Mandela in London Feb 3 : MakePovertyHistory

Oh fuck off you liberal prick.

That's a liberal definition of liberalism if I've ever heard one!

You know what I mean when I say liberal. And Mandela and Make Poverty History can both fuck off. What a bunch of liberal reformist shite.

Quite. The fact that MPH have called their 'anti-poverty' demo in Edinburgh before the G8 leaders are even in the country tells you everything you need to know about them. Politics without confrontation. Now there's a definition of liberalism.

Miserably marching from A to B, motivated solely by a fear of death, completely coopted and incorporated into the spectacle and charade of modern capitalism.

So why waste your precious days getting so heavily involved (to the point that you're advertising its actions over message boards) in something you yourself see has such a limited scope that it's pretty much worthless??

I take the point that MPH raises issues - and I've met people who've arrived at (IMO) decent political positions through involvement with NGO campaigns organised around world poverty - but it's involved a steep learning curve!

If you pushed me, I'd say that MPH and the like are reformist organisations - like Old Labour or Trot groups they raise genuine issues, organise people around them, but then misdirect their energies towards activity which, however well-intentioned, reinforces both the State and capitalism - MPH appeals to Gordon Brown to drop debt in order to give third world countries a fair chance to 'compete', for example. I'd not waste my time with them if I were you.

Giving money to someone on the street might be an example of autonomous working class self-help, ordinary people doing something for each other, outside the process of capital circulation, without asking permission from the State. This is the exact opposite of what is happening on an NGO demonstration - going cap in hand to Gordon Brown, on behalf of 'third world' people, saying 'please sir, give us some concessions'. If you want to help people in indebted countries, try to form solidarity links with grass roots organisations. Alternatively, bizarre though it may seem, the best thing you can do to fight poverty worldwide is to fight capital in your own back-yard. That's my view, anyway.

Well you more or less are by your involvement in this campaign. Any organisation that begs capitalist leaders for reform are participating in the current system.

You claim MPH is a "start". A start for what exactly?? A fait accompli that Brown could wheel out as and when those on the left criticise his anti-working class policies?? A nice little piece of meat for the right wing press to rip through and point out the innaccuracies in, therefore painting anyone to the left of them as incompetent wishy washy hippies??

And that's not mentioning the fact that that organisation is only adding to the illusion of legitimisation that hangs over this current government by your protest methods.

If you really a revolutionary, I suggest you examine your involvement in this organisation very closely.