The Underground newspaper

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 27 2007 08:15
oisleep wrote:
writing articles for newswires and stuff is all pretty much internally focussed stuff isn't it

the libcom newswire isn't intended to be just inward looking, it got loads of referrals from google news over the postie wildcats and the cpe coverage was massively read, although obviously the kind of people who subscribe to a class struggle newswire's rss feed are almost tautologically on the 'inside' already, but the articles are written in such a way as to make sense to someone not versed in anarcho/left politics

TheUnderground
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Apr 27 2007 09:45

The cause -

I guess this would be a big answer but i'll try to break it down.

a) The spreading of Anarchist ideas - Getting it out there to the people who dont know what anarchism or communism or even socialism is. There are so so many people in the UK who have no idea what this is, all they know is work, beer and footy.

b) Helping Anarchist groups work more efficiently, find out what they are doing and how they are doing it, connecting other Anarchist groups up so that we all know they best/cheapest/easiest ways of doing something are.

So in general the furtherment of Anarchism.

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 27 2007 11:10

Belfast give him a break, he needs support not insults.

TU I know work, beer, footy and anarchism, communism and socialism. Any anarchist who doesn't follow football is clearly a middle class prick. smile

tigersiskillers
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Apr 27 2007 14:00

Rob, I'd suggest you take some time, look at what is going on in terms of groups and publications, maybe do a bit of reading and think about your politics, what you want to get involved in and where you feel you can contribute best.

The thing is, don't expect to change the world overnight. By being part of something you help build change. You improve the chances of things happening.

Don't set yourself apart from or above society. You're enthusiastic aboout anarchist ideas, but it's not religion and you're (we're) not John the Baptist bringing the light to the ignorant masses.

Your comment on work beer and footy deserved Revol's comment. And I don't even like football, making me a middle class prick.

The paper did get a slagging here, but I'd suggest that a lot of this was from frustration at what looked like a waste of resources, a fairly cavalier attitude to what else was already in existence, and what was objectively a poor looking paper. I think you have a right to start a publication if you feel there is a gap or something wrong with what else is out there, but this has to be done realistically and with a clear understanding of why you are doing something new. I don't like all the anarcho media (some stuff's good, some not) and would be interested in something that put lib socialist ideas in a form that didn't alienate people outside our little world, but I don't really see the viability of a publication with this outreach objective at the moment.

And to be honest, was the failure of the paper due to comments here or the fact no one bought it?

TheUnderground
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Apr 27 2007 14:29

I am a nottingham forest fan, have been for years, whats your point you fucking prick?

Making people aware of Anarchism makes you angry? What a twat.

TheUnderground
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Apr 27 2007 14:30

Oh and by the way, it doesnt have to be publication based with any Anarchist involvment that I undertake in future.

TheUnderground
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Apr 27 2007 14:34

I made tha comment becase it sums up many people that I know personally. I get on with them, they are a laugh and have enjoyed many a pint with them, they still need to be made aware of Anarchism though.

TheUnderground
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Apr 27 2007 14:37

We got about £50 so thats about 100 sales (though I havnt checked if any where sold in Freedom yet.

Closure was caused primarily due to no support from the Anarchist community which is not all LibCom but involves it to some degree.

TheUnderground
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Apr 27 2007 14:46

Im not expecting a hey presto over night instant "conversion" LOL

Because Forest are a bunch of muppets, Damn I hope they get automatic promotion, batsards.

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Tacks
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Jul 31 2007 17:06

you take it all back now? grin

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Felix Frost
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Aug 1 2007 13:44
stinkerbell wrote:
TheUnderground wrote:
We would take 50% control of Freedom in exchange for our members, finances, time, and abilities etc, not a column or two.

We've discussed it at Now or Never! and you can have a 50% stake of us in return for the following;

Editor - a 2nd hand Nintendo DS
Harry K - a bottle of vodka ice
Sub Ed - some red leopard print pumps, size 5

I'll check that no-one else has any other demands, but as it stands, this is our offer.

The Underground's website wrote:
Latest Information

Dear Comrades, The Underground has joined forces with Now or Never! In other words, The Underground does not exist anymore; instead we work with Now or Never! Our resources have been combined. Therefore there will not be an Issue 2 of The Underground.

grin
I guess it was just too good an offer to refuse...

