Community Action Gathering - Discussion and Details

Frankly, if only three people were involved in the above mentioned, and their analysis is agenda-led, as it inevitably will be in you case as the analysis must be made to fit the conclusion, forgive me for not trusting single perspectives.

But the whole concept of 'they will come when they see we were right' is bollocks, to be frank. Because no matter how right you are, if you've sat around on your high horse for however many decades, you're going to be regarded as the irritating little shit sitting on the fence saying 'I told you so'.

No-one follows that person, because they're so fundamentally unlikable and not only that, haven't got an of the practical experiences and examples of putting their own neck on the line for their comrades, regardless of 'political purity', which might give them the moral authority to lead.

That's why I say you're in bizzaro-world, and why I'm saying you aren't thinking like normal human beings, because you seem to have no clue what constitutes an organisation capable of getting peoples' loyalty.

Im not so sure how fair it is to dub the ICC as "loons" and "tossers" since it simple seems like people are trying to end all debate by doing so. However I would be very interested to see what the ICC does within the class struggle, such as immediate struggles for pay, healthcare etc. While its completly valid for theory to play an important role, there is a danger of "intellectuals" swarming through an organisation and rendereding it little more than a historical debating society. I should know all about that, I used to be in the Socialist Party of Great Britain. Anyone ever encountered them? They DO in fact condem all struggles, and, belive it or not, say that "socialism" can be attained simply by "understanding it and wanting it" and voting SPGBers into parliment. Understandably, after over 100 years of political waffle, they have got nowhere.

But...I dont think this can be compared to the ICC which does make a decent effort to come up with concrete theory that will ultimatly prove practical. Its the current struggles that the ICC is involved in that I would like to know more about, such struggles are invaluable to the development of a clear perspective.

Sorry that post was really badly written, Im new to this forum and Im really knackered so you will have to forgive me at the mo for bad spelling/grammer etc.

Why the hell does it says its grim up north london under my name? Im not even from north london.

Magoo,

For some reason we decided that posters should have smilies with progressively longer beards the more posts they've got. I made the three smilies we have now quite quickly, with the intention of doing more/better ones. Because that one reminded me of the Private Eye strip of the same name, we matched the taglines to the beards. Do some more posts and you'll eventually get Captain Haddock then Piotr Kropotkin.

Welcome to the boards by the way! You're not the ex-SPGB member who currently resides at the end of the Victoria line by any chance are you? (although that is North-East London so maybe not)

Thanks for the reception. Nope I live in Portsmouth, was going to try and set up an SPGB branch down here cept the only other SPGBer seemed to want to substitute him talking at me about his dog and how old he is for real activity.

Its a long and sad story but oddly enough what actualy caused me to move away from the SPGB posistion was....Marxism! When I was most loyal to the organisation it was at the start when my knowledge was still pretty small (though some might say it still is!) but after a while it started to sink in that branding everything as reformism and having your sole activity being a debate to prove how correct you are is not revolutionary activity, nor marxism.

I am interested in the ICC though and the Communist left in general.

AAAAAHH, you must be purged!!!!11 Our great holy Mother Anarchos does look down with wrath upon ye, her wayward SP/ICC silly muppets that need to develop their politics. Change thy ways or be smoten like something that is oh so easily smited. But aye, welcome.

Thanks..I guess.

yer welcome.

[When I first encountered the ICC I was actually pretty intrigued too, left communism sounds pretty neat -well better than the common or garden commie lot. But a brief look into their positions or just chatting to one of them was enough to completely well, sicken me. They spout the exact same vanguardist tosh, they reject all movement for short-term reforms, are utterly isolated from any genuine worker-based support and are, frankly, off their bloody proletarian heads. But you might say differently.]

I woudnt mind meeting some face to face, I rather like their theory but Im still not so sure why they belive unions MUST become intergrated into the state in the period of decadence, I think Im going to have to re-read their pamphlet on the Unions.

Its a shame they have no real base within the working class, one reason I can think of is that it seems thier press is aimed at those who are already marxists. I was reading a bit last night and I made myself think back several years to the point where I had never encountered any marxist literature, and asked myself "Would I understand even slightly what Im reading now?" The answer is of course, no. I would not have a clue what they were talking about, even though I would of course still be a part of the working class and therefore it would be relevant to me.

The problem with aiming your press at other marxists is that you tend to just target members of other groups, who will no doubt bring forth thier own party line, and then you tend to just get dug into all sorts of unproductive arguments, but then again debate with other organisations is certainly somthing to be sought after.

There is another organisation, the PLP, that theory aside (they are stalinists and seem to think that the party will control everything in communism and continue to exist from then on) thier press is very effective for the simple reason that they have a newspaper that reports on party activity and workers struggles in simple, everyday terms, and actualy have a seperate magazine for dealing with things in more depth. I imagine they certainly get far more feedback from people by doing this instead of simply basing thier entire press on essays to people who are already Marxists.

The ICC are a lot more out of touch than you think. 'World Revolution' is their agitational paper, aimed at winning proletarians over to (their own brand of) left communism and they make a point of doing street sales.

The ICC has many publications, World Revolution being the paper of its section in Britain of the same name. I can’t speak for the other papers since I don’t read the corresponding language, but while World Revolution is very informative and well written, it seems to be aimed exclusively at those already have a fair grasp of socialist politics and economics. If I were to point out a weakness in the ICC it would certainly be that their press will unfortunately befuddle the average man on the street. That’s not saying people are thick and Im great, its just a fact that words and phrases like “proletarian” and “capitalism in its period of decadence” mean absolutely nothing to the great bulk of the working population. Nobody is going to get anywhere if nobody understands what they are saying.

So back to the Community Action Gathering - did anything ever come out of this? Even the elist? Or the minutes?

Just curious as im doing some work on our community organising section

http://libcom.org/organise/community

"Its the current struggles that the ICC is involved in that I would like to know more about, such struggles are invaluable to the development of a clear perspective."

By thier continued silence I assume they mean "we are not involved in any current struggles" but simply dont want to admit it! They recently went totaly beserk over a comment a mate of mine made over a myspace blog I do, and now dont speak to either of us, and have stopped calling me "comrade" too! What a shame!

Totaly barking and irrational, but Im sure they will come up with some overly complext theorticcal justification for it to make it sound like they actualy have a reason for throwing what can only be described as a tantrum.

I understand the e-list should be done 'soon'. And requests for all the minutes from each meeting will be going out over the e-list when it's done so they can be compiled

No offence to those involved in organising - but 2 months to setup an elist is pretty lame. Unless of course the gap is left on purpose for us to reflect etc.

I know, I'll try to find out what's holding it up.

Yeah an email came through on the list yesterday so its up and working. But the email said it wasnt working... so I guess its nearly done

Cheers guys!

Catch gets things done- let it be known

kalabine: he gets things done

Sorry!

It's a bad idea for stupendously busy people to take on the main tasks all the time. For one thing, it's undemocratic. Who's the elist moderator?

So you should be!

This sounds like a really good meeting. Are there any plans to have one for those of us up north who can't be arsed going anywhere south of Crewe? There's some excellent venues in Liverpool, notably the Casa bar on Hope St which was set up by some of the sacked dockers and helps to set up community campaigns.

Where libcom leads, the TUC is sure to follow......