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"Banking families"

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MJ's picture
MJ
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Jul 8 2007 12:02
"Banking families"
daniel wrote:
daniel wrote:
Familial dynasties. If you haven't already, have a look at this:

http://www.point-of-departure.org/Lust-For-Life/TheRockefellerFiles/RockefellerFiles.htm

The Rockefeller File by Gary Allen. Gary Allen is a right-wing "conspiracy theorist" who also wrote a book about the international socialist plot. Goes on about how the Bolsheviks were bankrolled by the Rothschilds and so on. Interesting stuff.

Interesting book. You should check it out. The banking families run the world my friend.

daniel wrote:
MJ wrote:
daniel wrote:
Well, please rescue me from the darkness of my ignorance for I fear I have strayed from the anarchist line, o enlightened one.

Well for starters...

daniel wrote:
The banking families run the world my friend.

You aren't an anarchist.

I've been purged!!!!

Seriously tho, what is un-anarchist about recognizing that the banking families who control the economy also control the political sphere? Bankers have been in direct control of the US since 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve. "He who controls the money controls the country." Seems like a very anarchist thing to recognise that.

The banking families have a huge impact upon the world. Although un-verified, I've heard it said that the Rothschilds bankrolled the Bolsheviks. Wouldn't surprise me. The Rockefellers are a political institution in and of themselves in America! Founded the Council on Foreign Relations, funded the building of the UN building in New York, and have been involved with the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg. (How else are the ruling class supposed to rule?) The banking families are the top tier of the ruling class and are the most class conscious and devious.

Why aint i an anarchist then? Seems pretty standard.

Any thoughts?

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rise
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Jul 8 2007 16:37

It's Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, using communism. That's why Hitler had to destroy Europe in order to save it.

ugh.

daniel isn't a libcom poster, is he?

pgh2a
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Jul 8 2007 17:03

I'm curious (for entertainment purposes) to hear from Daniel how and why the Rothschilds funded the Bolshies.

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MJ
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Jul 8 2007 17:15
pghwob wrote:
I'm curious (for entertainment purposes) to hear from Daniel how and why the Rothschilds funded the Bolshies.

It explains it all in the book Daniel linked too (complete with a foreword by Larry McDonald!)...

Quote:
At the time the Czar abdicated and for the next several months, the eventual leaders of the Bolshevik Revolution, Lenin and Trotsky, were not even in Russia. Lenin was in Switzerland and had been living in exile since 1905. Trotsky also was in exile, working as a reporter for a Communist newspaper in -would you believe -New York City.

Trotsky was allowed to return to Russia with an American passport; Lenin was spirited across Europe in the famous sealed train. They joined forces and by November, through bribery, cunning, brutality and deception, were able to hire enough thugs and make enough deals to seize control of Petrograd. The Bolsheviks came to power not because the downtrodden masses of Russia called them back, but because very powerful men in Europe and the United States, including members of the Rockefeller family, sent them in.

David in Atlanta
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Jul 8 2007 17:35
rise wrote:
It's Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, using communism. That's why Hitler had to destroy Europe in order to save it.

ugh.

daniel isn't a libcom poster, is he?

oh but he is.
Someone might want to point out to daniel that the Rockafellers primary source of wealth wasn't banking but oil.

pgh2a
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Jul 8 2007 17:39

Yeah, I didn't see too much in terms of citation, and only one reference to a Rothschild in that chapter.

Wasn't Larry McDonald head of John Birch Society?

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Jul 8 2007 17:42

McDonald was indeed president of the Birchers, then got elected to Congress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_McDonald

Daniel's very upfront about the fact that the book itself is right-wing conspiracy theory, what I have a problem with is:

daniel wrote:
Bankers have been in direct control of the US since 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve. "He who controls the money controls the country." Seems like a very anarchist thing to recognise that.

The banking families have a huge impact upon the world. Although un-verified, I've heard it said that the Rothschilds bankrolled the Bolsheviks. Wouldn't surprise me. The Rockefellers are a political institution in and of themselves in America! Founded the Council on Foreign Relations, funded the building of the UN building in New York, and have been involved with the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg. (How else are the ruling class supposed to rule?) The banking families are the top tier of the ruling class and are the most class conscious and devious.

Devious, ffs.

David in Atlanta
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Jul 8 2007 17:58

Ya know what someone needs to do? Write an easy to read "How the Ruling Class Rules" volume including a through rebuttal of conspiracy mongers like Allen.

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Jul 8 2007 18:06
David in Atlanta wrote:
Ya know what someone needs to do? Write an easy to read "How the Ruling Class Rules" volume including a through rebuttal of conspiracy mongers like Allen.

Like this one?

wink

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madashell
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Jul 8 2007 18:16

You ultra-leftists and your crazy, out of date theories, I don't know roll eyes wink

David in Atlanta
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Jul 8 2007 18:44
MJ wrote:
David in Atlanta wrote:
Ya know what someone needs to do? Write an easy to read "How the Ruling Class Rules" volume including a through rebuttal of conspiracy mongers like Allen.