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Tacks
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Aug 1 2007 16:19

oh its alright. Production was pretty good.

Its a zine really.

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Rob Ray
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Aug 1 2007 16:23

I've got a soft spot for NoN!, it's a good bit of fun and doesn't take itself too seriously.

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Rob Ray
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Aug 1 2007 17:37

gdid is a punk?

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Inigo Montoya
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Aug 2 2007 10:36

Picked up the paper in London. Feels like something i would have tried to do maybe 3/4 years ago, before Anarchist Youth.

Fair play to them for at least making the effort.

jack white
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Aug 2 2007 18:11

GDID you're turning into libcom*. It's scaring me. Please stop.

*libcom circa a while ago. Scarier still.

stinkerbell
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Aug 4 2007 20:19
guydebordisdead wrote:
'Now or Never' was the 2nd worst anarchist paper after the underground. Congratulations to all involved.

Why thank you smile

Have you seen a recent copy (I seem to remember you saying elsewhere that you hadn't seen it for a very long time)? If you'd like to contribute anything to it, we'd be happy to recieve any submissions you may have that you feel would make it a better paper - if so let me know and I'll PM you details. Likewise if you'd like me to send you a more up to date issue if you haven't seen one.

stinkerbell
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Aug 4 2007 20:43
guydebordisdead wrote:
That sounds fair enough, last copy I saw was at london's bookfair. I already contribute to several papers so I don't think I can take you up on your offer. You guys have the fuck hari-krishna shirts yeh? I think I just don't 'get' your motivation, maybe it's not aimed at me though.

The last copy had a pirate theme and was purple - it's the one with the IWW/Starbucks Union interview in the middle. If you haven't got it and want to check it out PM me.
No fuck Hari-krishna tshirts....you might mean the Free Tibet (From Monks) one onr maybe the Krishna was a nazi one.

Yeah, top be honest it doesn't sound like we're your cup of tea, and we probably didn't we had you in mind either (no offence meant, you just can't please everyone all the time!) but we like to represent as many views as possible, and try and make sure that there's something for everyone - even if you think the rest of the paper's shite hopefully they'll be something of interest to you in it, and like I said if you ever do feel you'd like to contribute something please feel free.

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Bubbles
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Aug 4 2007 21:38
stinkerbell wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
That sounds fair enough, last copy I saw was at london's bookfair. I already contribute to several papers so I don't think I can take you up on your offer. You guys have the fuck hari-krishna shirts yeh? I think I just don't 'get' your motivation, maybe it's not aimed at me though.

The last copy had a pirate theme and was purple - it's the one with the IWW/Starbucks Union interview in the middle. If you haven't got it and want to check it out PM me.
No fuck Hari-krishna tshirts....you might mean the Free Tibet (From Monks) one onr maybe the Krishna was a nazi one.

Yeah, top be honest it doesn't sound like we're your cup of tea, and we probably didn't we had you in mind either (no offence meant, you just can't please everyone all the time!) but we like to represent as many views as possible, and try and make sure that there's something for everyone - even if you think the rest of the paper's shite hopefully they'll be something of interest to you in it, and like I said if you ever do feel you'd like to contribute something please feel free.

even if you have at least one thing in the paper that someone might like, why would someone keep reading that even though they thought the paper was mostly crap?

stinkerbell
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Aug 4 2007 22:13
x357997 wrote:
[

even if you have at least one thing in the paper that someone might like, why would someone keep reading that even though they thought the paper was mostly crap?

I don't know that they would keep reading it, but hopefully the majority of our readers don't think that it's totally crap. Also it would be impossible to have at least one thing for everyone in one publication anyway. What I meant is it's impossible to print something that everyone would like 100% of, but that we try and have a quite broad range of views/articles so that hopefully there's something for everyone, and fingers crossed there'll be something that is of interest to guydebordisdead despite the fact that he really doesn't like the paper.

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Bubbles
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Aug 4 2007 23:29
stinkerbell wrote:
x357997 wrote:
[

even if you have at least one thing in the paper that someone might like, why would someone keep reading that even though they thought the paper was mostly crap?

