Depressed anarchist...

79 posts / 0 new
Last post
anarchist.
Offline
Joined: 19-09-03
Dec 30 2004 01:01
Depressed anarchist...

Haven't posted for ages..but I thought i would just say a few things, ask a few questions...

But reading all the posts etc. I can't help but feel all the same reasons I became isolated still exist in the UK anarchist movement...arguments, bitching, in-group obsessions,lack of action,lifestylism, general crappiness etc... Does anyone else just get really fucking depressed by it all...

I went on so many fucking demos in 2002/03 early 04 and did so much and it just felt like nothing... I've since tried to to use other means to help such as writing, did some stuff with some french anarchists,used cultural things(music etc) to spread the word as it was,done a lot of local stuff and independent actions.But still not feeling great and a bit lonely about it all...

So what to do..oh it fucks me off!!!

I'm really out of touch with whats going one these days when i sort of dropped out the AF had driven up it's own arse, wildfire..well we all know what happened there... and it didn't look too great....

So...

Oh also...as for the whole green anarchy stuff...I think the friction between that and the rest of anarchism is odd, i see both sides and it really upsets me there is a common ground both have valid points...I have as one of my pen-pals a certain mr. Zerzan and after much debate i think he means well and is anarchist through and through but i can see why people dislike him...

I just wish we could all get along,, i think a lot of green anarchists(myself included) just have various problems with other anarchists in the same way others have problems with my politics but at the core I want the overthrow of capitalism, the state and heirarchy and domination just like every other anarchist...surely the differences could be sorted out after whatever it takes to get started with that(revolution what ever...)

surely our first steps are the same??? I think that our worries about heirarchy in groups like the CNT, and industrial society, work would have to be sorted and surely other peoples problems with our opposition to those ideas would in turn be sorted... but how about it's later after the last state is destroyed when it would be productive(not to mention essential)....

Anyway im rambling and wasting space...thanks for reading

Good luck to you all and solidarity... circle A

WeTheYouth
Offline
Joined: 16-10-03
Dec 30 2004 01:10

i get the same feeling from time to time. just take a break for a while, do something fun like watching star wars all day and then when that gets boring watch shrek 2 and after that play halo 2, what is more satisfying than killing aliens with crap weapons?

Thora
Offline
Joined: 17-06-04
Dec 30 2004 08:05
anarchist. wrote:
But reading all the posts etc. I can't help but feel all the same reasons I became isolated still exist in the UK anarchist movement...arguments, bitching, in-group obsessions,lack of action,lifestylism, general crappiness etc... Does anyone else just get really fucking depressed by it all...

It irritates me slightly when people come up with this as a criticism of enrager - of course its all bitching and in-jokes, IT'S THE INTERNET. I don't think it can be taken as a reflection of the "movement" as a whole. Just because I waste my time arguing with idiots on here (no offence anyone) doesn't mean I don't do anything more constructive, it just means I don't passively watch as much TV as I might otherwise.

anarchist. wrote:
I went on so many fucking demos in 2002/03 early 04 and did so much and it just felt like nothing... I've since tried to to use other means to help such as writing, did some stuff with some french anarchists,used cultural things(music etc) to spread the word as it was,done a lot of local stuff and independent actions.But still not feeling great and a bit lonely about it all...

So what to do..oh it fucks me off!!!

I'm really out of touch with whats going one these days when i sort of dropped out the AF had driven up it's own arse, wildfire..well we all know what happened there... and it didn't look too great....

Lots of people get burned out from time to time - I'm not really sure what the answer to that is other than take a break from politics for a while. On the bright side, we can all go up to Scotland and get our heads kicked in in the summer, which should be fun.

Or, if rioting with Dissent isn't your thing, have you heard about what's happening in Iceland in the summer? There's been a call for people to go out there to resist the building of the Karahnjukar dam - sorry I don't have more details, but I spoke briefly to an Icelandic activist about it at the bookfair and it seemed pretty interesting.

And Wildfire produced an excellent bulletin for the bookfair btw.

anarchist. wrote:
Oh also...as for the whole green anarchy stuff...I think the friction between that and the rest of anarchism is odd, i see both sides and it really upsets me there is a common ground both have valid points...

I do agree with you here. Anyone with a green or vaguely anti-civ critique is immediately dismissed as a mental primmo. And what's with the primmo bashing anyway?

anarchist. wrote:
I just wish we could all get along

eek

wink

3rdseason
Offline
Joined: 19-09-03
Dec 30 2004 14:22
Thora wrote:
anarchist. wrote:
Oh also...as for the whole green anarchy stuff...I think the friction between that and the rest of anarchism is odd, i see both sides and it really upsets me there is a common ground both have valid points...

I do agree with you here. Anyone with a green or vaguely anti-civ critique is immediately dismissed as a mental primmo. And what's with the primmo bashing anyway?

