The Welfare State

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May 2 2005 18:04
The Welfare State

Was just wondering what people think about the welfare state? smile

Refused's picture
Joined: 28-09-04
May 2 2005 18:20

Anything in particular about it??!

Joined: 26-09-03
May 2 2005 18:55

It's one of those things that it's pointless to be 'for' or 'against'. The real picture is that Welfare has been created by Liberals, Conservatives and labour in order to make the UK working class better able to stand wage slavery -- but they only did so because we threatened to knock the whole thing down.

So it's a product of our struggle and exists to do lots of useful thing. It's also been created to make us dependent on the state and to make us see it as beneficial. Lots of these and similar institutions were created by co-opting independent initiatives of self-help and co-opting the energy that makes people do these co-operative things.

As neo-liberalism really shows its teech, many of these comforts are being taken away fromus. We'll be able to keep only what we can fight for.

Joined: 16-06-04
May 3 2005 12:50

This is why neoliberals are stupid. Everybody likes the welfare state, and it creates the illusion of a caring, sharing government that you'd like to have round for tea. So the neoliberals decide to start hacking away at benefits and public services in an attempt to get everyone working and fuelling the economy. Surely the most effective way to keep people under control is to pretend to be nice, to not even appear to be in control. Labour are clearly not having a word of this, so now we have council tax increases, ASBOs, ID cards, armed police, privatised hospitals, illegal wars, detention of asylum seekers, draconian anti-terrorism laws and CCTV. So now everyone hates the government. Smart move Tony.

Still, by being such a bastard he's only making the job of the anarchists easier- a lot of the time i think he's on our side, acting as a willing sacrificial lamb for the sake of the revolution.

Joined: 23-01-04
May 3 2005 15:16

A Tory i used to know used to chastise the welfare state because it made people lazy and 'work-shy' (love that phrase), i kept telling him that without the welfare state, the system his party adores would have come crashing down by now, its both a buttress to the existing system and a cost for it, like the wage or pensions and so forth. Its a necessary evil for the capitalist system to allow, since without it you'd have a pretty unhealthy workforce that would be incapable of efficient work, hence allowing the existing workforce to become complacent about their work and probably liable to take more risks and be less obedient towards their boss and work.

I doubt the whole of the welfare state will ever be done away with simply because of its importance in maintaining the system, what will probably happen is that it will be enforced and re-developed if working class struggle gets to the point where its entirely necessary to give some concessions, like if the tory party gets in and screws the people over many will turn to labour in the vain hope theyll be nicer, in this way it comes across as a cycle thing which needs to be undermined completely. This idea that there is only two clear ways, one being:free trade, tax cuts, business incentives, privatised hospitals and schools and the other being:state intervention, welfare, strong unions, nationalisation. Too many people believe that this is the height of possibilities, this supposed polar opossite of choices is constantly played out in any debate between politicians and tv audiences on programmes like question time and its largely a manufactured conflict.