presumably on H&S grounds - anything news relating to that would be useful.

Nick Durie
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Nov 8 2005 23:55

guys give jack a break - yes he's being a pretentious tosser and arguing with posts that nobody has actually made and yes he's derailing a thread but we know he does this. he's well meaning enough. he's not revol.

Very interesting to hear about the metro strike catch... I appreciate a lot of people find the comparison crass but it's not like this hasn't happened before. i think we should be keeping a very close eye on events there especially because of France's massive role in the world economy and her place in the forthcoming world war at the helm of the EU.

Mike Harman
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Nov 9 2005 00:00

there hasn't actually been a strike afaik:

Quote:

Thursday November 3 - Traffic was halted on the RER B suburban commuter line which links Paris to Charles de Gaulle airport after unions called for a strike. Rioters attacked two trains overnight at the Le Blanc-Mesnil station, forced a conductor from one train and broke windows, the SNCF rail authority said.

http://www.babnet.net/en_detail.asp?id=1641

Nick Durie
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Nov 9 2005 00:09

doesn't necessarily mean that they believe it jack. Sometimes situations arise where a wee white lie is an interesting propaganda opportunity. For instance i don't believe that tenant power caused the GHA to backtrack on its plans to scrap nightime concierge, altho it was a factor.

Every tenant I speak to however, at least where i think it will wash, i will say it was the major factor, afterall I don't actually know it wasn't. At this stage in the class war we need good news stories.

That said that pamphlet wasn't the best, but you certainly didn't explain the context behind your comments, and if you had then perhaps others might have been a little less likely to fail to see your side of the argument.

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Nov 9 2005 07:06
Jack wrote:

No I'm not. This time. The derail came from oisleeps attack on me, after I mocked the ridiculous and deeply embarassing 'analysis' of the riots made by most anarchists.

granted, however you started an attack on something other people have said elsewhere, i.e. not on this thread

what did that add to the discourse attempted on this thread by nick?

nada

you latch on to something you don't like and permeate all discussions with it, regardless of whether it is relevant or not to the discussion in hand, instead of actually dealing with the topic in hand, you just revert back to bitching at things that no one on this thread has actually said, why not deal with what's said here rather than what someone wrote on urban75 confused

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Nov 9 2005 08:57

i agree, why fly to paris when eurostar is much more convenient!

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jef costello
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Nov 9 2005 11:52

Isn't it possible that the rioting has several causes?

Its obvious Sarkozy provoked a conflict, therefore he felt he had something to gain. Presumably that is greater police powers and the cowing of the people on the estates. I reckon French anarchos should get out there to make sure that islamists and 'community leaders' don't use this for their own benefit. Although there seems to be little evidence of that, its what seems to happen here, some prick with the right coloured skin claims to be a representative of the community and gets himself a nice pay off.

The riots will stop, they are making enough arrests, it might take as long as a month but they will stop unless this turns into a revolution, which is unlikely. I think it would be a good thing if anarchists went there and discussed anarchism and anti-authoritarianism.

BTW LR French people are only lazy because they realise that they are being robbed of the fruits of their labour. Also the 35 hour week would create more jobs and would lead to fewer modern day servants working cash in hand for those poor pressed 'cash rich time poor' people.

RedCelt
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Nov 9 2005 14:30

It's correct to support the rioters. To find reasons not to is just the kind of splitting hairs timewasting that stops any progress. The state spends little time splitting hairs, it knows it's interests and acts coldly to carry them through to the result it wants. Of course there may be a reactionary Islamic element to the rioting but it is I think the most significant event in Europe for the struggle for a while and must be utilised.

red n black star

petey
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Nov 9 2005 16:59
Jack wrote:
No, as an anarchist, I see my duty as being to abandon all critical faculty, and instead get a huge erection at the sight of people (often not even white!) burning cars and fighting the police, and thus support them totally and uncritically with little to no idea or analysis as to what is going on.

me too! twisted

ticking_fool
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Nov 9 2005 17:04
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No, as an anarchist, I see my duty as being to abandon all critical faculty, and instead get a huge erection at the sight of people (often not even white!) burning cars and fighting the police

I cannot express how big my erection is about these riots - I'm getting phone calls from air traffic control about it, the met office is saying that it's interfering with weather patterns. This is exciting - a fairly spontaneous outbreak of class anger in response to a specific provocation is sustaining itself and spreading. How is that not fucking exciting? To have kept going this long there must be some organisation developing behind this which might, with any luck, make itself felt after the violence has ended. It might be coopted, or it might just be smashed, but it has to be there.

Yeah, of course anyone that leapt on a plane now to get some riot action would be a dick, but that doesn't mean that we should just sit back and 'engage our critical faculties' - some of us can walk and think at the same time. That Class War leaflet was crap (mostly because it wasn't funny when it thought it was), but what it was trying to do is essential - we have to be interpreting this and getting that out in the face of what's passing for reporting on this and if that means declaring support for something despite its ambiguities then that's fine by me.