Like this one?

:wink:

Good start, needs updating and a bit of "dumbing down"
wink

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Jul 8 2007 18:54
David in Atlanta wrote:
MJ wrote:
David in Atlanta wrote:
Ya know what someone needs to do? Write an easy to read "How the Ruling Class Rules" volume including a through rebuttal of conspiracy mongers like Allen.

Like this one?

:wink:

Good start, needs updating and a bit of "dumbing down"
wink

grin and one for madas grin

Yeah daniel's views are kinda strange... eek

I mean normally i quite like strange - i am here aren't I? wink - but even i have my limits..umm nice enough guy IRL i am sure but all very odd.......

Love

LW X

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Jul 8 2007 22:30

well, so its all in Das Kapital eh? Sure. bankers want to make money. the ruling class wants to increase their personal wealth and power. Right? Anybody disagree with that basic idea?

the particularly powerful factions of the ruling class (based around families) use many tactics to make money and increase their power. Some are overt some are covert. Anybody disagree?

the ruling class have a number of closed or secret meetings and organisations where they do their bizo. correct?

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Jul 8 2007 22:45
rise wrote:
It's Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, using communism.

sections of the ruling class recognized that Lenin was capitalism's best bet in Russia.

pghwob wrote:
I'm curious (for entertainment purposes) to hear from Daniel how and why the Rothschilds funded the Bolshies.

I've heard this allegation in various places and altho I haven't followed it up I'd not be surprised. Critical thinking eh. wink

David in Atlanta wrote:
Someone might want to point out to daniel that the Rockafellers primary source of wealth wasn't banking but oil.

I'm aware of that, mate. Doesn't exactly detract from my point tho does it?

MJ wrote:
David in Atlanta wrote:
Ya know what someone needs to do? Write an easy to read "How the Ruling Class Rules" volume including a through rebuttal of conspiracy mongers like Allen.

Like this one?

wink

Huh. Witty. Do you really believe it's all in there then? The history of the world is all in the economic textbooks eh? Well strike me pink.

Seriously tho, can somebody explain to me what strange and whacky ideas I hold? That's be grand.

All these elite families are behind all these world-shaking institutions and its, ur, pure coincidence or what? The Rockefellers found the Council on Foreign Relations which then has a huge effect on American government. (for a good intro to the CFR, see Noam Chomsky's writing on the subject). The Warburgs, Rockefellers, Morgans and Rothschilds plan to take direct control of the US and the Federal Reserve is created. Blimey. What a coincidence.

again, show me the light. where have I erred?

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Jul 8 2007 23:01

Basically when you say banking families rule the world you sound like a conspiracy nutcase.

Also, no one rules the world, although obviously those with control over a lot of capital have a lot more influence.

Also it's not just banking families, as has been pointed out industrialists also have a lot of power, as do aristocrats.

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Jul 8 2007 23:01

Obviously the Capital thing was a joke in response to David's "easy to read volume" suggestion.

You're mistaking forums for seats of agency.

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Jul 8 2007 23:06
daniel wrote:
MJ wrote:

wink

Huh. Witty. Do you really believe it's all in there then? The history of the world is all in the economic textbooks eh?

Capital is an economics textbook now.

Quote:
Well strike me pink.
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Jul 8 2007 23:12

daniel san, you are clearly talking deliberate shite. You've been rumbled, mate, give over.

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Jul 8 2007 23:28

I give it you banking families are not all powerful or anything. but they're pretty damn powerful.

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Jul 8 2007 23:33
Quote:
The banking families run the world my friend.
Quote:
I give it you banking families are not all powerful or anything. but they're pretty damn powerful.

progress.

Can you explain why the Rothschilds supposedly bankrolled the bolshevik takeover? (and any proof that they actually did would be nice)

Terry
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Jul 8 2007 23:35

Dunno Daniel on climate change and Daniel on feminism may be a windup, but this is actually more interesting, see capital is a social relationship right, capitalism is a form of social organisation, right, not a collection of people with top hats, but nonetheless there are owners of capital, and there is the state, there are people with power at the top of our society....and at this point left wing politics (including anarchism, communism, et al) starts to veer in the same direction as your conspiracy theory. Was once witness to an argument/discussion between an anarchist-communist and a kid into conspiracy theories....the anarchist-communist wasn't winning.

Moreover there are left versions, or at least respectable to the left, of straight up conspiracy theory.

I remember some Dutch group I think it was wrote a few pieces about this in the 1999 to 2001 anti-globalisation period about how the focus on the IMF, World Bank and Finance capital neatly meshed with right wing conspiracy theory.

All this focus on all powerful inner teams tends to end up as something very silly, eg the Bolsheviks were the tools of a consortuim of capitalists, or to look at the same thing from another direction everything that happens in the majority world is down to American imperialism (see the CIA trained Osama etc..etc...).

