Oceania forum: Welcome, say hi!

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ites's picture
ites
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Dec 13 2012 09:24
Lugius wrote:
Can I ask why you were expelled from the Melbourne IWW?

I've been wondering the same question, especially since no reasoning or evidence was provided to justify the decision, which for the record was made by 6 members out of a 30+ member branch, the majority of whom I was personally responsible for signing up.

Can't help but notice thought that as heinous and as evil I'm made out to be, those remaining in the branch are happy to have the members I signed up remain and continue to enjoy the use of all the graphics I designed, printed material I created, Facebook profiles and groups I created and built up, etc.

The IWW would appear to be similar to the ASF in that respect, which I noted from the bookfair is still making use of the Rudolf Rocker booklets amongst other things I put together the best part of a decade ago. For such a persona non grata I sure seem to make useful educational materials and do a good job of getting people involved.

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Lugius
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Dec 13 2012 09:08

What? You are suggesting that the Melbourne IWW expelled you for no reason at all. As a great critic of the IWW in general and of certain branches in particular, I'd like to believe this is true from a purely sectarian point of view. If it is true, it would be grounds for appeal as the process you describe denies you natural justice. I presume you're suggesting that you were simply informed of your expulsion with no right of appeal. Is that right?

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happychaos
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Dec 13 2012 10:27

From this post I see it is probably unlikely that the IWW and ASF will ever merge. :-/

Is it such a good idea to be discussion expulsion on a public forum?

HC

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Dec 13 2012 10:48

I'm not in the IWW or anything so I couldn't say with any authority, but sometimes the mail is collected by one person and responded to by another, and this happens through a meeting, which are held infrequently.

I can say MAC tries to be diligent in giving a quick response these days, after some complaints about the same thing!

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Dec 14 2012 01:28

I note that the IWW constitution covers comprehensively complaints by members against other members, procedures for conflict resolution which would include a complaints committee and an appeal procedure.

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Dec 15 2012 00:47

That's it you lot, i'm stopping the car.

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happychaos
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Dec 15 2012 20:51

I think it would be a good idea to split this discussion off, this is after all a welcome thread. smile

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ites
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Dec 16 2012 14:47
happychaos wrote:
I think it would be a good idea to split this discussion off, this is after all a welcome thread. :-)

Agree. The way the anarchist ghetto operates in this country (or maybe more accurately mismanages its characteristic dysfunctionality) definitely leaves no shortage of things to be desired. Personally it seems to me to have a lot to do with people defining themselves on the basis of what they do rather than what they say such that they're motivated to focus on what separates them from others in the name of defending ideological purity rather than focusing on commonalities with a view to building solidarity. Anarchist is a verb as much as a noun, if not infinitely more so.

Lugius wrote:
What? You are suggesting that the Melbourne IWW expelled you for no reason at all. As a great critic of the IWW in general and of certain branches in particular, I'd like to believe this is true from a purely sectarian point of view. If it is true, it would be grounds for appeal as the process you describe denies you natural justice. I presume you're suggesting that you were simply informed of your expulsion with no right of appeal. Is that right?

It sure does, which is why I'm appealing. What I'm suggesting is that I was informed of my expulsion without any effort to explain why, to explain the reasoning that lead to that decision, to provide the kind of evidence to support such a move that a reasonable person would consider convincing including that which I provided in my own defence (which for the record ran to almost 10,000 words, which some in the Melbourne IWW have treated as evidence of my obsessiveness though much of that consists of their own shit-talking), or to protect the principle of justice through fair and impartial process.

Lugius wrote:
I note that the IWW constitution covers comprehensively complaints by members against other members, procedures for conflict resolution which would include a complaints committee and an appeal procedure.

Which all depend on the procedures being honestly and dilligently followed, which happened at no stage of the process. What happened was a kangaroo court fuelled by subjective prejudice and an outcome designed to appease dominating personalities, which was oddly reminiscent of how the anarchist ghetto appears to operate in Melbourne more broadly.

So again it's not much surprise to me for one that an idea with such great appeal finds itself marginalised due to the great skill of the milieu in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

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Dec 21 2012 05:33

Ben, I understand you're pissed because you got kicked out of the IWW. But seriously, it's been months, when is the posting like this going to stop?

Your ejection from the union is not a permanent thing, you would be welcomed back at some point if you gave it some time for the dust to settle, and stopped accusing everyone of being in conspiracy against you.

I'm too far removed from the situation to judge, and i'm not defending the decision of the Melbourne branch, but a decision was made for you to leave the union, and you need to respect that decision, for now. I don't mean, don't disagree or don't critique it, you're free to, but be respectful about it, because it's not helping your cause at all to carry on like this.

Your chief complainant has resigned from the union, adding decent weight to your side of the story that they were just out to hurt you. Your other chief complainant lives in a different state to you, and another is not a member anyway. Give it time, let it cool, and you're not going to have to deal with these people, outside of a professional(for lack of a better word) capacity, in future. It's not worth continually stressing yourself out over it, it will go faster if you just leave it, dedicate yourself to some personal projects or something for a while.

Shit in Australia is going to get steadily worse, and we need all our militants on board and ready to go, and able to work in unity, not exacerbating past grievances and holding grudges/making them worse. You're a good organiser, but you need to let this issue go for now.

The major players on the Trot left, who typically out-do us in their vile sectarianism, are putting aside their personal disagreements of decades past to unite and work together. They're making in-roads in union elections, council elections, student elections, the SAlt faction in the NUS is one of the largest, the Marxism conference in easter is set to be the biggest yet..

And i'll be damned if the Revolutionary Socialist Alternative Party Alliance shows us up at being able to work together and win the respect and trust of the community.

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Dec 21 2012 05:49

Also, please don't reply to this, one because this sticky thread is meant to be the intro page where people can come say hi - not where they gain their education about anarchist sectarianism from 1990-2012, and two because I don't want to argue, i'm just putting my idea out there, and whether you agree/take it in or not is really up to you.

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Dec 22 2012 13:04
Rats wrote:
Ben, I understand you're pissed because you got kicked out of the IWW. But seriously, it's been months, when is the posting like this going to stop?

Your ejection from the union is not a permanent thing, you would be welcomed back at some point if you gave it some time for the dust to settle, and stopped accusing everyone of being in conspiracy against you.

I appreciate you saying that Rats but I'm not really sure you do understand. I've put a tonne of my own time and energy into organising at the expense of many other parts of my life only to see it undone because people like to play personality politics and wouldn't know a fair process if it booted them in the arse. It could very well be a permanent thing and in addition to being summarily ejected from an organisation I worked very hard to build for reasons that have yet to supported with evidence I also continue to be demonised, vilified and stigmatised.

I'm generally rropable about that, and I'm not sure why I should stay silent about it either when it also means that people who are becoming interested in anarchist ideas and in getting involved in movements for workplace and social justice are entering a dysfunctional milieu that may well turn them into a target for daring to contradict the wrong people.

radicalgraffiti
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Dec 22 2012 14:22

whether you should be quite about it or not, this is the wrong thread for it.

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Dec 23 2012 00:33

This is a welcome thread, a lot of this stuff is off topic. I am going to lock it for the time being

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