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"Hands Off the People of Iran"

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MJ
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Mar 1 2007 04:03
"Hands Off the People of Iran"

Sorry, a quick question about this campaign for folks in the UK. Is the "Hands Off the People of Iran" campaign 100% CPGB(PCC)-controlled, or what? They have a decent-sounding position, so I'm wondering how it plays out on the ground.

Actually I guess I would welcome any broader summaries of how that particular party-building group conducts itself, both on international campaigns and with regard to your domestic movements. (And how thick on the ground they really are over there, what style beards they grow, etc.)

Here's the campaign website thus far: http://www.hopoi.org/

(sorry if this is put in the wrong section, feel free to move it, etc.)

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Mar 2 2007 03:33

Ah.

And what are they like?

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MJ
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Oct 18 2007 21:48

So is this still just CPGB, Peter something, and Critique old guy?

Terry
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Oct 18 2007 22:05

CPGB publish the highly entertaining Weekly Worker. Their main purpose in life is attacking the SWP. Seriously. At least that is the impression one gets from their website, they join whatever SWP front is going on, and criticise it.
Their origins are in one of the hardline factions at the time of the disintegration of the the original CPGB, which was, if memory serves me correct, called The Leninist and was anti-eurocommunist, anti-perestroika (which they saw as revisionism - kinda like the post 56 Maoist splits) and pro-republican (very).
I think they had 'fraternal' relations with either the League of Communist Republicans or the IRSP in this country. That is years ago though. They are not as far as I know linked to the Communist Party of Ireland. The CPI judging purely by what they stock in their bookshop seem friendlier with Straight Left, another leftover from the original CPGB.

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JoeMaguire
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Oct 18 2007 23:39

I dont think that CPGB exist to attack others, I think they see themselves as vanguardists - winning positions and arguing for a Leninist vision of tactical unity. This can have all kinds of outcomes to a point where theyre propaganda talks about the left to the left rather than to workers in general. I had experience with them in the Socialist Alliance and they always argued for basically remaking the CPGB but it was done in quite an ultra leftist mentality.

WeTheYouth
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Oct 19 2007 01:43

As a supporter of HOPI, the CPGB did not set it up as a front, it grew out of Iranian socialists in exile have a read of http://www.hopoi.org/iranstatement.html

The CPGB from my understanding were the old 'Leninist' faction of the old CP who produced the communist and now produce the Weekly Worker, the reason why the paper is concerned so much with intra left strife is because they see there role as pushing for a recomposition of communists into a united communist party.

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jef costello
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Oct 19 2007 03:00

WTY you might want to re-read that link of yours.

WeTheYouth
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Oct 19 2007 03:03

eh why?

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Oct 19 2007 07:10
Terry wrote:
Their origins are in one of the hardline factions at the time of the disintegration of the the original CPGB, which was, if memory serves me correct, called The Leninist and was anti-eurocommunist, anti-perestroika (which they saw as revisionism - kinda like the post 56 Maoist splits) and pro-republican (very).

Interestingly, they were the UK section of a Turkish Stalinist party, which makes a change from the general tendency of us to have sections of UK organisations over here.
Devrim

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Oct 19 2007 12:40
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Rather than becoming an 'alternative' to the StWC, HOPI sees its main task as giving give a voice within Coalition to left activists inside Iran, who were deeply hurt and angered by pro Hezbollah slogans raised in last summer's anti-war demonstrations in London and elsewhere.

I can only see that the CPGB is using this as a stick to attack the rest of left...

Jerry Cornelius
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Oct 19 2007 15:23

HOPOI are not a CPGB front. If you look at their list of sponsors that should be obvious. From Chomsky to Pilger to Ken Loach.

I'm based in Dublin and in Ireland HOPI is supported by the Workers Solidarity Movement and the Independent Socialist Network (Luxemburgists).

On Indymedia.ie anyone who makes even the slightest criticism of the Iranian Theocracy is attacked as being a CIA agent.

Even threads supporting Iranian Political Prisoners on Death Row or striking Iranian Workers are trolled. Presumably by the SWP. I cant think of anyone else other than the Iranian Embassy who do this.

