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"Free all prisoners"

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Fall Back's picture
Fall Back
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Oct 23 2006 16:07
"Free all prisoners"

Come on then, someone please justify this.

pingtiao's picture
pingtiao
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Oct 23 2006 16:26

Come on them? Why- to celebrate their release confused

Jacques Roux's picture
Jacques Roux
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Oct 23 2006 16:29

i can see the headlines now...

Quote:
Mass ex-con bukkake ends in tears!

Lazy Riser's picture
Lazy Riser
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Oct 23 2006 17:15

Hi

Quote:
Come on then, someone please justify this.

You first. Are you against the slogan "Free all prisoners"?. I've always thought it was a bit loopy myself, but seeing as most of my conversations are with "everyday" working class people rather than politicos, I've never needed to have a well thought out case.

I think if you reject it the obvious charge would be that you're thinking like a bourgeois. That is to say, to fail to assert that capitalism is unjust in its totality.

I think you’re mildly aroused about this sort of stuff, Jack. Me too. Do you own a meat cleaver? I mean perhaps when they say “free” they mean free to have Jack to hunt down, re-try and then dispense his unique brand of justice upon them.

Love

LR

Tacks's picture
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Oct 23 2006 17:29

i can't justify it and i don't support it. The argument is however, that prisoners, one and all are a product of this corrupt and corrupting society and are all innoccent really.

Historically, prisoners have often been set free in rebellions and revolts, i'd be interested if anyone cleverer than me could tell us what that has worked like.

I suppose the slogan comes from times of revolutionary upsurge when the majority of prisoners are political.

JoeMaguire's picture
JoeMaguire
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Oct 23 2006 17:30

Other than anti socials criminals, most crime is a consequence of productive relations. Punishing anti-social types can range from the severe to simply not allowing them to access certain services, or exclusion from the community in general.

'Free all prisoners', is problematic because while functioning prisons shouldnt exist, neither should murderers, rapists etc be allowed to roam free.

posi
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Oct 23 2006 17:33

I also guess that crimes like child abuse and rape are further up the public conciousness than they previous were... and so when I hear the slogan, I think 'fuck, they want to let the nonces out...'. Perhaps in the past, people's minds more naturally turned to petty theft, despoiling his lordship's quail farm, or whatever.

In any case, it's a stupid slogan.

Lazy Riser's picture
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Oct 23 2006 17:56

Hi

So there you go Jack. No case to answer. Unless it's shock-art, I mean, we're all prisoners in a way. Ho ho.

Love

LR

Tacks's picture
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Oct 23 2006 17:57

Not as bad as 'the state is the only terrorist' which is njot only terrible politics, but also staggeringly wrong on a straightforward, apolitical reading.

Lazy Riser's picture
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Oct 23 2006 17:59

Hi

It's this bizarre habit of casting reality as a farce that only political analysis can penetrate. Showing that situationism is just a footnote to Marxism, as revol68 points out occasionally.

Love

LR

Tacks's picture
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Oct 23 2006 17:59
Jack wrote:
You could have just edit/fixed the post. angry

could a mod edit it back to 'come on them' please, and post an illustration.

Refused's picture
Refused
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Oct 23 2006 18:04

Ripped off Ash.

madashell's picture
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Oct 23 2006 18:12
october_lost wrote:
while functioning prisons shouldnt exist, neither should murderers, rapists etc be allowed to roam free.

Eh? How does that work then?

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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Oct 23 2006 18:13

neck shots black bloc

Refused's picture
Refused
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Oct 23 2006 18:18

Punishment beatings.

madashell's picture
madashell
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Oct 23 2006 18:20

Ah, fair enough, I thought he meant something mad or over the top.

JoeMaguire's picture
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Oct 23 2006 19:05

punishment is difficult, because it would have to be collectively decided, so asking what myself or yourself thinks of x, y or z is a bit of a none starter, because that is only one equation of possible many.

If people cant be rehabilitated and excluding them caused issues on other communities, then punishment is the last alternative that I can see.

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Oct 23 2006 19:35

In his Year One of the Russian Revolution, Serge makes some interesting observations on what happened to prisoners and criminal elements in the early days of the insurrection.

The court system mostly dissovled of itself, apart from some few the Red Guard actively shut down. Interestingly, the "justices of the peace" were allowed to continue functioning, as this was a "popular" system.

Serge describes a "constant procession to Smolny of arrested miscreants, functionaries, officers, looters and thieves". The first justice commissions appear to have mainly staffed by Bolsheviks but this was quickly expanded into a whole series of tribunals composed mainly of workers. The main concern was the development of banditry.

"In the prisons, the common law criminals had a meeting and presented a petition asking that they be given the chance of a new life. Most of them were released, many of them to return inside in no time. Formal tribunals were not organised until later: these were constituted from delegates to the Petrograd Soviet, each assisted by two workers drawn from the lists of the factory committees."

The attitude of the proletariat seems clear from these episodes. Mercy is given to those less dangerous criminals who show the ability to adapt to the new order. But the proletariat has absolutely no patience for criminality and dealt with infractions against the new order rather harshly.

Tacks's picture
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Oct 23 2006 20:02

history, yeah, that kind of thing is what i was after.

(still sounds like a shit set up to me though)

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Oct 23 2006 20:06

In what way is it shit Tacks?

I also vaguely recall reading or hearing about workers putting up notices saying "Thieves Beware!" in the 19th Century (Paris Commune I think).

Tacks's picture
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Oct 23 2006 20:19

i don't trust serge for shit, anyone who can bend their politics that much...

so i don't trust his assertion that these things became autonomous of bolshevism.

