Lincoln's possible fascism

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Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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Nov 20 2013 13:31

Cross-posted with Serge. If I'm out of line questioning his membership in AF, btw, just tell me to piss off.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 13:54

Thanks for your concern. I'm going to be as clear as possible, listen anarchist (I'm satirising Chaz Bufe) I see rules as involuntary co-operation ie government and ethics as voluntary co-operation ie anarchist federations constitution. Afed isn't all about conformity and regimentation is it?

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 14:16

Off-topic, but what's people's opinion re abolition of money?

Serge Forward's picture
Serge Forward
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Nov 20 2013 14:48

No you're not out of line, Chilli. I just cannot believe Antianimalmass... is an actual AF member because to be a member, they would have to agree with our aims and principles (rules) and be met and approved by members of the organisation.

Oh, we also have a constitution (more rules) and we're not just 'open to class struggle' but are specifically a class struggle anarcho-communist organisation. I suspect this 'membership' is pure fantasy, because if not, I would very much like to find out who could have signed up someone to the AF who clearly has no idea of what we are about.

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Agent of the In...
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Nov 20 2013 15:33
anti wrote:
The system structures itself into what I call invisible totalitarianism, therefore it's their but people can't see it, because it's very subtle.

Um, that sounds like 'inverted totalitarianism', which was coined by Sheldon Wolin, and often promoted by Chris Hedges.

anti wrote:
The way to change people I think is counter-brainwash (not to brainwash someone with something different)/propaganda which I'm doing on an almost daily basis. I think the main effects they have on people is people thinking it's "natural", that hierarchy/survival of the fittest is a good thing and thinking capitalism (obviously without realising it's capitalism) is a lovely utopia.

So, how does this "counter-brainwash" work out?

A Really Short Story

Anti(reallylongname) gets on a bus, and standing next to the driver, he stares into the eyes of the stupified and bumbling ignorant masses, and says aloud "look everyone, your all brainwashed!" He gets some of their attention (most of them however are busy listening to music through their headphones, which doesn't surprise anti b/c he knows lots of people are complicit in their own brainwashing).

He smirks.

"Now which one of you folks will be lucky enough to sit next to me?"

He walks towards the back and sits near a big and tall fella, who kinda looks a lot like Javier Bardem. He turns his head towards his, and says "hi, today is your lucky day. You've been brainwashed your whole entire life. During the duration of this bus ride, I will de-brainwash you and liberate your mind."

The Bardem look alike stares back at him, doesn't even say anything.

"This process won't take long." And so he opens his mouth as wide as possible, and puts it over the man's head, covering one eye, as if trying to swallow an over-sized egg.

Some of them people behind them are stunned. Some of them remove their headphones.

Their jaws are dropping.

"Holy shit, what the fuck am I seeing?" screams one person.

Anti struggles to keep his de-brainwashing process going as the man tries to resist. The dude takes his right hand and pushes anti's head away from his, and uses his left hand to make one cold, hard swing knocking out anti for the rest of the ride. In fact, anti doesn't even get back up for his stop.

He lays on the dirty bus floor. Bruised and defeated, he would eventually wake up to contemplate what went wrong there.

"Guess I have to try better next time."

THE END

plasmatelly's picture
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Nov 20 2013 18:24

This is a wind up surely?

Tyrion's picture
Tyrion
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Nov 20 2013 18:52
Antianimalmassholocaustanarchist12 wrote:
I think people are to point of being vegetables brainwashed...My aim is through de-brainwashing so people can think for themselves

How lucky of these poor sheep to have someone so enlightened to help them.

Seriously, this is an incredibly condescending attitude and particularly unwarranted coming from someone's who made remarks such as

Antianimalmassholocaustanarchist12 wrote:
Soviet Union was certainly better than western capitalism.

and

Antianimalmassholocaustanarchist12 wrote:
I'm however open to class struggle as well, I just don't emphasise only workers. It should be everyone of the world unite not just workers.

and most of what else you've written in this thread that indicate a general ignorance of anarchism communism, class struggle, and the other topics to which you've referred.

Chilli Sauce's picture
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Nov 20 2013 21:59
Quote:
"This process won't take long." And so he opens his mouth as wide as possible, and puts it over the man's head, covering one eye, as if trying to swallow an over-sized egg.

So while this is very, very funny and anti is very, very wrong, we should keep in mind that s/he is a new poster.

[/end slight hypocrisy on my own behalf]

factvalue
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Nov 20 2013 21:22

Ant - as soon as you started asking for people's locations the warning sounds started going off and though it isn't wrong to keep asking where people live and if they are 'activists' if you're just trying to reach out it's fairly obviously going to have another more sinister meaning to anyone who's had dealings with the likes of the far right or the State so it isn't likely that anyone's going to tell a total stranger on here. Did you fantasise your AFed membership and if so why?

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 00:35

I realise it's similar to inverted totalitarianism. You've an excellent sense of humour. The way I'm trying to make people aware is though sticking leaflets/sticky notes/stickers, graffiti and stuff on the internet and other things.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 00:41

There's no need to be nasty. I do know what they're about, I asked earlier is afed about regimentation and conformity? I met with [name removed] (yorkie bar) form Leeds afed and I became a member. If you don't believe I met him, ask him his email address is [email address removed] or you could contact on him on Libcom, he's got an account. Afed also talks by the way know it all about brainwash.

