Planning a libertarian response to the London attacks

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Lazlo_Woodbine
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Jul 12 2005 17:53

Here's a fuller report about what I mentioned earlier

*********

Hi all, a vigil has been called against all terrorism for Friday 15th July, with the slogan 'London, Fallujah, No More Bombs'. It's to be held at 6pm in Altabali Park in East London.

In addition, at a snap meeting in London yesterday some of us agreed to push forward with the slogan 'Their war, our dead', which was the one raised in Spain that had the effect of turning the anger against the terrorist leaders of both 'sides'. We'll be making posters, stickers (t-shirts?) and banners and placards with this slogan on. Right now the idea is to network the slogan, rather than to make it the basis of any group -- it could be linked to an open publishing website where the diverse groups and individuals who feel an affinity to the slogan could express what they see it as meaning.

One thing we need to do is to design the slogan into a logo. Is anyone up for doing that? In order to propagate it, sympathetic websites could display it on their front page. Are any of you willing, in principle, to do this?

Please pass this message along your networks as far as possible.

Many thanks

gentle revolutionary
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Jul 13 2005 13:23

The "their war our dead" slogan seems too minimalistic. It doesn't even mention the Iraqi victims. I don't want to sound vain, but the first slogan is much more powerful. I know we live in a society with a short attention span, but this just seems going a bit too far in trying to "adjust", and isn't explicit enough in its class struggle perspective. StWC is going to cover the "moderate" position anyway.

There could/should be a shorter version for T-shirts, banners etc., but posters (and even stickers) can carry a little bit more information.

There's going to be a G8 debrief at ramparts on Friday and some people will deal with this question there. I'll post the details later.

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Jul 13 2005 13:43
gentle revolutionary wrote:
The "their war our dead" slogan seems too minimalistic. It doesn't even mention the Iraqi victims. I don't want to sound vain, but the first slogan is much more powerful.

Do you mean the formulation 'the wars are yours, the deaths are ours' that you mentioned before, or another one?

BB
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Jul 13 2005 16:01
gentle revolutionary wrote:
The "their war our dead" slogan seems too minimalistic. It doesn't even mention the Iraqi victims.

I'm sorry but 'the wars are yours, the deaths are ours' i can't see a single letter I in there. They're saying exactly the same thing, no?

Vaneigemappreci...
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Jul 14 2005 10:36

Yeah good post laz, especially the bit about the 'war on terror' being essentially a pretext for an assault on the working class and a means to justify wars for profit as well as being a distraction from the shit that the ruling class has created all around.

I think its important that whatever is written is set out concisely and thoughtfully (i really dont think the BNPs leaflet with a picture of the bus and the caption 'perhaps its time to start listening to the BNP' will do them any favours). As long as it has the main points of the 'war on terror' being a pretext like the 'war on drugs' 'war on communism' etc, the fact that the main victims on both 'sides' are working class, the fact that the event will be used to promulgate increasingly reactionary legislation that will be used to monitor/censor average people, the fact that the 'war' benefits both the government and religous fundamentalism, the fact that Islam and terrorism is no threat whatsoever to the british government or the ruling elite and that their relationship is one of mutual benefit etc, are mentioned then thats the main thing.

gentle revolutionary
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Jul 14 2005 13:55
Quote:
Do you mean the formulation 'the wars are yours, the deaths are ours' that you mentioned before, or another one?

Yes, that with the additional three lines mentioned in the "Posters' & Stickers' Campaign" thread in the Organise section - http://libcom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5815

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Jul 14 2005 15:07

Well feel free to put your spin on the ones you do, but for now I feel most comfortable with the general statement that allows for maximum unity.

Garner
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Jul 14 2005 16:27

Actually, I think the best slogan I've seen so far is 'London, Fallujah, No More Bombs'.

The link to Iraq is clear, and it doesn't contain a vague us/them statement which could be confusing to people who won't necessarily realise that 'us' is the working class and 'them' is the ruling class.

'the wars are yours, the deaths are ours' is particularly bad since it attributes the wars to the reader.

redyred
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Jul 14 2005 23:26
Garner wrote:
Actually, I think the best slogan I've seen so far is 'London, Fallujah, No More Bombs'.

The link to Iraq is clear, and it doesn't contain a vague us/them statement which could be confusing to people who won't necessarily realise that 'us' is the working class and 'them' is the ruling class.

'the wars are yours, the deaths are ours' is particularly bad since it attributes the wars to the reader.

Agree totally. 'the wars are yours, the deaths are ours' is just taking the wrong tack for the sake of a catchy soundbite.

gentle revolutionary
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Jul 15 2005 08:57
Garner wrote:
Actually, I think the best slogan I've seen so far is 'London, Fallujah, No More Bombs'.

Yeah, it does sound very good. I'd support it. A question to think about is whether StWC also plans to use it.

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the button
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Jul 15 2005 09:07
Garner wrote:
"the wars are yours, the deaths are ours' is particularly bad since it attributes the wars to the reader.

Not if you have a picture of Blair & Bush on the poster, like the one I made for the 2 minutes silence yesterday.

Vaneigemappreci...
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Jul 15 2005 09:32

"the wars are theirs, the deaths are ours"

kind of negates the idea that the accusation is directed at the reader doesnt it?

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the button
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Jul 15 2005 09:34

Actually, my poster says, "Their war [pic of Tony & George] Our dead." (I just checked embarrassed )

Vaneigemappreci...
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Jul 15 2005 09:53

your allowed to take your posters to work with you?! Doesnt sound like you need a union mate, you basically turn up to work and plot the revolution from your computer screen! Easy life ay! I wonder what would happen if your boss was able to see what hours you spend on the net, would they demand your wages back due to the abhorent lack of work undertaken?

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the button
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Jul 15 2005 09:56

I'm more than allowed to take posters to work with me -- I made it on my work computer. 8)

I've done fuck all this week, 'cause the computer network's been down since Tuesday lunchtime, and all I've had access to is internet & e-mail. Came back on at 1015 this morning, though, and as you can see, I'm hard at it.

Vaneigemappreci...
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Jul 15 2005 10:06

whenever that time of the day arrives (usually around 9.10am) i can always rely on yourself avoiding the workload, really soothes that terrible guilt which aflicts me whenever i use the net at work wink

Quote:
I'm more than allowed to take posters to work with me -- I made it on my work computer.

Nice, talk of using the their machinery to subvert the status quo!

Garner
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Jul 15 2005 11:12
the button wrote:
Actually, my poster says, "Their war [pic of Tony & George] Our dead." (I just checked embarrassed )

Yeah, that makes it a lot clearer.

I still prefer 'London, Fallujah, No More Bombs' though. Unless the trots are using it, of course. Anyone know who's organising the thing in Altab Ali park?

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oisleep
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Jul 15 2005 11:26

'London, Fallujah, No More Bombs' - does sound like a trot slogan, and doesn't really attack the cause of the bombs, just telling it to stop sounds like shouting for world peace or make poverty history

i like "their wars (insert picture) our deaths (insert picture)" like what button has, it's more universal as well (why doesn't chechyna, madrid, bali etc.. get a mention, why just london & fallujah)