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Anarchism and theatrics

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BrazillianJiuJitsu1992's picture
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Jan 8 2012 16:17
Anarchism and theatrics

How do we get anarchism focused on working class organising and militancy, whats the point of things like the black block and other supposed militant actions.

Anarchism can only come about if the workers all come together and take control of the mop and organise and revolt in a real way, what does dressing all in black and breaking shit and chanting do?

It seems like its more alienating to workers than aything else.

Why don't anarchists just dress normally and discuss real issues and try practical things to build up a movement?

It seems their is always some kind of subculture like punk or vegans whenever anarchists are about at rallies etc and its never seemingly a normal woman or bloke in a pair of jeans and a shirt talking to a worker about his pension or his pay etc.

Did the anarchist movement go through the same collapse as the MLM crowd did and dissolve into little sects and subcultures?

Action now please don't troll this thread because this is a genuine question ffs.

Toms's picture
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Jan 8 2012 16:24

I kinda liked this article.

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Jan 8 2012 16:49

In reference to the link, I am not saying property damage is wrong in any way I am saying in the context of the black block its stupid, whats the point, if it was a bunch of workers smashing into a band in militant fashion great, if its a bunch of uni kids and a few workers with no mass support its pretty fucking stupic surely?

These kind of adventurist stunts seem eliteist and dont do anything for me or my workmates or any other workers. It seems like the old RAF abandoning mass movement type scenario. comparing it to mass action and violence of the past whic were not disconnected with the masses is a little dishonest to say the least.

action_now
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Jan 8 2012 16:57

the point is that the black bloc is anonymity. so how do you know the make-up of it?

and dude, your hatin' on 'uni kids' is boring.

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Jan 8 2012 16:57

omg fuck off haha i mean i like you and all but seriously dude.

Also I am pretty sure my branding the black block as uni kids is pretty spot on. Maybe I am wrong though (sniggers)

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Jan 8 2012 17:03
BrazillianJiuJitsu1992 wrote:
Why don't anarchists just dress normally and discuss real issues and try practical things to build up a movement?

Well, I don't know about normal but I dress pretty fucking sharp! wink Seriously though, I'd say a lot of anarchists are doing stuff like this but it just goes by unoticed by most people due to the small size of the anarchist movement (especially as there's more mileage in a 'baby-eating anarchist' newspaper article than an 'anarchist workplace organiser' one!)..

I can't speak in general, but Solfed have had all sorts of successes recently, like the Office Angels campaign, a more recent one at the Hartley pub and we supported some IWW cleaners at Brunel Uni. Not to mention the successes had by a member working on the London Underground.

So yeah, anarchists do get around and do things other than smashing shop windows and wearing black, but it might be harder to get hold of info about that sort of thing..

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Jan 8 2012 17:14

@Brazilian

Good points made. Personally, I see less of the lifestylers these days, but then again they probably don't want to hang with an auld fart. I remembering thinking those thoughts years back and wondered wtf it had to do with class politics. But then, as time has went by, I suppose I've come to think that cultures are thrown up in the least expected places. As for Black Bloc methods/actions - not sure who these people are, I just don't like it.

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Jan 8 2012 17:17
BrazillianJiuJitsu1992 wrote:
In reference to the link, I am not saying property damage is wrong in any way I am saying in the context of the black block its stupid, whats the point, if it was a bunch of workers smashing into a band in militant fashion great, if its a bunch of uni kids and a few workers with no mass support its pretty fucking stupic surely?

These kind of adventurist stunts seem eliteist and dont do anything for me or my workmates or any other workers. It seems like the old RAF abandoning mass movement type scenario. comparing it to mass action and violence of the past whic were not disconnected with the masses is a little dishonest to say the least.