But these are baseless prejudices, so don't call me up on them ok? grin

raw
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Oct 23 2006 20:25

whats wrong with "free all prisoners" ? I mean I know it doesn't really explain much but I would interpret that somehow as people shouldn't be in prison. You can go further and try and detach the prisoner and what they may or may not have done and the actual role of prison in a capitalist society. It has nothing to do with crime or stopping criminals but disciplining and imposing work on insubordinate stratas of society. The crime that was committed is secondary to this process.

I mean why are there 2.5 million americans in prison? And why now? And why is the prison population in the UK reaching breaking point? Not because people are being punished more now (as I think people were punished more back in the day i.e. torture) but because the growing lumpenisation caused by the smashing of working class power (politically composed class power) has led to a more uncontrollable insubordination which manifests itself in "crime".

raw

Lazy Riser's picture
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Oct 23 2006 22:44

Hi raw

Quote:
I mean why are there 2.5 million americans in prison?

Current thinking is that the yanks and the Brits are just a bit tasty compared to the Europeans.

Love

LR

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Oct 24 2006 00:26

Peader O Donnell told a story about how when he was in spain. The anarchos executed some dickhead priest but they said they did it 'with love'.

*hums killing me softly*

Feighnt
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Oct 24 2006 01:51
georgestapleton wrote:
Peader O Donnell told a story about how when he was in spain. The anarchos executed some dickhead priest but they said they did it 'with love'.

*hums killing me softly*

hugged him to death? had him cuddled by a leper? gave him the kiss of death? killed him with kindness? flattered him to death? showered him with praise (and some bullets)?

grin

Coconut man
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Oct 24 2006 02:09

"Free all prisoners convicted of non-violent crimes" would make a much nicer slogan in my humble opinion.

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Oct 24 2006 05:29

"Free all prisoners" I feel that its quite justifiable to end the prison system...It has and never will work for the purpose it was intended for.. except to incarcerate and keep potential troublemakers away from those trying to do their best. but even at that itsn ot very efficient.

The prison system as a whole function as a training ground for criminal minded people and a contact area today.

The idea of punishing, well it might have worked a few hundred years ago to some extent(because of the cruelty of the prisons and not the understanding of the crime committed)...

but it doesnt work as a whole, it does not remove or repair the problem. and as it works today It function more a a societal punishing of those that havent done anything, through the fact that I, You and everyone that isnt in the prison has to pay and feed the very people causing problems for the rest of us.

In a anarchistic society the idea of prisons, force has to be abolished... simply cause it does not function to its intended purpose and it contradicts liberty. and in some countries the prison population are used as forced labour even.. paid little or nothing for their work...

Free all prisioners.. is a old slogan.. stating the fact that a Man or woman put in prison for stealing bread to keep themselve alive are not criminals but rather the society that would not assist them and let them starve.. are the criminals...

Then the question arises to my mind.. "Catch 22" how do the society correct misguded individuals " the capitalists" that seek to rob, plunder for their own selfish gain.. that would be up to the local community themselve to pass judgement on them, I myself favor the idea of Exile.. kick the pigs out...

second .. what about murderers,rapist, child abusers.. who knows I can at some point imagine that alot of locals would probably lynch them.. without even a trial being set up where upon the locals and victims themselve pass judgement.. ofcourse it requires a healthy educated society. and not a tribalistic, blood thirsty society.. who knows.. how that would work... but exiling such people would probably lead to more abuse,deaths.. a very insult to liberty itself

but I feel that those who trespass others liberty, privacy at extreme levels with no thought about the victims life, liberty and rights deserve neither him/her self.. and a bullet would fit the description.. just look at some of the stuff u read in newspapers..

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Oct 24 2006 07:27
october_lost wrote:
punishment is difficult, because it would have to be collectively decided, so asking what myself or yourself thinks of x, y or z is a bit of a none starter, because that is only one equation of possible many.

If people cant be rehabilitated and excluding them caused issues on other communities, then punishment is the last alternative that I can see.

So you do think there needs to be functioning prisons then?

Fuck it, why vacilitate over stuff like this? If people are a danger to others and there's no other way to prevent them from being such, why not lock them up?

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Joseph Kay
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Oct 24 2006 07:42

exactly, it's not about punishment (vengefully 'teaching them a lesson'), but self-defence - you're a fucking nut who stabs people on a whim/rapes kids/whatever, we can't have you doing that in the name of anarchist freedom, even if it is all ultimately the fault of alienated property relations. some form of detention/segregation is blatantly less authoritarian than execution and less stupid than just exiling them to the neighbouring locality. i mean there's all sorts of shitty aspects of detention as it is, and yeah 'anarchist prisons' sounds a bit odd, but wtf should you actually do with say a serial rapist/killer, at least in the meantime while we work our anarcho-rehab magic?

the button's picture
the button
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Oct 24 2006 08:12

I hate to wank on about the Spanish Civil War, but didn't the militias execute a lot of crims because putting them in prison would have conflicted with their anarchist principles? There's a way forward there, I think.... wink

Feighnt
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Oct 24 2006 08:41
the button wrote:
I hate to wank on about the Spanish Civil War, but didn't the militias execute a lot of crims because putting them in prison would have conflicted with their anarchist principles? There's a way forward there, I think.... ;)

see, the annoying thing is, i saw someone actually make this argument on an Anarchist group on myspace, once. the guy was trying to think of the proper, Anarchist way to deal with criminals, and he proposed execution as the only possible solution, since Anarchism is supposed to be against binding a person such as happens in a prison.

i mean, what the hell? 8)