NIHILIST — Ukrainian anarchist online zine

Ah, here is the crux of the problem - I thought anarchism was an anti-state, anti-capitalist political philosophy. My mistake.

Telling someone over a web forum that enthusiastically joining their states military doesn't accord with anarchist principles is not the same thing as "trying to enforce other people to follow you and worship you as a master". Where are you getting this from?

As you and your Ukrainian comrades have established (and who am i, a humble lacky of British imperialism, to disagree?), people are not allowed to comment on what anarchist movements in other countries are doing, whether it has been succesful, makes any sense, or is even anarchism

EDIT:

The folks at NIHILIST have joined their states army, as have the neo-nazis of the Azov battalion.

Let me try. First, the choice that you are implying (join the national army) is never available to all, for a variety of reasons (health, age, gender). Second, in a life-or-death situation (unlike the frozen conflict of the present), it's common sense to fight for bare survival. If individual anarchists wanting to survive and protect their families etc. see no choice but to enlist, then so be it, but they should not confuse this with anarchist or any sort of progressive political activity, and they should not try to cover this up with defencist ideology. It's better to abandon any pretense than to spread illusions. Third, given the absence of any wider workers' movement or any influence of anarchists in Ukrainian society, the idea of a separate workers' militia is an illusion. In this situation, if there's a choice, I think it's always better to opt for retreat, to try to preserve anarchist militants and their organization, and if circumstances allow that, try to put forward the classical internationalist and defeatist positions, and put them in practice, whether through open or illegal activity. Otherwise, avoid the draft and wait it out, or seek exile.

And see also my April 20th comment added to this library item here;
https://libcom.org/library/anti-imperialism-idiots-leila-al-shami
See also relevant critical discussion of the history of Irish Republicanism elsewhere on this site.

I dont think Jura does, but you do have that experience, and yet you still manage to be wrong so I'm not sure what benefit that experience would give them?

Actually lots of Irish people and British people were, are, and have been friendly with one another, because people who haven't 100% bought into nationalist politics are capable of recognising that the population of a country and the state that run it are two different things. Shocking, i know.

This is an absolutely absurd thing to compare the situation in Ukraine with. Surely you can see that?

No, for some people there simply isn't.

Why are you trying to make this about personal experience? Pretty much anything can be "justified" by pointing to incommensurable personal experiences.

Second, your simple logic that a post-colonial situation of imperial agression warrants anarchist support for "national defense" means that anarchists should have supported the Viet Cong or a number of other anti-working class movements, parties, and governments.

Third, I think that your analysis of Ukraine as a "post-colonial country" is just flawed. Ukraine wasn't a colony of Soviet Russia/the USSR.

I meant more the preservation of an anarchist movement for when the situation normalizes – there will be no occupation of Ukraine by Russia and it seems pretty clear to me that this was never the intention. The intention was to create a zone of low-intensity conflict that currently seems to have been frozen.

But if the intention had been to occupy Ukraine, then yes, preparing for workers' self-defense during the occupation would make sense, and I guess joining the army would be a way of doing that. But as long as the idea is simply to gain experience and access to equipment, it would not involve lending official support (by an anarchist organization) to the army. It would probably also involve stealing from the army and doing other things the state wouldn't find commendable.

No, it means opposing your national as well as international bourgeoisie, sabotaging their ideological, economic, political, and military efforts and seeking comradely relations with the working class of the opposing state(s). "No war but the class war", as the slogan goes.

Yes, there are plenty of examples (including the one you mention).

And again you seem to be saying something like "all Russians" deny Ukrainians their identity, langauge, and right for self-determination. It looks like you're a victim of your state's nationalist propaganda. Try looking at it from a class point of view for a change.

The goal would of course be to incite mass sabotage of the war effort, e.g., mass draft dodging, to prevent as many people as possible from going and dying.

A young American going to Canada instead of Vietnam also meant that someone else would have to go and perhaps die. I can't see how this justifies going.

The Ukrainians I've met in person who are living, studying, and working in my country, were doing OK. There are many others working on construction sites here. Like for other migrant workers, their situation is not great, but it seems they prefer it to staying in Ukraine. I guess the anarchist calls for defending the motherland haven't reached them.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot how great the war and cooperation with the Spanish state worked out for the CNT-FAI and world revolution. Also, where in Ukraine are the agricultural collectives, where is the CNT-FAI and POUM, where are the Mujeres Libres, where is anything that would be worth defending in a revolutionary war?