ESF demo...

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Anonymous
Oct 11 2004 15:19
ESF demo...

Anyone up for getting a bloc together? red n black star

f2t
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Oct 11 2004 18:44

For the sunday?

rampart
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Oct 12 2004 03:00

bring a radio

sun, sat, fri, thursday

rebel_JILL
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Oct 12 2004 09:37

Comrades of UK;

saluton from osaka, my comrade from japan would love to join actions in london on 15-17 Oct 2004. if you will be able to contact him, please email me as soon as you can. or please reply on this board. thanx. in solidarity. javascript:emoticon('circle A')

Circled A(rebel_JILL)

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the button
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Oct 12 2004 15:53
Tommy Ascaso wrote:
Anyone up for getting a bloc together? red n black star

Apparently not wink . Seriously, I would turn up, but I'm not going to be a lone anarcho in a sea of Socialist Worker placards.

qwertz
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Oct 12 2004 19:26

I think that many people would be up for it. So many are pissed off with the organisation of the whole officiel event. We just have to advertise the bloc as something like "the horizontals"! circle A

Vaneigemappreci...
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Oct 12 2004 19:42

definately up for it, as long as we can have some kick ass chants!

Anyone gonna get armoured up? padding etc?

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Spartacus
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Oct 12 2004 21:55

why don't you invest in a load of whistle on multicoloured strings, placards and other shit that people are daft enough to buy on demos, flog them to all the idiots and then use the money for something useful (prisoner support, a social centre, the beer fund...)? you'd probably end up with a greater sense of achievement than if you pretend to yourself the march will actually achieve anything other than stave off bankruptcy for the swp for a few more months...

yes
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Oct 13 2004 19:13

Where about the ESF taking place and can you pay on the day? Any info would be great. Cheers grin

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cantdocartwheels
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Oct 13 2004 21:06

Just go to the demo if you want or don't go if you don't want to but don't be too much of a cunt about it. Theres some shitty gig at 5 a few crappy speakers, one or two half decent speakers and a load of reformist banners from the ESF and autonomous social wank, thats life so theres no need to cry about it. Yes its all a bit shit, i think people have worked that out by now.

As for replicating other countries social movements, i'm going to go to every demo dressed like this

Just to prove what a ''ultra-revolutionary'' (read wanker) i am.

john

redyred
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Oct 13 2004 22:52

Jack, surely this is the costume of a true revolutionary:

[img]http://www.easy.com.au/heritage/expo-eisenstein/battleship-potemkin[04].jpg[/img]

Vaneigemappreci...
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Oct 14 2004 21:34

fucking cynics,

say something that isnt a cheap put down, fucking sniper

woofnbark
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Oct 15 2004 16:31

Where is this "demo" starting point and time? confused

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cantdocartwheels
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Oct 15 2004 21:43
woofnbark wrote:
Where is this "demo" starting point and time? confused

Sunday 17th October

Assemble 1pm Russel Square, basic A-B march to Trafalgar Square.

Ends at 5pm although theres some gig (asian dub foundation i think) and some speakers afterwards.

Last big demo of the year i reckon so worth the trip down.

john

yes
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Oct 16 2004 10:23

Oh yeah bring a radio too

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cantdocartwheels
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Oct 18 2004 10:34

Demo went ok, they got 70,000 turn out.

There was some mess when a few people tried to strom the stage, but apparently that was because some people elsewhere had been arrested and there was some sort of communications breakdown or so it says on indymedia, but god knows, i still don't really get what was going on there.

The speakers were mostly shit except for Ross Gentle (the mother of gordon gentle the serviceman who died in iraq recently) and some scottish peace campaigner (no NOT that asshole george galloway) it was some thin small guy who gave a pretty solid lefty speech (does anyone know who he is?). Those two were pretty damn good i thought.

john

Tom A
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Oct 18 2004 13:01

I was there when they tried to storm the stage, and whitnessed at, and a mate of mine who participated in this for a while talked of a STW steward being crushed against a fence and being in obvious pain (out of order in any cirumstances IMO) which caused him to withdraw from the storming.

The finished result was that there was a lot of tension between the group about the rights and wrongs of this (at the time I didn't know about the Italian anarchsists, if I did I would probably have been more sympathtic).

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cantdocartwheels
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Oct 18 2004 13:19
Tom A wrote:
I was there when they tried to storm the stage, and whitnessed at, and a mate of mine who participated in this for a while talked of a STW steward being crushed against a fence and being in obvious pain (out of order in any cirumstances IMO) which caused him to withdraw from the storming.

The finished result was that there was a lot of tension between the group about the rights and wrongs of this (at the time I didn't know about the Italian anarchsists, if I did I would probably have been more sympathtic).

So it actually was an activisty storming, right that was what i first thought when i saw indymedia banners and so on, but i heard otherwise.