Take a look:

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/83719

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/83798

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84720

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84683

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84673

Mike Harman
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Oct 19 2007 15:42
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From Chomsky to Pilger to Ken Loach.

Sorry but those three put their names on all kinds of crap.

lem
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Oct 19 2007 15:43
Jack wrote:
The CPGB can be best summed up by the fact they actually chose to put this on their website.

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/voice/MarkonR4.mp3

that's great!

Jerry Cornelius
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Oct 19 2007 15:58
Quote:
Quote:
From Chomsky to Pilger to Ken Loach.

Sorry but those three put their names on all kinds of crap.

Yeah but there are hundreds of sponsors. I'm not a CPGB supporter and I'm not a Leninist. In Ireland the CPGB certainly dont control HOPI.

THe "Irish Anti War Movement" is an SWP front with a few independent useful fools.

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Oct 19 2007 16:54

i've no idea if HOPI is a CPGB front, but surely the point of a front is to have a broad list of supporters who wouldn't support the string-pulling organisation itself, so listing them doesn't establish anything. and chomsky apparently signed a statement denouncing libcom when one of his mates flounced from a thread here, was very funny.

lem
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Oct 19 2007 17:21

i met one of the hands of people at a solfed meeting. he had a huge bears and looked odd, but then again at the time i looked odder! i was confused about meeting real life communists and tbh was a littl flustered so just agreed with him sad

Mike Harman
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Oct 19 2007 17:30
Joseph K. wrote:
i've no idea if HOPI is a CPGB front, but surely the point of a front is to have a broad list of supporters who wouldn't support the string-pulling organisation itself, so listing them doesn't establish anything. and chomsky apparently signed a statement denouncing libcom when one of his mates flounced from a thread here, was very funny.

That statement in full

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Oct 19 2007 20:35
Joseph K. wrote:
i've no idea if HOPI is a CPGB front, but surely the point of a front is to have a broad list of supporters who wouldn't support the string-pulling organisation itself, so listing them doesn't establish anything.

If She Floats, She's A Witch Award 2007

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Oct 19 2007 20:42

er, how exactly? it's just not a good argument, like me saying 'i have a vehicle with 4 wheels, therefore it's not a car.' it might not be a car, but i don't establish that with that argument.

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Oct 19 2007 21:30

Right, which is why I keep asking people to explain how the CPGB is exerting control over the direction of this campaign. Instead of doing so, those who say it's a front coalition have been pointing out CPGB affiliates on the signatory list. Then others point out non-affiliates. My initial question hasn't been answered.

WeTheYouth
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Oct 20 2007 03:00
MJ wrote:
Right, which is why I keep asking people to explain how the CPGB is exerting control over the direction of this campaign. Instead of doing so, those who say it's a front coalition have been pointing out CPGB affiliates on the signatory list. Then others point out non-affiliates. My initial question hasn't been answered.

The CPGB dont exert control over the direction of the campaign, its simple. But its easier to attack the WSM and others for being inside it, if it fits nicely into there view of HOPI without looking at the campaign properly.

Mike Harman
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Oct 20 2007 08:02
MJ wrote:
Right, which is why I keep asking people to explain how the CPGB is exerting control over the direction of this campaign. Instead of doing so, those who say it's a front coalition have been pointing out CPGB affiliates on the signatory list. Then others point out non-affiliates. My initial question hasn't been answered.

Well you've seen my breakdown. The only non-affiliates mentioned have been individuals (and the prominent ones sign just about anything unless you think John Pilger is working away hard in the HOPI office), most of the affiliates I mentioned are groups.

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Nov 10 2007 20:13
Mike Harman wrote:
Quote:
From Chomsky to Pilger to Ken Loach.

Sorry but those three put their names on all kinds of crap.

...and the last 2 are not even slightly significant for anarchists and libertarians. A journalist and film maker who have been involved in all manner of crap political endeavours (in loach's case a leadership position in RESPECT).

WeTheYouth
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Nov 12 2007 11:32

HOPI is in no way a CPGB front. By saying so you are belittling the work of the Iranian comrades who set up the campaign and run it to this day. The CPGB play a significant role in building the campaign but are by no means using it as a front.

