Manchester Electricians & the NORTH WEST COWBOY

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bryan bamford nv
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May 21 2005 08:24
Manchester Electricians & the NORTH WEST COWBOY

THE FOLLOWING REPORT IS TAKEN FROM THE Winter 2004/5 issue of 'North West Cowboy' ~ the North West Building Site Bulletin for Rank & File trade unionists; it also appeared on the Burnley site.

BEATING THE BLACKLIST:

Winning with the Manchester Electricians

LAST JULY, a handful of Manchester electricians bashed the black-list in the Manchester building trade and scored another blow against sweetheart deals on local sites.

This is our interpretation of the decision of the Manchester Employment Tribunal in the case of the Locked-out Manchester electricians: Mr S. Acheson & others v DAF Electrical Contractors Ltd.

The outcome of the 12 month bitter dispute; was that the Industrial Tribunal found that four of the electricians had been falsely made

redundant and that Steve Acheson, Tony Jones, Sean Keaveney and Graham Bowker, had been ‘unfairly dismissed’ by DAF ‘on grounds

related to their union membership’.

The finger of justice now points not only at the guilty subcontractor DAF in the Dock; but also at the main company Carillion—which took on the original contract from Manchester City Council before subcontracting it to DAF, and at Richard Leese, Labour leader of Manchester City Council, who throughout the dispute refused to intervene. Yet above all the trade union Amicus turned out to be a shabby little shocker, when one of its officers tried to enforce the blacklisting of T&G shop steward Steve Acheson.

Bosses ‘concocted their evidence’

This was a case where the Tribunal banged the boss’s heads. The Tribunal considered that the employer’s ‘evidence was unreliable in respect of’ each of their claims:

‘that there was a redundancy situation in early May (2003)’; that they ‘did not know that the four (to be made redundant) were Transport & General Workers Union members and (that their) work was unsatisfactory.’

The Tribunal ‘decided that the (company) witnesses had attempted to conceal their knowledge of (their worker’s) Transport & General Workers Union membership.’ The Tribunal found ‘that attempt was wholly unconvincing and frankly incredible.’ It led the Tribunal ‘to conclude that it was designed to disguise the true picture.’

Of Mr David Fahey, the boss of DAF Electrical Ltd, the Tribunal said: His ‘evidence was unreliable because he sought to postdate the time he became aware of the (men’s) Transport & General Workers’ Union membership.’

Sue Machin's Sexy Cross-examination!*

Seldom have I seen such a sexy crossexamination of witnesses as that of Ms Sue Machins’ for the locked-out Manchester electricians. She was like Charles Dickens’ Madam Defage knitting while the guillotine fell on the Fahey clan of sub-contracting bosses.

The Fahey family from Cheltenham, which runs DAF Electrical contractors, were left gasping in the witness box. The plumy voice of the boisterous blond Madam Machin was a joy to listen to on a June afternoon in the hot Tribunal room, full of local electricians, as she sprung trap after trap for each of the Fahey brothers.

Ms Machin, I understand, was formerly in Chambers in London, but has now moved back home to a Manchester Chambers, where she is regarded as a bit of a radical bobby dazzler. Certainly she charmed us all with her silver tongue like ‘one of the lads’.

She threw questions with the deadly accuracy of a dart thrower in a Tap-Room . She had the Fahey brothers leaping around like a crowd of Hibernian Calibans as if tickled ‘With a raven’s feather from an unwholesome fen’, until they were all tied-up in knots and fit for nowt.

She flew at them like Prospero’s Ariel and,

‘Before you could say, Come and Go,

And breathe twice; and cry So, so;

Each one, tripping on his toe…’

‘AMICUS is our Union!’ cried Michael Fahey from the witness’ box. This had Ms Machin on her feet: ‘Your Union?’ - the employer’s Union?

‘Yes, we pay the union dues for the men’, replied Fahey. But this, it seems, is not a straight forward check-off payment of union dues; it’s more like a backhander paid by the bosses to the union, whether the men agree to it or not!