If it was a political action to storm the stage then i'm not fucking impressed, yeah the STWC are a bit shit in many respects but you have to engage them politically, getting all wanky and hysterically activisty about it is just absolutely ridiculous.

john

Tom A
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Oct 18 2004 16:16

However from what I have gathered from Indymedia the police were ten times worse than the anarchists when it came to violence (oh golly now there's a surprise!)

Thora
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Oct 18 2004 18:10
cantdocartwheels wrote:
If it was a political action to storm the stage then i'm not fucking impressed, yeah the STWC are a bit shit in many respects but you have to engage them politically, getting all wanky and hysterically activisty about it is just absolutely ridiculous.

About 30-40 people were followed by a FIT team and two van loads of police from the autonomous spaces at middlesex uni on the way to the demo. They tried to prevent us getting on and off the train, and were aggressive and provocative the whole way. When we got to Kings Cross we were penned in and held, filmed and photographed for some time - eventually being told it was a section 60. 7 or 8 people were violently pulled out to be searched and four people were arrested - 1 Greek, 2 Italians and Dutch guy I believe. When we finally got to Trafalgar, still accompanied by FIT and vans, we wanted to make a statement from the stage about our treatment and arrests. We were told we could do so if we went to the side of the stage, but were stopped there by STWC stewards who basically acted as police lines. That's why people were angry. It wasn't about getting "wanky and hysterically activisty" at all.

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Oct 19 2004 00:54
Thora wrote:
cantdocartwheels wrote:
If it was a political action to storm the stage then i'm not fucking impressed, yeah the STWC are a bit shit in many respects but you have to engage them politically, getting all wanky and hysterically activisty about it is just absolutely ridiculous.

About 30-40 people were followed by a FIT team and two van loads of police from the autonomous spaces at middlesex uni on the way to the demo. They tried to prevent us getting on and off the train, and were aggressive and provocative the whole way. When we got to Kings Cross we were penned in and held, filmed and photographed for some time - eventually being told it was a section 60. 7 or 8 people were violently pulled out to be searched and four people were arrested - 1 Greek, 2 Italians and Dutch guy I believe. When we finally got to Trafalgar, still accompanied by FIT and vans, we wanted to make a statement from the stage about our treatment and arrests. We were told we could do so if we went to the side of the stage, but were stopped there by STWC stewards who basically acted as police lines. That's why people were angry. It wasn't about getting "wanky and hysterically activisty" at all.

Yes, but that still doesn't clarify how exactly the STWC stopped a delegate from your group speaking. Afterall the speeches hadn't ended, so how exactly did they completely deny your delegate access permanently.

Ok i apologise and take back my comments as in this context its a lot more understandable, but you still need to be more specific. When were you told that you could make a speech, did you elect a delegate (obviously no names neccesary), when did you try and storm the stage. If your going to accuse the STWC stewards of the crime of actively co-operating with the police in the arrests in order to have you removed, which is effectively what you are doing, as opposed to accusing them of being indirectly involved due to a mix up, then you have to be specific surely.

john

lucy82
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Oct 19 2004 01:45

all weekend the level of police surveillance was getting heavier by the day. when we arrived friday afternoon at middlesex uni, there was one video van and in the site, what we reckoned were plain clothes cops taking pictures. friday night we tried to reclaim some space ourselves. it ended up with us getting chucked out of the station and chased by cops. some people were cordoned off and threatened with arrest. one guy was arrested. i don't know what has happened to him.

by saturday we were hearing from people that venues such as rampart had cops photographing people going in and out. there are detailed reports on indymedia about what happened to people at the tube station also.

my point is that people did get pretty fucked off with the increasingly oppressive tactics of the police. (i saw a cop on the friday night wading in with his baton just itching to hit someone when the police tried to form a line to block the road and heard homophobic comments and stuff about burning protesters from the police when i was stood in front of them on sunday at the demo).

after a weekend of this shit, people who went to trafalger square and wanted to speak about what had been happening should have been allowed to do so. its not wanky or hysterical to try to do so or to rush the stage at the esf to have the voice that anarchists have been constructively and persistently denied throughout the organisational process of the esf. a voice that when it did speak, was welcomed by the majority of the audience at the official esf but not the organisers, unsurprisingly.

i don't know what happened firsthand behind the stage but STWC stewards are well capable of acting like police lines. i've seen it on february 15th STWC demo and it shocked me there. now i expect it tbh. i've seen stewards co-operate with the police when the police are pushing people around and threatening arrest, lining up to hold other people back from any attempt to de-arrest when stuff kicks off. thats not indirect involvement. its complicity and control.

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Jacques Roux
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Oct 19 2004 11:43

So the demo:

Yeah i went with some friends.... the bloc was actually really impressive, better than anything lonodn anarchos have ever managed.

Was called by the North European Anti-cap Network with the aim of being Against Precarity and for Flexibilty (on the subject of jobs - catchy huh?).