This reminds me that I have a text by the Cangaceiros called "Defensa incondicional de los vândalos del 1 de Deciembre" that deals a lot with what your asking. I'll try to translate it next week and put it in the Library (I'm already translating something at the moment, so I can't do that now)

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Jan 8 2012 17:21

I dont train on sundays and have been looking for some way to get active in a real practical way but I just cba going to another rally or march as I don't see the point I wanna actually do something, is there any point in staring some community programs that are not nescisarily revolutionary, like some kind of care netwrok for the older people round here who have no one to help em out or maybe a homeless meals on wheels thing lol.

I can just see it being pointless though, plus me being somewhat of a depressive mincer means after the first week it will be me and one other guy and ill just top myself out of frustration grin

ED can you recomend any practical thing to do that dont involve students flags and chants?

cheers.

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Jan 8 2012 17:23
Toms wrote:
BrazillianJiuJitsu1992 wrote:
In reference to the link, I am not saying property damage is wrong in any way I am saying in the context of the black block its stupid, whats the point, if it was a bunch of workers smashing into a band in militant fashion great, if its a bunch of uni kids and a few workers with no mass support its pretty fucking stupic surely?

These kind of adventurist stunts seem eliteist and dont do anything for me or my workmates or any other workers. It seems like the old RAF abandoning mass movement type scenario. comparing it to mass action and violence of the past whic were not disconnected with the masses is a little dishonest to say the least.

This reminds me that I have a text by the Cangaceiros called "Defensa incondicional de los vândalos del 1 de Deciembre" that deals a lot with what your asking. I'll try to translate it next week and put it in the Library (I'm already translating something at the moment, so I can't do that now)

Cheers mate <3

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Jan 8 2012 18:12
BrazillianJiuJitsu1992 wrote:
ED can you recomend any practical thing to do that dont involve students flags and chants?

Honestly mate, I don't get your random hatred of anything involving students, flags or chants.. all of them can be useful in different situations and I can't promise you that my suggestions won't attract them at some point..

But anyway, two of the things above (Office Angels and The Hartley) I think are really small things that people can get started with even just with people around them. I mean, if you've got a mate that hasn't been paid or is being fucked over by their landlord/boss or whatever then you can just talk to your mates, their family, whoever and see if they fancy kicking up a fuss.. another good example would be basically everything Seattle Solidarity Network do, ever..

Obviously if you've never done it before then it might be a bit a big task, but then that's what getting in touch with radical groups is for (even if you don't join, you can still ask for advice, either by email or on these forums)..

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Jan 8 2012 19:00

Now, don't get me wrong flaky uni students do piss me off (however much of that is a longing for me carefree uni days shagging around, not working, drinking, having a much better hairline and a much smaller beer gut wink ) but a lot of the folks who supported the OA campaign were uni students and the Hartley worker may have actually been a student.

In any case, I think a lot of things raised in the OP (basically not trying to alienate ourselves as a subcultural group) went into creating libcom in the first place all those years ago--giving UK anarchism a direct and practical class struggle focus, avoiding "activism", and, I agree, dressing like a normal person.

Also, this: http://solfed.org.uk/?q=organiser-training

That said, BJJ, don't you have anarchy and Mao tattoos?

EDIT: BJJ, didn't you join the IWW recently? Is it not what you'd hoped?

action_now
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Jan 8 2012 18:57

yes, we must abandon our own ideas and opinions on style in order to appear normal.

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Jan 8 2012 18:59

Yes because that's exactly what I said roll eyes

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Jan 8 2012 19:01

Mr. T

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Jan 8 2012 19:20

Uh-huh....

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Jan 8 2012 19:23

Students- BAGASHITE

wojtek
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Jan 8 2012 19:23

It's ironic because BJJ's maoism/ vanguardism =

tongue

I prefer this as a spectacle though (Chilean university students dressed as zombies in a 'Thriller' dance off smile ):

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Jan 8 2012 20:17

lol at the rather dashing zombie wedged inbetween a bunch of ugly zombies smile

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Jan 8 2012 20:31

For the record I don't hate all students I just think basing anarchist organising and activism in an unreliable bunch of people, many of whom don't work and come from the more priviledged parts of society compared to the average person is not a very good idea.

