Lincoln's possible fascism

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Soapy's picture
Soapy
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Nov 19 2013 04:33
fleurnoire-et-rouge wrote:
by which the site is not responsible for the views expressed in the forums ie if someone says that the Daily Mail is a festering pile of shite then libcom can't have the arse sued off them by the Daily Mail for defamation. Not that is possible, because the Daily Mail is a festering pile of shite.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 19 2013 04:56

This 100% isn't a judgment, why have you repeated that? I don't know how to reply to it. Obviously don't answe if you don't want to. I'll try and figure out.

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Nov 19 2013 08:45

Will there be board games under anarchism? Or does the tyranny of ALL RULES extend to scrabble and chess as well?

Also, while I'm glad you've changed your tune (which could have been accomplished had you, ya know, actually read the posting guidelines), it still takes some nerve to declare that anarcho-communism is an oxymoron and then quote the likes of Bakunin, Malatesta, Kropotkin, and Goldman to back up your argument. All of whom belonged to organisations, by the way, which had rules. Anarchism is far more about how rules are made than their existence or lack thereof.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 19 2013 11:13

Yikes! That was just emotion saying anarcho-communism is an oxymoron, I'm very influenced by Bookchin, I'm a Communalist. How do you know they had rules? I'm still anti-rules, but not anti voluntary co-operation, ethics and resistance, rules are dogmatic, I'm anti-punishment as well, I've had and read about horrendous usage of rules, so I'm wary to say the least when anarchists talk about them.

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Nov 19 2013 12:37

I'm stepping in late here Anti... but I would suggest sticking around and reading the forums for a while before coming to any conclusions about Libcom - when I first found the the site I had a similar idea of anarchism to your own and similar reservations about what these fucking commies were saying but it really just stemmed from assumptions I had made based on my previous experience with certain lefty types in the past. I had to ask myself the question 'why are you looking at this site if you think communism is bullshit?' The answer was that my flimsy, individualist, ego fuelled 'anarchism' had no real substance, gave few solutions and simply left me feeling dissatisfied. The debates on this site are generally interesting, enthusiastic, mutually respectful and often have real practical use in the real world, especially the workplace, which is the arena in which capitalism fucks us in the arse in the most direct way. There is also great humour here although I missed it at first.
Stick around man and get excited about politics. Libcom gives you something real to get your teeth into.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 19 2013 12:44

Thank you, that's made me less anxious.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 19 2013 12:47

Do you reckon it was paranoia? Where do you live? Are you an activist? If not I won't condemn you like bookchin as a "lifestylist".

Fleur
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Nov 19 2013 17:26

I think you may be getting hung up on words. As Chilli said, games have rules, as do a lot of things we take for granted. Like driving on the left side of the road ( or right, depending on where you are.) If the legal framework which enforces that ceases to exist I expect people would carry on doing it because it significantly reduces your chance of being in a car crash. In an anarchist society there would be expectations of behaviour, the difference being that they wouldn't be imposed upon people by an authority, rather agreed upon by a community. Rules exist in all sorts of organizations - if you're in a union a rule would be not to scab. When you live with other people all sorts of conventions exist, which make co-existence easier and better for each other. Whether you want to call them rules or not there are all sorts of things which people would need to agree to, a lot of which are no-brainers - don't murder, rape or maim anyone for example.
There is a difference between dogmatic, oppressive rules imposed upon people against their will, under threat of sanctions, and the kinds of rules of behaviour people need to agree upon, in order for a group or a society to function.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 01:13

Why is libcom so against ethics?

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 02:25

Government is utopian, how can 200 000 people help 60 million people, it's fucking ridiculous what a fantasy! Also 1% of it is what paxman said, its a real strain, but mainly corruption. 62 million people should self-govern 62 million people, the idea it can't work is patenting and ludicrous.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 02:48

My last comment is off-topic, I've posted it as a topic on afeds forum: http://libcom.org/forums/anarchist-federation/utopian-right-wing-left-wi...

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Nov 20 2013 04:54
Antianimalmassholocaustanarchist12 wrote:
Do you reckon it was paranoia? Where do you live? Are you an activist? If not I won't condemn you like bookchin as a "lifestylist".

1. No idea
2. UK
3. Nope

I've been called worse things than a 'life stylist'. I was once a hair stylist though. Well, a barber actually but that wouldn't have made for such good comic effect!

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 05:47

Are you more of a commentator/philosopher? Could we meet sometime? I live in newcastle-under-lyme.

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Nov 20 2013 07:28

In the early 80s, there used to be an anarchist/council communist group in Newcastle under Lyme and the Potteries. They did a publication called Careless Talk.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 07:58

Are you an activist?

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 08:00

http://northernvoicesmag.blogspot.co.uk/p/northern-anarchist-network.htm...

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Nov 20 2013 08:16

Some of those questions are a bit strange, anti. What do you mean by "activist"?

Libcom (the site) basically developed out frustration with the activist wing of the UK anarchist movement. It was created specifically to orienate UK anarchism on an explicitly class-based axis.

So I think there'd be very few people on libcom who'd identified as activists.

Antianimalmassholocaustanarchist12 wrote:
Why is libcom so against ethics?

No, no one is against ethics (although I find your use of the term incredibly vague). But fundamentally, most regular posters are concerned with fighting for, maintaining, and expanding working-class living standards now. Furthermore, doing so in such a way that builds the potential for revolutionary action that leads to a communist society of "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need".