Was mainly organised by some german anarchos i think who had some cool banners which they used well, no cops were allowed in side the bloc, it was bordered on all sides by banners and there was a kick ass sound system form brighton being pushed along. The bloc kept its shape the whole way and people didnt dilly-dally off.

Was very impressive.

The sound system read out legal advice for the europeans there at the start and gave a quick summary of why we were there.

Obviously the demo was as boring as fuck, but was really empowering to know that outside of britain people can organise stuff like this and keep it togther!

Only pic i could find!

woofnbark
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Oct 19 2004 17:44

I think it's worth your while to write up your side of story and get it posted on Indymedia, Schnew, etc, I know Schnew will want to hear about your experinces.

It's sick that the police saying stuff about burning protesters.

Caiman del Barrio
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Oct 19 2004 19:18
Thora wrote:
About 30-40 people were followed by a FIT team and two van loads of police from the autonomous spaces at middlesex uni on the way to the demo. They tried to prevent us getting on and off the train, and were aggressive and provocative the whole way. When we got to Kings Cross we were penned in and held, filmed and photographed for some time - eventually being told it was a section 60. 7 or 8 people were violently pulled out to be searched and four people were arrested - 1 Greek, 2 Italians and Dutch guy I believe.

This was actually announced to the anti-capitalist bloc at the demo and a group of us left it to make our way to Kings Cross to see what was up but we got a phone call (hahaha, Straight Edge??) halfway there to say everyone had been released bar 4.

I missed the whole storming thing. I caught the tailend of 7 cops beating one guy in Trafalgar Square though.

lucy82
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Oct 19 2004 23:13

also the swp wanted to call the police when the stage was stormed but were told, in no uncertain terms by europeon groups there that if they did that, groups who were major players would walk out and there would be no esf.

Quote:
the STWC are a bit shit in many respects

sorry but this is more than a bit shit

for me, what i've seen and what i've heard of the events, actions and reactions has been positive in that clearly the esf that was produced was not the esf that many people from across europe (including the uk) wanted to see and european organisations were prepared to protect the anarchists who stormed the stage from the police by threatening the organisers of the esf with a walkout.

in the spirit of what the esf should be not what it has become.

spike
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Oct 19 2004 23:19

the fact that the ESf was sponsored by the Gaurdian and that they were initiially refusing to give press accreditation to indymedia / community media people says alot really. sad

and the SWP have shown their true colours in that statement put out by Callinicos (if it is for real, which I'm assuming it is)

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Oct 20 2004 16:35

Criticising the stormers is a fair position to take, personally i'm not that impressed by it all, there was no real documented attempt to suggest delegates for speaking when you stormed the demo as far as i can tell, and it was all overly activisty in both cases.And no i don't like the wombles.

I'm sorry but yet again you need to back up your claims about the SWP with evidence, and say which members you're refering to and so on.

And just because they're shit does not justify your tactics. The SWP are a left wing party that should be engaged with, you don't NO PLATORM them for crying out loud, thats just absolutely ridiculous and achieves little.

Well whatever, i don't care enough, the end.

lucy82
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Oct 20 2004 17:12

but its ok for them to call the police on other people is it???

engage with that?????????

read the COBAS statement. theres a letter of support also going to the guardian which has signaturies from across europe. (guardian being official sponsers of the esf).

the swp have come out of this covered in shit in the eyes of many people from europe and they deserve it.

Yrwenot3?
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Oct 20 2004 18:02
cantdocartwheels wrote:
The SWP are a left wing party that should be engaged with, you don't NO PLATORM them for crying out loud, thats just absolutely ridiculous and achieves little.

Well whatever, i don't care enough, the end.

You got any experience of engaging with them as a 'left wing party'?

This better be enlightening for us cantdocartwheels roll eyes

redyred
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Oct 20 2004 19:55
lucy82 wrote:

read the COBAS statement. theres a letter of support also going to the guardian which has signaturies from across europe. (guardian being official sponsers of the esf)

So it's bollocks to the SWP but the fucking corporate liberal press is fine? As shit as they are, trots do have slightly better politics than the guardian.

Yrewenot3? wrote:
You got any experience of engaging with them as a 'left wing party'?

All joking apart, the SWP have got a lot worse in the last 2 or 3 years. They've never been flawless but funnily enough yes they do have a history of supporting class struggle actions, anti-nazi actions and so on. Dismissing them entirely is ultra leftist wank. The majority of the membership are, for want of a better phrase "on our side". Given that they are such a dominating presence in activist circles they end up being the first group a lot of left-wing minded young people come into contact with (they were for me at least). Yes, they have some very shit elements to their politics, and their central comittee are some of the biggest fucking shitholes around in activist circles, but by cutting them off or condemning them completely you're blocking out a lot of decent dedicated left-wing people. Engage with them, you could help turn those decent left-wing people into better activists. (Although if they run into you Yrwenot3 they're probably better off where they are).