Sometimes sitting on the fence is not engaging your critical faculties, it's refusing to engage at all.

petey
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Nov 9 2005 18:57
ticking_fool wrote:
class anger

is that what it is?

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oisleep
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Nov 9 2005 18:58

fool by name, but not by nature

good post ticking fool 8)

ticking_fool
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Nov 9 2005 19:31
Quote:
ticking_fool wrote:

class anger

is that what it is?

Looks that way. It doesn't seem to be inter-community like the stuff in Birmingham a few weeks ago, the main provocation seems to be the more or less permanent stationing of riot police in 'difficult' areas and the main targets seem to be the police (I'd guess that some of the car burnings are used to attract coppers who then get attacked - I don't know though, we'll maybe find out in the weeks and months to come). We shouldn't ignore the race element, but these people have been under attack as working class people and they're fighting back as working class people - all this bollocks about muslim fundamentalism is just that, bollocks. The economic (ie class) realities of their lives underlie this outburst of violence and the cultural position they're fighting back from is not strictly racialised or religious, it's as an excluded group (buers) - it's a class position.

I don't speak French, so I'm relying on translated sources and any background I can find in English, but this does look to have a pretty conscious class basis.

ticking_fool
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Nov 9 2005 19:34
Quote:
good post ticking fool

Don't, it'll go to my head, and if I've got to wander around with a swollen head as well as this ginormous erection I don't know how I'll cope.

petey
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Nov 9 2005 20:00
ticking_fool wrote:
Quote:
ticking_fool wrote:

class anger

is that what it is?

Looks that way. It doesn't seem to be inter-community like the stuff in Birmingham a few weeks ago, the main provocation seems to be the more or less permanent stationing of riot police in 'difficult' areas and the main targets seem to be the police (I'd guess that some of the car burnings are used to attract coppers who then get attacked - I don't know though, we'll maybe find out in the weeks and months to come). We shouldn't ignore the race element, but these people have been under attack as working class people and they're fighting back as working class people - all this bollocks about muslim fundamentalism is just that, bollocks.

actually i think class is the largest factor, though i have read (WHERE ARE MY FUCKING LINKS WHEN I NEED THEM) that there has been some little bit of jewish-thug-and-islamic-thus violence in france, with both communities being descended from maghreb immigrants, and i wonder if some of this is going on under what i'm seeing on television. and the rest of the working class isn't hopping into action etc.

but understanding the violence isn't lionizing it i hope? as in seattle lots of perfectly innocent people are getting their livelihoods destroyed, and that's not OK.

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Nov 9 2005 21:32
ticking_fool wrote:
the main provocation seems to be the more or less permanent stationing of riot police in 'difficult' areas and the main targets seem to be the police (I'd guess that some of the car burnings are used to attract coppers who then get attacked -

You seem to know a lot for someone who doesn't speak french, where are you getting info from? As far as I can tell this was triggered when Sarkozy sent CRS into hte estates after he got a nasty reception in one, two days later a few kids ran the wrong way from those paramiliatary fucks and died. Sarkozy was looking for a fight. (sorry if I'm repeating myself but there are quite a few threads on this and I lose track)

baboon
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Nov 14 2005 12:10

The riots in the French suburbs, which have been going on at a lower level for some two or three years now, have two fundamental explanations the deepening crisis of capitalism, in this particular case the weight of unemployment and its growing decompostion and irrationality

There is nothing positive in these riots. On the contrary, they express a hopeless despair and a weakness in the class struggle which only the bourgeoisie can profit from.

You armchair cheerleaders can wallow in your abstract "support" but what are you supporting? The destruction of local shops, primary schools and workers' cars (which the insurance companies will pay out peanuts for). The state will profit from this by using this occassion to strengthen itself and will have a free hand in the face of the divisive nature of the riots. The youth have responded to constant intimidation, degeneration and decay but in a way that poses no serious threat to the state. Riots can never be an adequate response to the challenges facing the working class. The only thing that will happen here is that the ghettos will become even more of a prison and weapon of the bourgeoisie in its overall attack on the working class. It was interesting that the only demonstration that the bourgeoisie allowed in Paris over the weekend was an anti-racist one.

wreck2
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Nov 14 2005 16:26

Hi Y'all,

This is my first post, be kind wink - I've just returned from France after seeing a little bit of what is going on, overall i thought the events are really positive and inspiring.

The open confrontations with the police are rare, mostly its little groups gathering to burn cars, or other bigger targets, and then disappear. Although shots have been fired after ambushing the police, more people are seeking to prevent contact, as the cops are crazy lunatics.