That and making bad puns, of course.

Also, are you in AFed?

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Nov 20 2013 08:50
Quote:
Also, are you in AFed?

Yes, I am beardiest

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 08:55

From each according absolutely! I'm a member of afed. I'm an "activist" whatever that means; I have a positive view of human nature, I think
people are to point of being vegetables brainwashed and there goodness is
smothered like chloroform. My aim is through de-brainwashing so people can
think for themselves, hopefully they'll be anti-capitalism and abolish it,
millions or billions of people non-violently protesting, I've been doing
activism every or most days for over six months and overall for 22 months
(a lot less frequently before roughly the last six months). Chris Hedges
said how all revolutions happen when the slaves (my word) of the state
refuse to crush demos, I'm sure you've heard of that, obviously don't
watch it if you don't want to, but here's the link to the video:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hNm_GAIXOWw

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 08:56

What's your opinion regarding sticking leaflets/stickers in public places and graffiti?

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Nov 20 2013 08:56

Antianimal… # 40
‘Why is libcom so against ethics?’

Well I am not a member of libcom though I’ve a few thoughts on ‘ethics’.

I think I’m ethical in the sense that I’ve a code of conduct that I live by. This is based on my understanding of the world I live in (and the kind of world I’d like to live in) and has been subject to periodic revision. I’m a materialist.

Moralists on the other hand tend to see the world in terms of good, bad, evil, etc. They imagine they are blessed with an insight into the ‘essence of reality’, they know the ‘Truth’ (with a capital T). Their viewpoint is basically religious (fixed).

Unfortunately everyone is prone to stray occasionally into this pompous territory (I know I am).
So try to imagine looking at the world though two types of specs, the moralist and the materialist, and which gives you the best understanding of people and politics?

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 09:01

A band called iskra said morality is the church and ethics is the non-religious version. If by morality you mean dogma, I'm not dogmatic. Tell me more if you want about the materialist approach?

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Nov 21 2013 17:12

I’m no theory buff and I know there are folk on this site who could express a ‘materialistic way of seeing’ better than I can. Well first off, materialism is no panacea to understanding, though it is the best tool for gaining insight.

It looks for clues in an examination of available evidence (all science is based in materialism).

An example:
My dad was for most of his adult life a Stalinist.

The Moralist viewpoint:
Stalinism is very bad therefore he was a bad man (a bit simplistic though near enough).

The Materialist viewpoint:
he was the youngest child in a family of seven and grew up in poverty
his family was very political and the two youngest impressed by Lenin’s ‘modern ideas’ joined the Communist Party
he hated injustice though viewed capitalism as a wild beast which necessitated extreme measures to defeat it
he believed that ‘warts and all’ if the Soviet Union could survive, the coming world revolution would wipe away its crimes
he loved his wife and children

So was he ‘a bad man’ or a product of his time?

I would suggest he was at least in part a moralist, who abdicated his political responsibilities - to reject the corrupting nature of the Party - to that of defending the Communist Party - his church.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 10:33

I tend to steer more to the materialist bit, but the moralist bit is true. Soviet Union was certainly better than western capitalism.

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 10:49

I came up with a theory influenced by Foucault called structural helplessness and it means people are perpetually dazzled by various things therefore infantilised and helpless. An example is bingo advertised on TV so people copy the ways of capitalists, i.e. obsession with money. The system structures itself into what I call invisible totalitarianism, therefore it's their but people can't see it, because it's very subtle. A list of other examples of the way people are helpless: although I'm vegan so I don't really like this reference because of that, yoghurt advertised and a woman's eyes enlarge to give people the illusion that's the epitome of ecstasy new "gadgets" advertised,driving a car, winning a bet which is seen as a major achievement, they're just a few examples. The way to change people I think is counter-brainwash (not to brainwash someone with something different)/propaganda which I'm doing on an almost daily basis. I think the main effects they have on people is people thinking it's "natural", that hierarchy/survival of the fittest is a good thing and thinking capitalism (obviously without realising it's capitalism) is a lovely utopia.

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Nov 20 2013 11:32

Hmmm, a bit esoteric and impractical for my liking.
BTW, I checked out Iskra - are they current? Sounds just like anarcho punkmetalers Antisect from about 30 years ago but with vocals tuned up an octave!

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 11:36

They're still going, they've replied to about half of my emails, there email address iskra@email.com

Antianimalmassh...
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Nov 20 2013 11:37

I'm however open to class struggle as well, I just don't emphasise only workers. It should be everyone of the world unite not just workers.

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Nov 20 2013 13:16
Quote:
I'm however open to class struggle as well, I just don't emphasise only workers. It should be everyone of the world unite not just workers.

And you are a member of the Anarchist Federation?

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Nov 20 2013 13:28

Anti, not to have a go at you - and I realize politics develop over time - but AFed definitely has rules. And, as far as I understand it "Anarcho-Communism or Death" is an unofficial slogan. Even the internal forums are called "ACOD", right? Moreover, their goal is not global unity, but global working class unity. The A&Ps call for "anarcho-communism" in the second sentence and specifically advocate for a materialist analysis of society.

I'm not a member of AF, so perhaps this isn't really for me to say, but given what you've said on this thread, are you sure they're the organisation for you?

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