Admin note - please do not post people's real names or email addresses.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 00:50

What fucking nasty intolerant people you are, people ARE FUcKInG brainwashed, it's NOT condescending, what a bunch of dogmatic (which anarchism is supposed to be against) authoritarian bastards, ban me now Libcom, I'm so sorry for defending myself against bullying.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 00:52

How ignorant Soviet Union was horrendous, but slightly better than the west. How is trying to improve people's lives and persuading them to resist condescending?

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boozemonarchy
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Nov 21 2013 01:05

Anyone else really, really like the thread title?

Anti,

So, this whole, "everyone is brainwashed" shit is just a lame cop-out for frustrated anarchos. People are not brainwashed, you're just too far stuck up your own ass to relate to them. I don't say that in a mean way, it wasn't but that long ago I was saying the same shit.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 01:38

I realise they're helpless as well. If they're not brainwashed, what are they?

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 01:40

Fair enough admin, it is a police state after all.

Fleur
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Nov 21 2013 02:22

Anti... wrote

Quote:
Fair enough admin, it is a police state after all.

Oh ffs, this is not a police state, it is an internet forum, one with posting guidelines which states

Quote:
Please respect people's privacy and refrain from posting up personal details without their permission.

I know you have a weird, obsessive pedantry about "rules" but try reading the guidelines. You never post up someone's personal details on an internet forum - any internet forum -especially one like this which is regularly monitored by the actual police as well as the fash. At the very least it is the height of inconsideration to post up someone's personal details anywhere, without their express permission. You are exposing someone's political activities in a public forum.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 02:24

I meant this country, the state I've read monitors this site

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 02:26

Sorry to [name removed], you and libcom about that, I was pissed off because people were mocking me saying I'm a member of afed.

Admin note: Understandable, but please no real names! :)

cresspot's picture
cresspot
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Nov 21 2013 02:37

Fuck I really wanted to hear about Lincoln's possible fascism that would have been very interesting

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 02:46

If what admin has done is "rules" , no problem!

Juan Conatz's picture
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Nov 21 2013 02:47
cresspot wrote:
Fuck I really wanted to hear about Lincoln's possible fascism that would have been very interesting

Haha, word.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 02:50

Look at the pervious comments for posts about it.

RedEd's picture
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Nov 21 2013 05:04
cresspot wrote:
Fuck I really wanted to hear about Lincoln's possible fascism that would have been very interesting

His separation of the races rhetoric prefigured in interesting ways some of the stuff fascists and other right wingers were up to during the 20th C. I'd be fascinating to know if any fascists or, indeed, anti-semites who supported Zionism referenced his support for dividing the U.S.'s racial groups and preventing 'race-mixing'. Same with the 'resettlement' of blacks from Britain and the US to Sierra Leone and Liberia respectively, which seems to prefigure plans of various Christian European anti-semites to use a veil of Zionism to coerce Jews out of Europe to Uganda, Argentina, Madagascar, or, in a few cases, Palestine.

I suppose the general theory for this sort of historiography was most famously traced out in Dialectic of Enlightenment by Horkheimer and Adorno, though if I remember right they don't touch on these particular points.

Oh, yeah, and libom admins are all fash. Defo.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 05:45

Although I think it's important, it is mindblowingly unimportant compared to endless other issues, sorry I've been driven mad by Facebook, is anyone on Facebook?

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Nov 21 2013 07:26

Anti - You need to simmer down. Seriously, how do you expect to be able to de-brainwash(are you serious?) or even engage in a debate if you keep flying off the handle and swinging wildly from one topic to another? Why would people listen to your point of view if you don't deliver it in a rational way?

Rules - as has already been pointed out we all live by social conventions and accepted standards of behaviour. Like yourself, I find some of these dumb but in general they make sense. If you want to go around walking on your hands pronouncing words backwards then go for it but don't come running(can you run on your hands?!!!) when you become a social outcast.

Brainwashing - Yes, of course we are all conditioned by all sorts of things(you included) and that needs to be tackled but who the fuck are you to decide how people should think and then set about 'de-programming' them? Read Agent's story again - it is a bit mean but it's right on the money.

You really need to relax a bit. You have very little influence over anyone - go about things in the way you have on this thread and you have no influence at all.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 07:54

I hope that people think for themselves and hopefully if they do will see the objective impact capitalism has. I realise I'm still brainwashed. You're against propaganda a la anarchist federation? Are you against sticking sticky notes/stickers/leaflets and graffiti? How can the brainwash problem be tackled?

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 08:05

I'm certainly NOT saying I'm superior, eg I'm against this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hTLoRrNA-sU from 1:08:33-1:09:29

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 21 2013 08:13

Also 1:09:29-1:11:04

Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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Nov 21 2013 08:40

Anti,

I get the feeling your new to this. If I may offer some advice:

1) Don't start antagonistic threads. Dropping the terms 'fascism' and 'seig heil' around in your opening post is not likely to win you many friends.

2) Engage with what people say to you. A half a dozen posts have been directed at your notion of "rules", none of which you've actually engaged with in any real way. I mean, seriously, under anarchism will I be allowed to drive 100 miles an hour the wrong way down a residential street?

3) Do not ever post private and personal information in a public forum. Ever.

4) Try to avoid absurd accusations - "fascism", "brainwashing", all caps - these are not good ways to have an honest debate and don't strengthen your point.

On that point re: Brainwashing. I think most libcom posters would be more likely to understand the class's passivity in terms of "ideological reproduction" - i.e. all of capitalist society (education, media, work) is geared toward reproducing the social relations of capitalism. At low points of class struggle, working class institutions are weak and provide little opportunity to challenge the ruling ideology.

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