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20th Dec Callout - Dodgy as hell...

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Dec 15 2010 19:53
20th Dec Callout - Dodgy as hell...

(Posted something like this on the end of a news article, but thought it deserved it's own topic)

Earlier, a post appeared on Indymedia claiming to be from a French student showing solidarity to the British - It wished students luck on their next event, proceeding to list the date and location of the 20th callout. Remarkably specific for a solidarity statement, don't you think?

It was clearly an attempt at 'pushing' the date, but an incredibly bad one. The article was tiny, there was no link to any actual statement from French students and a link at the bottom claiming to be a French 'song of resistance' actually went to the facebook event page.

Not long after a few posts called it out (including some predictable posts trying to defend it from the 'self-proclaimed student 'leadership'') it was deleted. Possibly by an editor, but more likely by the poster when they realised they'd been rumbled.

Something very fucking shifty is going on. I'm no huge fan of the NCAFC (who can be proprietorial with regards to dates on occasion) but I think they've made the right call in warning people to stay away from this one - not because it's 'unofficial' but because the behaviour of whoever's involved (Hardselling the event near-constantly including fake posts on Indymedia, trying to couch it in the language of Libertarianism, refusing to answer even the most basic questions on who their group is, falsely claiming support from unions) makes it seem like something people should be very wary about getting involved in. It could also be very damaging to any Libertarian aspect to the student movement if anything bad does go down - some could argue for greater 'control' over the student movement to avoid the 'problem' of rogue events.

I've no idea what's going on - but I think it's something Libertarian groups should be aware of. And perhaps word should go out to avoid Piccadilly on the 20th.

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Dec 15 2010 21:34

@Auto-

Thank fuck someone else has picked up on this- I posted stuff on the '9 December' thread, but was met with scepticism. I am absolutely certain this is a honey-trap, set up by the security services, why? Because this was in the news today-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/student-protests-may-be-banned-altogether-if-violence-continues-2160620.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8201906/Police-may-ban-future-marches-to-prevent-disorder.html

The state wants another 'out-of-control' looking situation, and who better to provide it than their poodles, the EDL?

It is a perverse logic, I know, and don't get me wrong- I love a bit of autonomous proletarian streetsports, but this is totally different and markedly fucked-up. And yes, they have been trying to legitimise themselves with that lousy 'Zarathustra' posting on Indymedia...

The state has also reached something of an impasse with the student movement- as it is, there are now legal moves (by a group of liberal lawyers, whose own kids got kettled) against the use of the kettle...The watercannon is redundant-baton rounds a step too far, so what can they do? Carry on ketting and headsplitting? They need to do something pretty fast, cos next year workers will wake up to the fact that they have been royally screwed, and they in no way want the students to join a possibly mutinous/wild workforce...On y Va!

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Dec 15 2010 21:47

It's also worth noting that the organisers can only be contacted by email-it's only recently that they have been 'replying' (if you can call it that) on the FB page, but only under the name 'UK peoples initiative'.

And...they have removed the graphic that displays people who are Not Attending- thereby giving a false picture of their popularity...Thought peeps ought to know!

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Dec 15 2010 21:50

I don't know what it is. I'm not sure it's the security services - I'd like to think think they'd run a slightly tighter ship than this lot, but that's besides the point. Whoever it is, it seems like something that needs an eye kept on it. Especially as they are trying to use the cloak of Libertarianism...

EDIT: Yes, they are pushing the event very, very hard. They really want people to think it's a large, grassroots, autonomous action.

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Dec 15 2010 22:18

Fair do's, but I recognise the fact that the security services in the UK have always had links with fascist groups-

Related thread on Urban75-
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/339672-march-of-resistance-to-public-sector-cuts-20th-december

and of very great interest-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eivbQ-fIrts

and I actually saw some of this, broadcast live on the day (I had bad flu on the day, and watched the "televised revolution"...)

Who else, and why would the oafish EDL even bother, under their own initiative? It's not ther natural constituancy, so to speak, is it?

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Dec 15 2010 22:26

And someone in the EDL is pushing the idea-

http://s1.zeta boards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3988241/1/

EDIT to add:-

http://s1.zeta boards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3990036/1/

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Dec 15 2010 23:11

you should brake links to the edl

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Dec 15 2010 23:44
Quote:
you should brake links to the edl

Apologies for any breach of etiquette/security. I'm more at home with a quill and a pot of ink!