In part AMICUS is looking increasingly like a union that has been bought and sold by the bosses in the building trade. Sweetheart Deals and a payoff by the bosses to the AMICUS union is creating an unsavoury situation on the building sites. In the case of the locked-out Manchester electricians it seems Roger Furnage, a now pensioned-off AMICUS official, tried to enforce the black-list against Steve Acheson on the 'One Manchester Piccadilly' site.

As Ms Machin submitted for the electricians: ‘It was more likely than not that Mr Furnage (AMICUS official) told (Dave Fahey, DAF) that Mr Acheson, a well known “troublemaker” and TGWU member, was on site. On 9, May 2003 David Fahey had decided that it was an appropriate time to dismiss some TGWU members.’

How can justice be done when the union and the boss are up each other’s backside? How can justice be done when a City Council, which dishes out the contracts to companies like Carillion/DAF, says one thing and does

another? Richard Leese, Manchester City Council Labour Leader, says he is keen on safety at work and wants to protect local labour, but then gives the bosses a free hand to build his ‘World Class City’.

DAF: A company led by Calibans

In the witness box Dave Fahey said he had told Carillion, that in future his firm was going to monitor who it employed more carefully. Blessed be the Blacklist! He said he had only found out late in the day when the Agencies had told him ‘that Steve Acheson specialised in taking employers to the Industrial Tribunal.’

The truth is the Caliban bosses of DAF were incompetent. The Tribunal was ‘surprised by the lack of any documentary evidence to support the (bosses) contention that their was any problem with their (workers’) work output.’ The Tribunal accepted that the steward—Mr Acheson’s—‘evidence...was more credible than that of the (employers’) witnesses.’ But Carillion was angry at the bad publicity from the Manchester dispute at One Piccadilly Gardens and so, the Tribunal found: DAF ‘had come under pressure from the main contractor (Crown House/Carillion).’ The Tribunal found: ‘They were seeking assurance that the embarrassing episode would end quickly and there would be no reoccurrence.’

Or as Caliban says:

‘How does thy honour?

Let me lick thy shoe...and I thy Caliban,

For I thy foot-licker.’

And so, Dave Fahey’s Caliban licks Carillion’s boot before him; and behind Carillion, awaiting his turn, stands Richard Leese and Manchester City Council; and behind the City Council stands the union AMICUS.

So it was on May 21st, 2003 Dave Fahey wrote to ‘Crown House (Electrical) and Carillion…(that) as a consequence of the action on site we are looking at ways of tightening our selection procedure and can confirm that, with immediate effect, any potential employee will be thoroughly screened before any offer of employment is made.’

The case of Mr S.Acheson & others v DAF Electrical Contractors Ltd is embarrassing for the local building site bosses, the City Council and AMICUS, because it has laid bare aspects of the way they operate which is not very complimentary.

North West Cowboy

* No post-modernist deconstructions please: it says 'Sue Machin's sexy cross-examination' and not 'Sexy Sue Machin's cross-examination'.

bryan bamford nv
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May 21 2005 08:31

THE MANCHESTER ELECTRICIANS' REMEDIES HEARING:

Preliminary reports of the decision of the INDUSTRIAL TRIBUNAL REMEDIES HEARING are as follows:

The four victimised electricians each got the statutory £3,500 for 'DISMISSAL FOR TRADE UNION MEMBERSHIP'.

For their loss of earnings caused by their victimisation/sacking the TRIBUNAL awarded (on average) £18,000. The Tribunal then deducted £9,000 for their wages they earned between the end of their dispute last June and the REMEDIES HEARING this Spring.

This leaves £9,000 each on average. But the Tribunal decided that the electricians by striking/picketing their former bosses Daf for over a year were 'not actively seeking work' and had 'not mitigated their losses'.

Because of this the Tribunal decided:

The award of £9,000 would be cut by 75%; this would leave each electrician with about £2,250: out of which they would have to repay the dole for the first 6 weeks of their unemployment after their sacking: about £1,000.

All being well each electrician will finish up with just over £4,000 each. Watch this space for further info. The Manchester EPIU/TGWU branch meets on Monday next.

Logged

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bryan bamford nv
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May 24 2005 00:45

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MANCHESTER ELECTRICIANS MEETING

The EPIU/TGWU Manchester electricians met last night. The decision of the Manchester Industrial Tribunal Remedies Hearing was discussed.