Yeah Ive been saying this for ages. But it won't stop. sad Actually to be honest I don't think people are THAT bad to greens, but primmos take a lashing, which is a shame imo.

Anarchist how depressed do you actually get? Don't think about politics all the time, get exercise meet up with mates, have a laugh, listen to music, read non-political books etc.

If things get really bad there are people who you can talk to as well. smile

Joe Hill
Offline
Joined: 2-12-04
Jan 2 2005 00:34

Don't be depressed, be angry. We are here too and we love you. Also, take a break...

Joe Hill
Offline
Joined: 2-12-04
Jan 2 2005 00:44

And if things get really bad, post.

JoeMaguire's picture
JoeMaguire
Offline
Joined: 26-09-03
Jan 2 2005 01:05

Burn-out usually happens when you start to assume your not affecting anything. Luckily if your working on localised stuff, or your involved with good people its easy to maintain enthuisasm.

So my advice would be have fun and make friends, keep things personal, and if your doing something which is a strain, then fuck it off....

Thora
Offline
Joined: 17-06-04
Jan 2 2005 01:25

A dark, dark heart beats within you revol angry

Anarch
Offline
Joined: 22-09-04
Jan 2 2005 05:03

Oh Revol, when will you learn that violence is not the solution? I think you really need to adress your deeply seated hatred for primmos. I think it is because deep down you to wish you were dancing around a fire every night stoned off your ass and waiting for the big bad cities to fall over. Admit it, that tatoo of Zerzan on your ass isnt because you were drunk like you tell people, you got it beacuse you care. About the trees, and butterflies, and ewoks, and hobbits. You care so much that it has made you bitter and all into this communism nonsense. You cant hug a child with nuculear arms Revol. You just cant.

johno
Offline
Joined: 29-12-04
Jan 2 2005 13:43
revol68 wrote:
look if u had been abused by an ewok when ur were young u too would fear the forest!

god i can still see their manic faces staring coldly, almost as if they are focused beyond me, oh the pure banality of evil!

Is this the one who dunnit!!!

Joe Hill
Offline
Joined: 2-12-04
Jan 3 2005 00:17

OK, so now what's a 'primmo'? Bullet points pls so I grasp the concept quickly, no rambling posts.

Someone who wants to eschew technology? I underst and why if this is so, but don't necessarily agree.(Pol pot etc)

cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
Offline
Joined: 15-03-04
Jan 3 2005 00:35
Joe Hill wrote:
OK, so now what's a 'primmo'? )

a whacky fringe cult that should be violently expelled from any left wing organisation

Anarch
Offline
Joined: 22-09-04
Jan 3 2005 00:57

You guys sure take a narrow view of politics. Why cant the primmos be the foot soldiers of the revolution? And shame on you Revol for saying you were abused by the ewoks. I am sure they were just trying to acclamate you to their forest ways. This is just like when you punched that hobbit for trying to invite you into his "hole" you just have a dirty mind and no sense of perspective.

Joe Hill
Offline
Joined: 2-12-04
Jan 3 2005 02:27

Anarch if you dont stop I may no other option. And I am still a Leninist, ha, ha...

but I am sure you are sweet and non-deserving ...

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 12:29

it would be very easy to assume from listening to Jack and revol constantly explode on the subject, that there are primitivists hiding around every corner. This really isn't the case and it amazes me that so much energy is directed at slagging off primitivism on enrager when it really doesn't appear to be that significant in the UK.

Joe, the bit below is how primitivists describe themselves. Its their words and beliefs not mine.

"Primitivists say that primitivism is an a examination of the origins of civilization and the circumstances that led to this nightmare we currently inhabit. They say that for much of human history, people lived in face to face communities in balance with others and with their surroundings, without formal hierarchies and institutions. They say they want to learn from hunter-gatherer societies that have existed and they believe currently exist outside of civilisation. Some primitivists want an immediate and complete return to hunter gatherer band societies but most acknowledge what was successful in the past won't unconditionally determine what would work in the future. However, civilisation is seen as the underlying root of oppression through its logic and institutions and so has to be dismantled".

I am not a primitivist and neither am I promoting primitivist ideology. So, Jack and revol etc don't you lot start on me or I'll whup all yer asses.

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 12:40

no, i'm just bitter and twisted cause i can't afford central heating

Caiman del Barrio
Offline
Joined: 28-09-04
Jan 3 2005 14:46

Hahah Jack remember when we were tripping on shrooms and you all got convinced that it was boiling hot and opened the front door at 2am so the coldest fucking wind ever came in. Damn trippers were like "MmMmMMMmmMm..."

Caiman del Barrio
Offline
Joined: 28-09-04
Jan 3 2005 14:58

No, it was a relevant story. And the working class do plenty of drugs. Quit being a jackass.