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Jul 8 2007 23:38

Why? conflict investment. backing the side most open to the interests of the financial powers. nobody but the bolsheviks stood in such a perfect position to crush the russian working people. as they did.

i'd need proof of course. but that's what they say.

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Jul 8 2007 23:41

In which case it was rather altruistic of the Rothschilds to fund the bolsheviks.
As far as I am aware the Rothschilds did not finance the bolsheviks and people that say that they did are generally from the 'jewish conspiracy' point of view, I'd appreciate a comrade with a bit more info helping out at this point.

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Jul 8 2007 23:56

me too. I think i'll look into it more and report back at some period.

meanwhile, I think you lot are underestemating the clout of the banking families.

this researcher called Michael Nield has done a lot of thurough and intense investigation and has has an excellant website called www.policestateplanning.com. He's looking at what is loosely coined "the New World Order" but is by no means a conspiraloon. He provides extensive mainstream documentation and seems to be one of the more intelectually honest researchers into that particular field tho I disagree with plenty of his stuff.

Michael Nield wrote:
The ownership and control of commercial activity by a few European and American families has created the necessary concentration of financial power to manipulate public policy at all levels through co-option of politicians, policy institutes, charities, educational establishments, and media outlets. Maintaining this international army is a very expensive business, so it is important to understand the source of its funds.

Michael Nield wrote:
There exists behind closed doors, a high command of policy groups which feed the argument for political globalization. Policies are passed down the chain of command into the public arena by lavish patronage of public institutions and key politicians. In discrete pursuit of financial globalization, they have also advanced the view that the future of mankind is best served by a transfusion of wealth from the West to lesser developed countries in the form of foreign aid and bank loans.

there's some interesting information of the guy's website, tho he's a rightwing "libertarian" type.

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Jul 8 2007 23:59

Are you just rebelling against your anarchosyndicalist family or something? Capital isn't maintained "behind closed doors".

Furthermore loans aren't a "tranfusion of wealth," do you even know what "loan" means??

Terry
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Jul 9 2007 00:00

The assumption is that state capitalism was in the interests of a couple of banking families, how so?
They would have had to be incredibly prescient, because this was funding of the Bolsheviks before October, indeed just after February, and so before the clean break with the Provisional Government/Mensheviks and right SRs and the adoption of the April Thesis, I mean Bolshevism had basically three different policies in the space of just over a year, support for the coalition, pushing the revolution as far forward as possible, acting as a break on the revolution, which one were they funding?
Moreover I would suprised to see any ruling class source outline 'Bolshevism' in 1917 as meaning the repression of the working class....and indeed during the civil war it was widely held that Bolshevism wouldn't last, it would collapse of its own accord.
If the crucial factor in Bolshevism is supposed to be the support of the Rothschilds...then why didn't they support someone like say the right SRs or Kornilov and hence, apparently, they would come to, or stay in, power, mmm you could after all make a stronger case that those factions politics and the interests of very rich people coincided (y'know a political faction that wasn't nationalising property, for starters)

Also there is the small matter of lack of evidence. The relationship between Bolshevism and Imperial Germany is a matter of historical record, yet this is well secret, despite this being one of the most studied periods of human history, the soviet archives being opened, etc..

Oh and weren't banking interests in the United States dependant on an Allied victory to collect the debts France and Britain had run up? Why would they then want to knock one of the Allied powers out of the war?

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Jul 9 2007 00:04
Jack wrote:
MJ wrote:
Are you just rebelling against your anarchosyndicalist family or something? Capital isn't maintained "behind closed doors".

Furthermore loans aren't a "tranfusion of wealth," do you even know what "loan" means??

He's not one of us!

Pardon?

Terry
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Jul 9 2007 00:05

BTW did the Bolsheviks honour the Russian Empire's debt? Was there some kind of compensation for the confisicated foriegn investments in Russian industry?

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Jul 9 2007 00:10
Jack wrote:
MJ wrote:
Jack wrote:
MJ wrote:
Are you just rebelling against your anarchosyndicalist family or something? Capital isn't maintained "behind closed doors".

Furthermore loans aren't a "tranfusion of wealth," do you even know what "loan" means??

He's not one of us!

Pardon?

He's not an anarcho-syndicalist. He's from your family.

From the "what strand are you?" thread:

daniel wrote:
Libertarian communist, from a family of anarcho-syndicalists
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Jul 9 2007 00:18
Jack wrote:
Jesus, do you have his picture in your locker?

Hey don't get all angry at me for not doing things halfassed.

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Jul 9 2007 00:38
Jack wrote:
I'm mostly just surprised you haven't given revol the same treatment, and raised the time he got on stage with ska-punk band 'Capdown' to sing along to their classic "All coppers are bastards", to be honest.

He's not in the US though, who cares what his politics are.