No strike clauses and the IWW

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fnbrill's picture
fnbrill
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Dec 21 2007 05:08
thugarchist wrote:
fnbrill, Its totally fair. If some local in my union fucks up something somewhere the wobs and the trots over a solidarity go after my whole union. Good for the goose and whatnot.

That I agree with. The IWW should be held to the standards it preaches. My interest was accuracy - that kind of fair.

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thugarchist
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Dec 21 2007 05:14
fnbrill wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
fnbrill, Its totally fair. If some local in my union fucks up something somewhere the wobs and the trots over a solidarity go after my whole union. Good for the goose and whatnot.

That I agree with. The IWW should be held to the standards it preaches. My interest was accuracy - that kind of fair.

Sure, but you'll have to forgive me for a little bit of fun with this stuff.

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fnbrill
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Dec 21 2007 05:15
thugarchist wrote:
Sure, but you'll have to forgive me for a little bit of fun with this stuff.

There's no fun in fnbrill without a u

severin
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Dec 21 2007 05:21

my diagnosis is that a bunch of essentially liberal social democrat type kids enter the IWW posing as syndicalists and then once they realize they are in a 'union' they start acting like a baby in love with its own shit and playing all the games that unions play.

complete with the bluster of fake militancy and heaps of self congratulatory horseshit over what is essentially wanton class collaboration.

and getting validated by old-schoolers in these efforts as well, apparently.

look mommy, i got a grandfather clause.

they dont want power to destroy the capitalist system, they want power within the system-nickels and dimes, even at the expense of their fellow workers- even if it means pulling all the bullshit the unions the IWW was formed to counter do so well.

the true radicals in the IWW should file off and basically establish a network of 'work group' cells and dispense with legality and contracts alltogether. they can still use the concerted action laws and shit... just dont get mired in the 'business' of being a 'union' at all.

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thugarchist
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Dec 21 2007 05:25
fnbrill wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
Sure, but you'll have to forgive me for a little bit of fun with this stuff.

There's no fun in fnbrill without a u

Well, you're just lucky I'm enjoying being your foil.

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Dec 21 2007 05:29

Wasn't there some sort of story about the ABCF donating a building to the wobs in Philly and it somehow ended up being owned by Bekken and him charging the wobs rent in it or something?

severin
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Dec 21 2007 05:32
thugarchist wrote:
Wasn't there some sort of story about the ABCF donating a building to the wobs in Philly and it somehow ended up being owned by Bekken and him charging the wobs rent in it or something?

so he's a landlord as well. ain' that cute?

"That's just one of the many creative contradictions of socialism."
- FW Josef Stalin

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Dec 21 2007 05:34
thugarchist wrote:
Wasn't there some sort of story about the ABCF donating a building to the wobs in Philly and it somehow ended up being owned by Bekken and him charging the wobs rent in it or something?

Thats bullshit, he happened across some money and bought it. The IWW rents it for far below market rate.

severin
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Dec 21 2007 05:38

if he OWNS it outright, then he should have just given it to you guys.

period. end of discussion.

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Dec 21 2007 05:40

I don't think anyone's claiming its a perfect situation, however his wife was the only paid officer of the union for 5 years and didn't collect that salary during four of those years. Out to make a profit off of the union they are not.

severin
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Dec 21 2007 05:44
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he might be a fuckwit social democrat but he's not that fucking silly

i would rather be 'that silly'- that is, capable of showing the proper gesture of solidarity and mutual aid--than be a fuckwit social democrat.

and if this lady didn't accept pay, that's her passive aggressive fucking problem. martyrdom as leverage. take the money and do the fucking job right.

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Dec 21 2007 05:48
OliverTwister wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
Wasn't there some sort of story about the ABCF donating a building to the wobs in Philly and it somehow ended up being owned by Bekken and him charging the wobs rent in it or something?

Thats bullshit, he happened across some money and bought it. The IWW rents it for far below market rate.

So the building was donated to the wobs for free. He bought it from the wobs. Who was GST who sold it to him? Anyhoo, so he bought the free building from the wobs and now rents it to them? But its not a shady deal because he rents it below what? Market? Haahahahaha. No offense but this whole deal is wicked illegal. If anything like that happened in a mainstream union you guys would write an article about union corruption.

severin
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Dec 21 2007 05:52

do either of these people still hold office in the IWW?
can someone answer that?

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Dec 21 2007 05:54
revol68 wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
OliverTwister wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
Wasn't there some sort of story about the ABCF donating a building to the wobs in Philly and it somehow ended up being owned by Bekken and him charging the wobs rent in it or something?

Thats bullshit, he happened across some money and bought it. The IWW rents it for far below market rate.

So the building was donated to the wobs for free. He bought it from the wobs. Who was GST who sold it to him? Anyhoo, so he bought the free building from the wobs and now rents it to them? But its not a shady deal because he rents it below what? Market? Haahahahaha. No offense but this whole deal is wicked illegal. If anything like that happened in a mainstream union you guys would write an article about union corruption.

you really couldn't make this shit up!

Keep in mind you're taking Duke's words at face value.

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thugarchist
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Dec 21 2007 05:56
OliverTwister wrote:
revol68 wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
OliverTwister wrote:
thugarchist wrote:
Wasn't there some sort of story about the ABCF donating a building to the wobs in Philly and it somehow ended up being owned by Bekken and him charging the wobs rent in it or something?

Thats bullshit, he happened across some money and bought it. The IWW rents it for far below market rate.