In the city there was a tense atmosphere, from the moment i got off the train there were cops everywhere; bins on fire in the centre of town. i got stopped and searched everyday in the estates. The cops were really edgy, and reached for their pistols constantly. When i was searched, people passing intervened everytime to shout (in french) "Police everywhere, justice nowhere"

The CRS (riot cops) patrol all day & night like an occupying army, the media have stopped reporting the tally of cars burnt as it was being likened to a 'telethon' by french politicians. The situation is still completely out of control. Over 300 towns/cities are involved.

There have been outbreaks which people have disliked; - an old peoples home was attacked, a journalist killed, but the situation is very difficult. Many of the rioters are 12-16, reacting against predjuice in uncontrollable, 'mis'-directed ways. But the experience they have is real, and if their rage is helpless, it is an indication of how much is wrong here in these neighbourhoods.

Paris is completely locked down by the cops, although actions are happening. But still the rest of the country is aflame, and actions have spread into Belgium and Germany. Despite the media smears the targets are social, - job agencies, banks, estate agents, government offices, police stations, etc. and also - schools, factories, chain stores, supermarkets, shopping malls. The riots are also being taken up in France by all those who are sick of capitalist system. It has nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism or racial seperatism. It is ghetto people and all those who sympathise with the situation. It is a generalised social clash fighting back against the commodity market.

redtwister
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Nov 14 2005 18:04

Except for Wreck 2's comments, does anyone have any actual information?

I have read a recent piece by Boris Kagarlitsky on Z Net that is somewhat ok, at least he gives a few details. First of all, many of the rioters are Black North Africans, not just of Arab descent, an some are also southeast Asian (Vietnamese, Cambodian) descent. Also, it seems that most of the young people are not immigrants, but first or second generation, speak French as their first language, and may or may not be particularly religious. Maybe a bit more like the Brixton rioters of the 1980's or second and third generation Indian and Pakistani descended Brits, or like many Puerto Ricans or Chicanos here in the US.

So it would seem that the Islamist angle is largely a media scare to justify a certain level of aggression and to discredit the young rioters.

There seems to be plenty of basis for anger, between government policies and long-standing racism, as the Socialist Party carried out the mere verbal threats of Le Pen in attacking immigrants and descendants of immigrants.

Baboon's post is a potent mix of good sense and sectarianism...

baboon wrote:
The riots in the French suburbs, which have been going on at a lower level for some two or three years now, have two fundamental explanations: the deepening crisis of capitalism, in this particular case the weight of unemployment and its growing decompostion and irrationality

There is nothing positive in these riots. On the contrary, they express a hopeless despair and a weakness in the class struggle which only the bourgeoisie can profit from.

The first sentence is partially correct (one ought to add the specifically racist targeting of immigrants as the cause of unemployment, of increasing racist attacks by poice and fascoid elements), and the second sentence is also correct. However, in saying that there is nothing positive, Baboon sees a problem and goes on to make an analysis that basically implies disowning these riots because they will just strengthen the state.

That there is nothing positive is fine. Rage and destruction and negation is a good start. I couldn't give fuck all for the local shops and schools, such complaining is defense of petty property and the state. Even more so, if all that happens is that people take it, take the shit, day in and day out, that is the bad thing that strengthens the state and capital, that makes them think they can act with impunity. Burnt cars are even far less important than the content of these riots. What's the matter, workers won't be able to get to work on time to produce more value?

Should we have a vote? Should a minority be forced to wait for everyone else to act? Revolution is not a question of democracy, and democats (like the SWP, Laborites, etc.) can indeed decry these riots, but anarchists and communists should not.

Quote:
You armchair cheerleaders can wallow in your abstract "support" but what are you supporting? The destruction of local shops, primary schools and workers' cars (which the insurance companies will pay out peanuts for). The state will profit from this by using this occassion to strengthen itself and will have a free hand in the face of the divisive nature of the riots. The youth have responded to constant intimidation, degeneration and decay but in a way that poses no serious threat to the state. Riots can never be an adequate response to the challenges facing the working class. The only thing that will happen here is that the ghettos will become even more of a prison and weapon of the bourgeoisie in its overall attack on the working class. It was interesting that the only demonstration that the bourgeoisie allowed in Paris over the weekend was an anti-racist one.

Baboon is correct that this kind of struggle indicates the weaknesses, the disorganization, of the working class in the current moment. I would go further: it shows the abscence, the real abscence, of a working class as a body of struggle, not merely as a sociological agglomeration of wage-slaves. Baboon is correct that riots in themselves are not a sufficient threat to the state, but there is no guarantee that the state strengthens itself after this, esp as it has dragged on for weeks. this is not a one night stand. Nor is it clear that such struggles do not embolden people to do more, to demand more organization, to think about what we need to do to understand and act together. These struggles are both all we have, and what is absolutely necessary, not in themselves, but as a predicate to finding our way our of the long, dark night of the last 30 years.