Thora
Offline
Joined: 17-06-04
Jan 3 2005 15:26
lucy82 wrote:
"Primitivists say that primitivism is an a examination of the origins of civilization and the circumstances that led to this nightmare we currently inhabit. They say that for much of human history, people lived in face to face communities in balance with others and with their surroundings, without formal hierarchies and institutions. They say they want to learn from hunter-gatherer societies that have existed and they believe currently exist outside of civilisation. Some primitivists want an immediate and complete return to hunter gatherer band societies but most acknowledge what was successful in the past won't unconditionally determine what would work in the future. However, civilisation is seen as the underlying root of oppression through its logic and institutions and so has to be dismantled".

See, now is any of that really that bad? Why don't you just go back to bitching about Trots or Animal Rights or Class War or something. Thinking about it, you boys do an awful lot of bitching...

Caiman del Barrio
Offline
Joined: 28-09-04
Jan 3 2005 15:53
Thora wrote:
lucy82 wrote:
"Primitivists say that primitivism is an a examination of the origins of civilization and the circumstances that led to this nightmare we currently inhabit. They say that for much of human history, people lived in face to face communities in balance with others and with their surroundings, without formal hierarchies and institutions. They say they want to learn from hunter-gatherer societies that have existed and they believe currently exist outside of civilisation. Some primitivists want an immediate and complete return to hunter gatherer band societies but most acknowledge what was successful in the past won't unconditionally determine what would work in the future. However, civilisation is seen as the underlying root of oppression through its logic and institutions and so has to be dismantled".

See, now is any of that really that bad?

Oh c'mon, it really is...

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 17:47
Quote:
which is lucy's favourite "ignore them".

tell me where i actually said that?

rather than this:

Quote:
it amazes me that so much energy is directed at slagging off primitivism on enrager when it really doesn't appear to be that significant in the UK.

revol said:

Quote:
is correct we should ignore them but that means not allowing them to link their shite ideas to anarchism and fighting the encroachment of such shite ideas into anarchsit theory, and it certainly means they shouldn't be allowed to post their shite on anti authoritarian boards

exactly how many primitivists have ever tried to post on enrager? Username? whose mostly disappeared now? what is this, shadowboxing for the bored?

and have any of you actually met anyone that wanted to abolish language? or the use of metal? or who seriously wanted to bomb universities apart from bored students and fucked off lecturers on temporary contracts?

i am all for talking with people not ignoring them and i've done various things and met a load of different people from the spectrum of anarcho-communists to crusties, but i've yet to meet anyone who wants to abolish language. I've not yet even met anyone who wants to abolish medicine in the crude sense that revol means. the stranglehold and profit of the big drug companies yes, and the way in which that distorts research yes, and a acknowledgement that a lot of drugs are actually sourced from plants, yes and that maybe there are other possibilitys when we consider the development and administration of medicine, yes. whats so wrong with people thinking about that? and don't come back quoting something from Green Anarchy or whatever to prove primitivists are the new demons , cause the real demons are not the primitivists and so i'm not interested.

enrager is just a little forum in terms of the amount of people who actually post and so a few topics have both a constant tendancy to be reduced to the most simplistic forms of argument and yet also magnified out of all proportion.

primitivists are not a big influence in this country as far as i can see. spend your anger and energy on something worth fighting.

and y'know, when you start going on about the word anarchy as if you own it and therefore its beyond discussion despite the fact that other people come from different viewpoints and might even agree with you eventually given an acknowledgement that their not necessarily stupid knobheads for wanting to read, think and explore, and then you boys start going on about the primitivists as the big bad wolf in the woods, it does make you look a tiny bit silly.. like screaming cause theres an evil wolf then finding its a rabbit.

Quote:
Thinking about it, you boys do an awful lot of bitching...

yup

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 18:44

think you're changing the debate here, revol. people who want to live in small communities and are against consumerism etc etc as you describe are not primitivists.

you are then lumping in a whole raft of people, street theatre outside tesco, people from the green party on their electoral raft, hippies, people who write bad slogans, 'buy nothing day' people, new grass roots activist groups... etc etc... none of these have anything to do with primitivism.

I really don't see the green party or any of the rest seriously wanting to bring down civilisation...

its too easy to extrapolate anything you dislike about what other people do and call it a sort of wishy washy primitivism which you are doing by saying

Quote:
primitivism is just a particualrly vile strand of this kind of shite,

primitivism is not "a vile strand of this kind of shite". it is completely different. primitivism is not the ghetto anarchism is stuck in either. I'd agree there was a ghetto anarchism was stuck in if you meant lack of activity, too much infighting, forgetting who the enemy really is, disappearing up your own arse whilst swallowing your mobile phone etc etc.

just by the way, why are you all so worried about what revol calls "creeping ideas"? is it so difficult to argue your ground? or can you offer some proof of the way in which these scary people are ripping anarchism out from under your feet?

oh and happy new year grin

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 19:01

oh yeah, jack, what does <3 mean?

i'm assuming it means whatever revol wrote is brilliant regardless of whether its shit or not but use language, you fucking primmie tongue

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 19:10

my daughter just told me its a heart....

how sweet roll eyes

Refused's picture
Refused
Offline
Joined: 28-09-04
Jan 3 2005 19:38
anarchist. wrote:
Haven't posted for ages..but I thought i would just say a few things, ask a few questions...