I don't know that they would keep reading it, but hopefully the majority of our readers don't think that it's totally crap. Also it would be impossible to have at least one thing for everyone in one publication anyway. What I meant is it's impossible to print something that everyone would like 100% of, but that we try and have a quite broad range of views/articles so that hopefully there's something for everyone, and fingers crossed there'll be something that is of interest to guydebordisdead despite the fact that he really doesn't like the paper.

but why would he keep reading it if he thought it was mostly crap and only one article that might interest him?

stinkerbell
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Aug 5 2007 01:10
x357997 wrote:
stinkerbell wrote:
x357997 wrote:
[

even if you have at least one thing in the paper that someone might like, why would someone keep reading that even though they thought the paper was mostly crap?

I don't know that they would keep reading it, but hopefully the majority of our readers don't think that it's totally crap. Also it would be impossible to have at least one thing for everyone in one publication anyway. What I meant is it's impossible to print something that everyone would like 100% of, but that we try and have a quite broad range of views/articles so that hopefully there's something for everyone, and fingers crossed there'll be something that is of interest to guydebordisdead despite the fact that he really doesn't like the paper.

but why would he keep reading it if he thought it was mostly crap and only one article that might interest him?

He probably wouldn't I guess....I'm not sure I really get your point. he said he didn't like the paper, I asked if he wanted a more recent copy, he said yes and I said hopefully they'd be at least one article that would interest him as it covers a broad range of issues.

I honestly don't get what you're driving at, unless you're just nitpicking about the way I worded my post?

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Bubbles
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Aug 5 2007 06:33

my experience with reading papers that have "something for everyone" as you have described is that most people think their crap until they come out with that one article every 6 months or a year that one group of people might read but they have generally lost interest in the paper because they think it is mostly crap. You should pick a audience and then attempt to convey your ideas to them and keep them interested.

stinkerbell
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Aug 5 2007 09:58
x357997 wrote:
my experience with reading papers that have "something for everyone" as you have described is that most people think their crap until they come out with that one article every 6 months or a year that one group of people might read but they have generally lost interest in the paper because they think it is mostly crap. You should pick a audience and then attempt to convey your ideas to them and keep them interested.

Thanks for your thoughts...we've been going for about 6 years now though so it's a bit late to change format! And the majority our readers seem pretty happy with the current style/content so we don't really see a need for change right now.

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Bubbles
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Aug 5 2007 18:47
stinkerbell wrote:
x357997 wrote:
my experience with reading papers that have "something for everyone" as you have described is that most people think their crap until they come out with that one article every 6 months or a year that one group of people might read but they have generally lost interest in the paper because they think it is mostly crap. You should pick a audience and then attempt to convey your ideas to them and keep them interested.

Thanks for your thoughts...we've been going for about 6 years now though so it's a bit late to change format! And the majority our readers seem pretty happy with the current style/content so we don't really see a need for change right now.

who are your readers, how many copies do you sell and how many subscribers do you have?

stinkerbell
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Aug 6 2007 09:19
x357997 wrote:

who are your readers, how many copies do you sell and how many subscribers do you have?

I'd say we have a really range range of readers, from young punks who buy it at gigs to middle class middle age women who buy it at little fete's we have stalls at! It really does seem to appeal to a wide range of people. We sell between 800-1000 of each copy and have approximately 60 subscibers.

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Tacks
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Aug 6 2007 15:23

...and that aint bad for one smallish city.

jack white
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Aug 6 2007 16:05

Actually its really good. How and where do ye do most of the sales?

stinkerbell
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Aug 6 2007 19:11

Thanks smile To be honest it should be a lot higher, we've had a few probalems with distribution so hopefully when we pull our thumbs out it should increas quite a bit - we don't seen to have a problem with the majority of people like it, it's just actually getting it out there, but we're working on that!
Subscribers have often come from publicity thing's we've done in the pastthat offer a free copy, ie we had a benefit CD with an advert, put it on the bottom of leaflets. About 50% of those that got a free copy are now subscribers. Sales - little local gigs (mainly due to the wonderful Coconut Man from Norwich Anarchists - cheers dude - who manages to get rid of about 150 each issue I reckon), we do a lot of stalls, the normal things like the bookfair, but any local events we can get to like street parties, community events etc, demos (we quite often get rid of about 100 at a big London one), big gigs, festivals like Glastonbury, local shops, zine distributions, comedy/theatre events that are vaugely radical, ie Mark Thomas...etc etc. We did try street sales but it was demoralising and made us want to cry as it's too much hard work for little return. Basically we pimp ourselves out at any given opportunity!