So do we then throw our hands up that this is not sufficient? That we codemn all struggles which are not adequate according to our standards? No, that is what is sectarian and narrow in these comments. Rather, we have a responsibility to see if we can provide active support and solidarity, not by offering to help out, but by promoting first and foremost an analysis of the events, a defense of them (if appropriate, which I believe it is here), a counter-attack on the media lies and censorship, and if possible coordinated action along these lines across boundaries, and in a way that allows people to participate collectively at whatever level their resources make possible.

chris

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Steven.
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Nov 14 2005 18:27

Wreck2 - fucking excellent and interesting post, cheers.

redtwister, agree with most of your post, except this:

redtwister wrote:
Burnt cars are even far less important than the content of these riots. What's the matter, workers won't be able to get to work on time to produce more value?

I think that's a silly line to take. I mean firstly the rioters will make other workers turn against them if they attack other workers' property (and race relations in France are very fucked as it is), and secondly for an average person, losing a car is a big deal, and a huge financial expense. It's now what 7,000 people who have lost them, each one maybe being 3-6 months wages? I think your last sentence trivialises what could be a very significant loss.

redtwister
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Nov 14 2005 19:14
John. wrote:
Wreck2 - fucking excellent and interesting post, cheers.

redtwister, agree with most of your post, except this:

redtwister wrote:
Burnt cars are even far less important than the content of these riots. What's the matter, workers won't be able to get to work on time to produce more value?

I think that's a silly line to take. I mean firstly the rioters will make other workers turn against them if they attack other workers' property (and race relations in France are very fucked as it is), and secondly for an average person, losing a car is a big deal, and a huge financial expense. It's now what 7,000 people who have lost them, each one maybe being 3-6 months wages? I think your last sentence trivialises what could be a very significant loss.

I understand John and it is a big loss for many workers, and as I need the car to get to work and get my kid to school and to buy groceries, I would intitialy be pissed too. But... most days I am too fucking pissed at needing a car, that I can't get a decent school for my kid nearby and that because public trans is so fucked that I need a car to get to work or to the grocery store, and oh yeah, that I fucking have to go do wage labor, that I pretty much realize that what i hate is the car and everything it represents.

If we sit here and go 'but they're attacking workers' personal property, then let's add in that they attacked fireman (and for some, cops are workers too, though if you think that, well...) who are 'workers', although in this case they are working as part of the state, as firemen (in Chicago when i was a high school student, the firemen showd up at a strike and blocked the cops and turned their hoses on the cops in a pitched battle defending the newspaper workers on strike, not a very 'fireman' thing to do), then we're gonna end up standing on the wrong side, playing the conservative role, the petty property owner role, the managers of social struggles. Our task isn't to tell people what to do, but to provide political clarity, insight, to give direction to the thrust so its does the most damage to this society. otherwise, if we are not doing that, then we should stay the hell out of the way instead of telling to 'simmer down now'.

Cars and what they cost workers are a pretty irrelevant matter compared to this. Do you think there will be a revolution without burning some cars, including 'workers' cars? Might this turn some 'workers' off? Yes. But on the other hand, it might turn other on, have other, positive effects as well, just like the riots here in the 60's and 70's changed the way people thought, including white workers and did not merely 'scare' them, the official ideology of the white, racist workerist Left (unlike the white liberal-racist Left, which merely glorified the riots ith no critique of their limits and with all kinds of racial patronizing and aping.)

Anyway, my point being is that there is no simple "workers' car burning = bad" equation that we can automatically make, nor can we make an automatic equation as to its impact. It does demand that we ask the question what the role of revolutionaries is; what kind of organization is taking shape (I do not mean what kind of sect, either), if any; what is the actual content of this struggle; what are its limits (baboon is already correctly trying to do that, but maybe without recognizing that 2 weeks is a really long time and that that may indicate something really significant!)

cheers,

chris

Mike Harman
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Nov 14 2005 20:10

I've seen a couple of interviews with rioters, where one has burned his friend's/neighbour's car, and the friend is standing next to him. In both cases the car owner was initially furious, but was either sympathetic or already involved in the rioting in general, and had calmed down in a matter of a few hours.

Obviously that won't generalise across the board, but there've been comments by rioters where they've said they know it's bad to burn their friends' cars, but they don't see an alternative. There's also the possibility that the cars are insured, or that car-loans may be written off en-masse for cars burnt in the rioting - maybe not much of a possibility but you never know.

Same with schools - if there's 40% unemployment then the schools are doing very little apart from keeping 12-16 year olds off the street/dole for another four years. At least one of the schools I went to would have been one of the first targets if there'd been a riot in my home town.