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Dec 15 2010 23:50
Incubus wrote:
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you should brake links to the edl

Apologies for any breach of etiquette/security. I'm more at home with a quill and a pot of ink!

the people who run a website can see where visitors come from if they follow a link.

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Dec 16 2010 00:09

a load of them on there sign their posts NS which is national socialist, right?

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Dec 16 2010 14:00

Yes, as used by the nazis themselves, and latterly by historians. Neo-nazis also use the alphabetical numerics of 18 for Adolf Hitler and 88 for Heil Hitler, but you probably knew that...
It's worth remembering in regard to the EDL and student protests, that in France ' 68 fascists were used for interventions and provocations against the student movement. Looks as though the "UK peoples initiative" have changed their mode of operating on their FB page-but only after deleting a large amount of comments that question them, denounce them or have any criticism of them. Watch that space...

gypsy
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Dec 16 2010 18:49

I thought NS meant 'nuff said'.

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Dec 16 2010 18:51

This was a link on a post to Indymedia this evening - note the plugging of the 'UK People's Initiative' thing:

http://actforfreedomnow.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-riotous-assemblies-not-reasonable.html

I haven't read it yet, but it looks way, way over-the-top...

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Dec 16 2010 18:54
Wellclose Square wrote:
This was a link on a post to Indymedia this evening - note the plugging of the 'UK People's Initiative' thing:

http://actforfreedomnow.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-riotous-assemblies-not-reasonable.html

I haven't read it yet, but it looks way, way over-the-top...

the site is pretty pro greek anarchist. Would be surprised if its EDL.

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Dec 16 2010 18:56
gypsytimetraveller wrote:
I thought NS meant 'nuff said'.

Nonce sense.

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Dec 16 2010 18:57
gypsytimetraveller wrote:
Wellclose Square wrote:
This was a link on a post to Indymedia this evening - note the plugging of the 'UK People's Initiative' thing:

http://actforfreedomnow.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-riotous-assemblies-not-reasonable.html

I haven't read it yet, but it looks way, way over-the-top...

the site is pretty pro greek anarchist. Would be surprised if its EDL.

Yes, it looks like a bona fide insurrectionist site...

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Dec 16 2010 18:59
Wellclose Square wrote:
gypsytimetraveller wrote:
Wellclose Square wrote:
This was a link on a post to Indymedia this evening - note the plugging of the 'UK People's Initiative' thing:

http://actforfreedomnow.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-riotous-assemblies-not-reasonable.html

I haven't read it yet, but it looks way, way over-the-top...

the site is pretty pro greek anarchist. Would be surprised if its EDL.

Yes, it looks like a bona fide insurrectionist site...

didnt say it was, just doesnt look like their MO.

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Dec 16 2010 19:21
Quote:
This was a link on a post to Indymedia this evening - note the plugging of the 'UK People's Initiative' thing:

http://actforfreedomnow.blogspot.com/2010/12/for-riotous-assemblies-not-reasonable.html

I haven't read it yet, but it looks way, way over-the-top...

Where? I can't see any plug-I searched it, and nada.

The event 'organisers' are now claiming they have 'informed the police' of the event-Talk about a U-turn!

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Dec 16 2010 19:26

Ah, yeah, just seen it -well, anyone know if actforfreedomnow vets submitted links? Besides, if this event was set up by anyone of a libertarian stripe, I'm sure they would have something of a critique, even if it was a crude one, and they would answer valid questions, no?

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Dec 16 2010 21:51
Incubus wrote:
Ah, yeah, just seen it -well, anyone know if actforfreedomnow vets submitted links? Besides, if this event was set up by anyone of a libertarian stripe, I'm sure they would have something of a critique, even if it was a crude one, and they would answer valid questions, no?

Yeah, what struck me was the typeface or font - the general style and layout of the page - which looked identical to the obviously bogus one linked to by the character called Zarathustra on his Dec 20th promotional message on Indymedia. Some sort of cut-and-paste job? To what end?

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Dec 17 2010 13:42
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a load of them on there sign their posts NS which is national socialist, right?