So the building was donated to the wobs for free. He bought it from the wobs. Who was GST who sold it to him? Anyhoo, so he bought the free building from the wobs and now rents it to them? But its not a shady deal because he rents it below what? Market? Haahahahaha. No offense but this whole deal is wicked illegal. If anything like that happened in a mainstream union you guys would write an article about union corruption.

you really couldn't make this shit up!

Keep in mind you're taking Duke's words at face value.

Are you saying its not true? I fucking dare you to say its not true.

severin
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Dec 21 2007 06:02

grin grin grin grin grin

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Dec 21 2007 06:05
revol68 wrote:

I think Bekken and Alexis own that factory in the background.

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Dec 21 2007 06:17

I could be wrong about this but I'm fairly certain that Alexis, Bekkens now wife, was the GST who sold him the building from the wobs and then agreed to rent it from him on behalf of the wobs. So its like a totally legit deal and stuff.

pgh2a
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Dec 21 2007 06:19

I think there may be two buildings being confused. The old HQ in Philly used to be in a fairly dilapidated structure, and it moved around late 2002 if I recall correctly. I have never heard of any ABCF donation, and I would have definately heard if it the most recent HQ in Philly was donated to the IWW. I just don't see that happening.

Do a title search if you are interested in actually figuring this out, supersleuths. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

severin
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Dec 21 2007 06:21

....................unbelievable................
.

eek

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thugarchist
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Dec 21 2007 06:22
pghwob wrote:
I think there may be two buildings being confused. The old HQ in Philly used to be in a fairly dilapidated structure, and it moved around late 2002 if I recall correctly. I have never heard of any ABCF donation, and I would have definately heard if it the most recent HQ in Philly was donated to the IWW. I just don't see that happening.

Do a title search if you are interested in actually figuring this out, supersleuths. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

You do a title search. Its your little fiefdom of a union.

pgh2a
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Dec 21 2007 06:25

I believe you have the burden of proof, as you are the one making accusations.

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Dec 21 2007 06:27
pghwob wrote:
I believe you have the burden of proof, as you are the one making accusations.

I'm just some internet wanker and have no accountability. I'm fairly certain the business practices of your union should simply be open to its members and then you'd have your answers available to you. Wobs can look at the books from Alexis' reign any time they want right?

pgh2a
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Dec 21 2007 06:35
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Duke wrote:
I'm just some internet wanker and have no accountability.

Right you are.

Quote:
Wobs can look at the books from Alexis' reign any time they want right?

Right again. I guess a broken clock is right twice a day.

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Dec 21 2007 06:39
pghwob wrote:
Quote:
Duke wrote:
I'm just some internet wanker and have no accountability.

Right you are.

Quote:
Wobs can look at the books from Alexis' reign any time they want right?

Right again. I guess a broken clock is right twice a day.

So Bekken doesn't threaten charges everytime someone asks to see Alexis' books? C'mon dude. I know as many wobs as you do.

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Dec 21 2007 06:40

Then you should know that this has been dealt with at 3 different general assemblies.

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Dec 21 2007 06:47
OliverTwister wrote:
Then you should know that this has been dealt with at 3 different general assemblies.

And yet never resolved. Interesting. Look. If you believe in the ideals of the IWW, and I certainly think folks like pghwob do (you'll flip your politics in another 6 months) then you stop the things you don't agree with. Fairly simple. The reality here is that y'all got the same conflicts and issues as any other union (or other organization of any kind) only you preach that you don't. You complain about the legalistic bent of mainstream unions, you preach against little power-fiefdoms in mainstream unions, you preach against bad contracts in mainstream unions, yadda yadda yadda. Go clean your own house. You got more problems like this per contract and per member than any union of any size. This shit is hilarious.

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Dec 21 2007 06:57
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You complain about the legalistic bent of mainstream unions, you preach against little power-fiefdoms in mainstream unions, you preach against bad contracts in mainstream unions, yadda yadda yadda. Go clean your own house.

Well i'm active in trying to change things in the iww, not in other unions. Keep in mind i was the one who mentioned the no-strike-clauses in the first place. I think this stuff is a big problem.

IN other words i agree with you.

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Dec 21 2007 06:59
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
You complain about the legalistic bent of mainstream unions, you preach against little power-fiefdoms in mainstream unions, you preach against bad contracts in mainstream unions, yadda yadda yadda. Go clean your own house.

Well i'm active in trying to change things in the iww, not in other unions. Keep in mind i was the one who mentioned the no-strike-clauses in the first place. I think this stuff is a big problem.

IN other words i agree with you.

Well then don't get all sore-tushy when people bring it up.

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Dec 21 2007 07:10
thugarchist wrote:
OliverTwister wrote:
Quote:
You complain about the legalistic bent of mainstream unions, you preach against little power-fiefdoms in mainstream unions, you preach against bad contracts in mainstream unions, yadda yadda yadda. Go clean your own house.

Well i'm active in trying to change things in the iww, not in other unions. Keep in mind i was the one who mentioned the no-strike-clauses in the first place. I think this stuff is a big problem.

IN other words i agree with you.

Well then don't get all sore-tushy when people bring it up.

I'm wary just to wade back into this conversation again, but you and revol are having a little wank fest over all this (complete with pictures), excuse us for the 'sore tushies.' It just seems if you were concerned with addressing these issues and had to remotest bit of faith in the IWW (or even its ideals), the dynamic of this conversation would be vastly different.