Also I think uni can be the time in their life to get into radical politics drink heavily then fuck off and get a nice comfy job and look back on the old crazy days etc.

Revolutionary groups should stop being like the swp and letting students wave banners in the name of the working class, the Anarchist groups should be bringing the ideas of anarchism to council estates that they live on and focusing on problems in working class areas with workers not students.

Thats just my opinion, its not like im doing much for the cause so fuck me anyway, I am just saying the whole student thing is tiring, unless the anarchists have thought wait, young naive drunk people, excellent and have lots of sex then thats pretty genius smile

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Jan 8 2012 20:58
BrazillianJiuJitsu1992 wrote:
For the record I don't hate all students I just think basing anarchist organising and activism in an unreliable bunch of people, many of whom don't work and come from the more priviledged parts of society compared to the average person is not a very good idea.

That is a silly thing to say, just because you don't work does not mean that you come from a position of privilege, unemployed people apparently have no clue what your work fetishment means. Plus, what is more alienating than saying that uni kids are all privileged and are crappy revolutionaries?! And your talk of privilege sickens me... Do you really believe that privilege defines class enemies if so yo must be ignoring your own privilege. Man, you sound like a super prole I wish I was as proletarian as you, teach me your ways.

The way I see it black blocs are visible alternatives. You want to join hop in, "the black bloc society" does not discriminate... They also are good ways for workers to attack anonymously see the Longview longshoreman who got the idea of dressing in black and smashing things from the black bloc.

tastybrain
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Jan 8 2012 21:05
boxtheanok wrote:
The way I see it black blocs are visible alternatives. You want to join hop in, "the black bloc society" does not discriminate... They also are good ways for workers to attack anonymously see the Longview longshoreman who got the idea of dressing in black and smashing things from the black bloc.

Is that really true? In all the pictures of it it looked like they were all just wearing normal clothes...

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Jan 8 2012 21:10
tastybrain wrote:
boxtheanok wrote:
Is that really true? In all the pictures of it it looked like they were all just wearing normal clothes...

Let me find a link

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Jan 8 2012 21:14

there weren't pics of the action....and yeah that's what has been said.

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Jan 8 2012 21:20

"One night a group of sneaky clandestine workers, most covered head-to-toe in black, stormed the gate of EGT and emptied the grain cars costing them an incredible loss of profit"
http://pugetsoundanarchists.org/node/923

I honestly cant find anything right now saying that they were directly influenced by black blocs so if you dont believe me you can atleast see the connection.

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Jan 8 2012 21:22
boxtheanok wrote:
"One night a group of sneaky clandestine workers, most covered head-to-toe in black, stormed the gate of EGT and emptied the grain cars costing them an incredible loss of profit"
http://pugetsoundanarchists.org/node/923

I honestly cant find anything right now saying that they were directly influenced by black blocs so if you dont believe me you can atleast see the connection.

there was another article where it says that they said they were influenced by seeing black blocs on the news.

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Jan 8 2012 21:24

great, that must have been where I got that idea from just couldnt find it

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Jan 8 2012 21:52

whatever no one round here would have anything to do with a group in the area if it had students in it.

People on the dole obviously don't share the privilege that middle class students do you miff lol. anyway what happened to your relation to the mop and your material conditions being the basis of if you were revolutionary?

Do you honestly think a well off middle class tosser is going to risk his swag for a revolution? not a fucking chance.

action_now
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Jan 8 2012 21:55

people wouldn't work with people in a mutually beneficial project because they happened to be students? jeez, what morons.

looks like you really need to get out more if you reckon all students are 'middle class tossers'.

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Jan 8 2012 21:59

whine whine whine

action_now
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Jan 8 2012 22:05

yea.

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