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banning paid organizers

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EdmontonWobbly's picture
EdmontonWobbly
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Jul 10 2007 15:06
Quote:
Nate wrote:
I actually like Duke and owe him several favors for some stuff he did to help my friends and I in an organizing drive a while back.
Quote:
revol wrote:
Nate I'd suggest taking a look at the types ot fuckwits that make up the NEFAC supporters club, folks like Thugarist and let's not forget our good Chavez rimming friend rise.

Heh, yeah Duke's alright it's that Thugarchist you have to watch out for.

Dundee_United
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Jul 10 2007 15:14
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If union organizers aren't workers, what are they?

They are organisers.

yoshomon
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Jul 10 2007 16:31

I tend towards Otto Rühle's assertion that "Only in the factory is the worker of today a real proletarian, and as such a revolutionary within the meaning of the proletarian-socialist revolution. Outside the factory he is a petty-bourgeois, involved in a petty-bourgeois milieu and middle-class habits of life, dominated by petty-bourgeois ideology."

Of course, I would use different language and look at more than just the factory, but I think the deeper meaning remains.

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MJ
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Jul 10 2007 17:05
yoshomon wrote:
I tend towards Otto Rühle's assertion that "Only in the factory is the worker of today a real proletarian, and as such a revolutionary within the meaning of the proletarian-socialist revolution. Outside the factory he is a petty-bourgeois, involved in a petty-bourgeois milieu and middle-class habits of life, dominated by petty-bourgeois ideology."

Of course, I would use different language and look at more than just the factory, but I think the deeper meaning remains.

Can someone with more patience than me explain the concept of the social factory to this kid?

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MJ
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Jul 10 2007 17:13

Contradictory ones, duh.

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Nate
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Jul 10 2007 17:33
Dundee_United wrote:
Union organisers are not exploited per se.

I dunno. Organizers are a paid a wage and are generally required to produce results valued by their employer as worth greater than that wage. That's exploitation. That's part of why organizers sometimes have conflicts with their employers. That doesn't mean that organizers have an immediate community of interest with every other person who is exploited -- two exploited sectors can have interests which are contradictory or in tension. Like the technican who installs a device to monitor line speed in a factory vs the people who work on the factory line. Both are exploited. They have a common interest in the very long term in the end of exploitation, but in the short term they have somewhat different interests.

Mike Harman
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Jul 10 2007 17:41

Can I check something? I thought this thread was about whether paid organisers were allowed in Organise! But some people seem to be talking about here (i.e. libcom forums). Which is it? Or both?

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Nate
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Jul 10 2007 20:38

Revol you're too soft. Libcom needs to ban not only current paid organizers but past paid organizers, people in the same organizations as paid organizers, people who have friends who are paid organizers, and anyone who advocates for paid organizers in any way including protesting or arguing against their banning. To do otherwise is objectively counter-revolutionary.

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MJ
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Jul 10 2007 20:45
revol68 wrote:
Hey politics and struggle, they can just become another niche commodity, another feather in the cap of the service industry.

cunts!

Once again, the argument that the left wing and the right wing of capital are the same, but we should only take jobs with the right wing of capital. grin You and OliverTwister are like two peas in a pod on this one!

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Nate
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Jul 10 2007 20:48
revol68 wrote:
Hold on, i've only had one pint so far, have some patience!

Hey this reminded me I need to run to the liquor store, thanks!

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MJ
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Jul 10 2007 20:58
revol68 wrote:
That is the one thing we have left

Oh come off it, quit the emo shit and get a grip on reality.

j.rogue
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Jul 10 2007 21:07
revol68 wrote:
MJ wrote:
revol68 wrote:
Hey politics and struggle, they can just become another niche commodity, another feather in the cap of the service industry.

cunts!

Once again, the argument that the left wing and the right wing of capital are the same, but we should only take jobs with the right wing of capital. grin You and OliverTwister are like two peas in a pod on this one!

eh no the difference is the commodification of struggle, it's not like working in a call centre or a restraunt were you are involved in the commodification of food, products and services, it's where the struggle itself, our resistance to this becomes commodified. That is the one thing we have left, our ability to struggle against capitalism becomes a commodity.

What are your thoughts on people who work at non-profits?

j.rogue
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Jul 10 2007 21:21

There is a lot of discussion about how the non-profit sector has co-opted various struggles, and a lot of evidence to back that up. Where does that fit?