But reading all the posts etc. I can't help but feel all the same reasons I became isolated still exist in the UK anarchist movement...arguments, bitching, in-group obsessions,lack of action,lifestylism, general crappiness etc... Does anyone else just get really fucking depressed by it all...

I went on so many fucking demos in 2002/03 early 04 and did so much and it just felt like nothing... I've since tried to to use other means to help such as writing, did some stuff with some french anarchists,used cultural things(music etc) to spread the word as it was,done a lot of local stuff and independent actions.But still not feeling great and a bit lonely about it all...

So what to do..oh it fucks me off!!!

I bet this thread has really cheered the lad/lass up. grin

Anarch
Offline
Joined: 22-09-04
Jan 3 2005 20:52

We could start killing primmos? I mean, not that we have to or anything...but is something to think about. Is it lifestylist to kill primmos? I bet loads of working class people do it all the time. I mean, you know killing hippies must fit somewhere into all of this. Wasnt it reference in that famous Kropotkin essay, you know the one I am talking about right? All right look I bought all these guns and masks to kill doctors and everyone is bitching that it will be a bad idea and what not, so what about the crunchies? For christs sake they want us to unlearn language! Come on!

roll eyes

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 21:42

i understand exactly what you mean by saying "shite incoherent currents are attaching themselves to anarchism and on their own seem harmless but have a creeping effect and so anarchism itself becomes a melting point of shite" but what i'm saying is that you lot are overreacting.

do you really think all the problems that are to do with communicating the ideas of anarchism to people can be laid at the doors of primitivists? i'm just asking for a little realism here. and what sorts of shit exactly are you being asked to accept out of respect for diversity? the green party? buy nothing day? i agree its absolute crap but it has nothing whatsoever to do with primitivism so stop mixing this shit up for easy argument.

revol, i've misjudged you. cause i've just realised you'd make a fuckin good preacher. no seriously... pissing on the pulpit and poisoning the chalice. a place of falsehood and sacrifice...

yeah, well i don't want to purge any false prophets, i don't want no reformation designed to remove idolatory identified by people who post on enrager. there are no devils as far as i can see who plead solidarity whilst spewing out vilest shite and distortions. there are people. even with dreads. some like to live in woods. so get over it. if you want to thunder from the pulpit, find something worth thundering againsnt.

your saying anarchism is a theology based on an abstract faith, well if thats so, it will remain so, until it is rooted in the everyday experiences of working class people BUT it will never be anything else as long as its thrown away in judgemental dismissal and cartoon class analysis ranting at primitivists as the real enemy and chucking everything else into the mix cause it makes a good pudding on an internet forum.

if you read my post again you might realise i am not defending primitivism but saying there is far too much time and energy wasted shadowboxing primitivist ghosts.

ok jack, i won't beat you up. cyber-pull my daughter and we can both live in your wardrobe. it IS so fucking cold in this house

Mr. T

anarch, i think you need a nice cup of tea.

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 22:35

no, i got the point, did you get mine?

you were saying about two posts back that almost everyshite idea was related to primitivism .. buy nothing day etc... but i'll accept now for the sake of moving this discussion on that you are not saying that.

and so where does your analysis lead? the bile reserved for primitivism is because its a symbol, a manifestation of what some people see as the dilution of anarchism from some kind of pure form?

what do you think anarchism is? primmies round every corner? is discussing shit with people so difficult that we have to be afraid of primitivism presented as a refreshing critique? and spend so much time and energy slagging it off.

anyway, i'm bored now. i don't accept that primitivism is the ultimate manifestation of how incoherent and plain retarded anarchism has become, because i don't accept that primitivism has any real input into the reasons why there are problems with anarchism. stop finding easy scapegoats.

its not that i don't get it. i disagree. get out more and stop tilting at primmie windmills.

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 22:36

Jack, shes a lady, does that make a difference?

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 22:49

ok, i'll tell her.

i don't think its the best pull line ever though.

lucy82
Offline
Joined: 31-05-04
Jan 3 2005 23:10

ha revol, you were diverted from the argument by my clever use of my daughter as a sexual ploy. so you lost. playground rules.

and i am the worse mother in the world. fuckin single mothers using their children as bait on a crap internet forum...

shes 18. shall i ask her to say exactly what she thinks of this?