They say its means No Surrender. Wouldn't put it past them though.

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Dec 17 2010 21:08

OK, since nobody is particularly interested in this thread, I want to say what I think will happen on Monday-call it speculation, conspiracy theory or whatever, but there is something exceptionally wrong with this demo, the way it has been organised, its location and 'legitimacy'. I think it may be the first time an event organised via social media will be manipulated to state ends-thus discrediting it as a trusted medium for networking and facilitating demos-

A couple of thousand (naive) people will show up at Piccadilly Circus, EDL affiliates/members/provocateurs will be embedded amongst genuine students- they will either attack the students and passers-by in a random and vicious fashion, or they will launch attacks on the Police and shopping area-particularly Regents Street (which will re-kindle the Charles and Camilla 'outrage'). The cops will either respond with alacrity as Nationalists attack students, and then steam into an 'unauthorised' demo, and then 'righteously' kettle them, or they will hammer all and any demonstrators, and justify their brutality by the violence that has already broken out...The ensuing press coverage will strengthen calls for all large student protests in cities to be banned under the Public Order Act. The NCAFC will try to distance themselves from the event, but will be tarred with the same brush due to their support of community self-defence, and their refusal to condemn the Charlie 'carwash' incident..(despite the fact that they have already distanced themselves-
http://anticuts.com/2010/12/15/ncafc-warns-supporters-not-to-attend-2012-march-of-resistance/
-The shadowy 'UK Peoples Initiative'-will say (if anything) that they never expected or encouraged violence-particularly because the most constant posting on their FB page has been "'If you recognise any of these scum, please contact the authorities, thanks'.Tuition fees protest: Police issue 'rogues' gallery to find Camilla's attacker->Daily Mail link< .Critical / angry comments about 'UK Peoples Initiative' description of fellow protesters beneath it, have been scrupulously removed....

That's presupposing that they don't just vanish on the day-since they have asked people to check FB via their mobiles during the demo(-but then what directions are they supposed to be giving out?)

Result-Police actions vindicated, protests banned, FB as a medium of organisation discredited, (or possibly banned in-a-Wikileaks stylee...), student movement crippled before it can make any progress in uniting with proletarians outside the University factory system

Or I could be utterly wrong, with a paranoid and colourful imagination-but hey,forgive me, I grew up in the Twentieth Century....so throw me a frickin' bone!

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Dec 17 2010 21:19

Oh, yeah, forgot about this-

http://www.grimeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77029

and also the thread here-

EDL crash anarchist meeting

Denmark,state, something rotten.

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Dec 18 2010 15:47
Quote:
Quote:
a load of them on there sign their posts NS which is national socialist, right?

They say its means No Surrender. Wouldn't put it past them though.

'No surrender' is synonymous with Glasgow Rangers FC and Loyalists in Northern Ireland. English racist/far-right fans sing No Surrender to the IRA etc. So 'No Surrender' would figure.

gypsy
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Dec 18 2010 16:04
playinghob wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
a load of them on there sign their posts NS which is national socialist, right?

They say its means No Surrender. Wouldn't put it past them though.

'No surrender' is synonymous with Glasgow Rangers FC and Loyalists in Northern Ireland. English racist/far-right fans sing No Surrender to the IRA etc. So 'No Surrender' would figure.

Yep.

gypsy
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Dec 18 2010 17:00

one of the edl's favourite songs is the smash hit 'no surrender to the taliban'.

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Dec 18 2010 17:52
Quote:
Jim Clark Wrote:
Loads of England fans used to sing it back when people thought the IRA would bomb football matches, I think I heard it at every game I went to before the ceasefire.

"Keep St George in my heart, keep me English Keep St George in my heart, I pray Keep St George in my heart, keep me English. No surrender to the I.R.A. No surrender! No surrender! No surrender to the I.R.A. No surrender! No surrender! No surrender to the I.R.A."

Point taken Jim but I think the sentiment and political overtones imply slightly more than fans response to to perceived threat of republican bombings at footie matches. Think it was introduced directly by the BNP and their supporters.

And re Gipsy's point on the EDL's smash hit - at the recent Chelsea Sunderland match, a small group of well-known Sunderland fascists had a rousing chorus of the said song along with some Chelsea fans in a pub near Stamford Bridge.