Supporter of HOPI in Manchester have been given free reign to organise the launch meeting as we see best, we have been left to build HOPI in a direction we wanted.

At our launch meeting the speakers are going to be Yassamine Mather who is an exiled Iranian socialist who is a member of one of the founding organisations of HOPI, workers left unity Iran. We also have Dave Vincent from the PCS speaking, along with a speaker from one of the supporting groups the Green Party,

Its easy to copy the SWP's lies about HOPI when your not involved or have any idea of how the campaign works practically. I would suggest you go to launch meetings in your locality and read the website before claiming it is a CPGB front.

Mike Harman
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Nov 12 2007 11:42

WeTheYouth: Are you claiming that "Workers Left Unity Iran" is in no way connected to the CPGB and Critique? Because they're quite honest about it on their respective sites and in various statements as I showed pretty clearly on the other thread.

Also I don't think you understand the difference between "popular front", "united front" or the colloquial use of front as in "Mafia front" and "CIA front" - I'm using it in the sense of "popular front".

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Nov 12 2007 11:49
Quote:
Yassamine Mather

academic, on the editorial board of critique (of whom, hillil ticiticiticiticn appears in the weekly worker pretty much every week) and owns the hoopi website & domain

i'd take the position of hoopi over stwc any day of the week mind, but it grates a bit to see it's supporters stuffed with people mentioned above and academics

gurrier
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Nov 12 2007 15:04
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i'd take the position of hoopi over stwc any day of the week mind, but it grates a bit to see it's supporters stuffed with people mentioned above and academics

Who would you expect to see on it? I mean, exactly which groups that you would hope to see on it are not on it? You may have noticed that the UK is not exactly overflowing with anti-imperialist political groups. The trots are taking a soft pro-regime line. The Labour party is in government and the anarchist groups don't seem to participate in anything that involves non-anarchists. Who else is there?

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Nov 12 2007 15:10

Coming from the other side of the pond, I do know that the 'Hands off the People of Iran' campaign is endorsed by numerous Marxist-Leninist type groups over here. I know Worker's World (Blehhhh....) has endorsed the campaign in their paper.

Mike Harman
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Nov 12 2007 16:33
gurrier wrote:
Who would you expect to see on it? I mean, exactly which groups that you would hope to see on it are not on it? You may have noticed that the UK is not exactly overflowing with anti-imperialist political groups. The trots are taking a soft pro-regime line. The Labour party is in government and the anarchist groups don't seem to participate in anything that involves non-anarchists. Who else is there?

Lesser evil, TINA etc. etc. ad nauseum.

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oisleep
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Nov 12 2007 17:04
gurrier wrote:
Quote:
i'd take the position of hoopi over stwc any day of the week mind, but it grates a bit to see it's supporters stuffed with people mentioned above and academics

Who would you expect to see on it? I mean, exactly which groups that you would hope to see on it are not on it? You may have noticed that the UK is not exactly overflowing with anti-imperialist political groups. The trots are taking a soft pro-regime line. The Labour party is in government and the anarchist groups don't seem to participate in anything that involves non-anarchists. Who else is there?

regardless of who else there is, or isn't - if you see a bunch of smug middle class self serving liberal moral refuge hunters get involved with anything then it grates because of who they are alone, the fact that next to none of them would get involved in anything relating to the indigenous working class of the country they are living in, and their perpetuation of the smug self important self created myth that because they are so clever & knowing then they are the only hope of salvation in relation to distant far away issues in the nasty world they find themself in (a large part of which is of their own making in the first place)

anyway, i don't need to have alternative replacements lined up for something before i can criticse it/them surely? i mean anarchists and lefties spend most of their lifes criticsing every aspect of capitalism but have nowhere like any kind of realistic practical alternative to offer in its place

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Nov 12 2007 18:05
oisleep wrote:
anyway, i don't need to have alternative replacements lined up for something before i can criticse it/them surely? i mean anarchists and lefties spend most of their lifes criticsing every aspect of capitalism but have nowhere like any kind of realistic practical alternative to offer in its place

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