It seems certain that there will be an appeal by the electricians against the amount awarded by the Tribunal. It is also likely that there will be some legal action against the company Carillion for running a black list against the EPIU electricians in Manchester.

Tameside Trade Union Council will be moving a motion against the blacklist at the Trade Union Council Conference next month.

The EPIU electricians having broken away from the electricians, who were in the EEPTU and who scabbed at Wapping, and later merged with the AUEW/AMICUS union, are anxious about the prospect of a merger with their former enemies the EEPTU scabs now in AMICUS. There was passion expressed by the EPIU electriciansat Monday's meeting when Tommy Hardacre a Manchester official of the electrician's section of AMICUS.

The threatened merger of the TGWU and AMICUS is of great concern to the EPIU electricians. The anticipated date of the merger according to Tommy Hardacre tonight is January 2007.

Mitch
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May 24 2005 09:05
bryan bamford nv wrote:
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MANCHESTER ELECTRICIANS MEETING

The EPIU/TGWU Manchester electricians met last night. The decision of the Manchester Industrial Tribunal Remedies Hearing was discussed.

It seems certain that there will be an appeal by the electricians against the amount awarded by the Tribunal. It is also likely that there will be some legal action against the company Carillion for running a black list against the EPIU electricians in Manchester.

Tameside Trade Union Council will be moving a motion against the blacklist at the Trade Union Council Conference next month.

The EPIU electricians having broken away from the electricians, who were in the EEPTU and who scabbed at Wapping, and later merged with the AUEW/AMICUS union, are anxious about the prospect of a merger with their former enemies the EEPTU scabs now in AMICUS. There was passion expressed by the EPIU electriciansat Monday's meeting when Tommy Hardacre a Manchester official of the electrician's section of AMICUS.

The threatened merger of the TGWU and AMICUS is of great concern to the EPIU electricians. The anticipated date of the merger according to Tommy Hardacre tonight is January 2007.

I bet they are worried about this merger - aren't the GMB part of the merger as well.

What's the next step here Bryan. I'm just about to join the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) as I'm a homeworker and want to try again to reach other homeworkers round here in Burnley and Nelson (I tried before and I know there are many - particularly women in the Asian community, and there are many doing packing at home. I got to the point of identifying some companies on the Lomeshaye Estate in Nelson who have a pool of homeworkers doing packing at home for them.

The main unions now don't want to know about these workers.

Isn't the next step reaching out to the IWW and anti-casualisation campaigns to bolster support for the electricians. This business style merger under the rightwing umbrella of Amicus is ominous indeed. What were the electricians thoughts on this?

The GMB used to be the biggest union in Burnley, with several branches. But they've closed, membership massively declined and I recently listened to a presentation by regional GMB 'leadership' at a community gathering round here, and basically they are going down the road of providing a training service for Burnley Borough Council. They have no interest in the increasing number of casual workers in this area, and no willing to help organise and support such workers.

What's the next step?

lucy82
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May 24 2005 17:34
Quote:
This leaves £9,000 each on average. But the Tribunal decided that the electricians by striking/picketing their former bosses Daf for over a year were 'not actively seeking work' and had 'not mitigated their losses'.

The decision of the tribunal defeats me with its crazy logic. How can you be actively seeking work when you are picketing your bosses? Did anyone explain to the learn-ed decision makers what the word "strike" actually means? I note you don't get anything for the stress and damn hard work the electricians put into this, carrying on fighting at times when things seem less than hopeful...

bryan bamford nv
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May 27 2005 06:19

Yes Mitch, the GMB is potentially part of this merger. It is a top-down inspired merger, probably designed to bring in the economies of scale and save money.

Some in the TGWu hope to retain lay-member/rank & file control in the new union. Apparately this is not the case in the other unions who appoint their officials. Though I understand there are industry-wide conferences in AMICUS, which give some rank & file control.

The expected date of the merger is January 2007. The Manchester electricians got this date from an official from AMICUS last Monday.

The Manchester electricians are very critical of the whole deal. As are the Wigan electricians. In London, I understand, the London electricians have pulled out of the union and have formed a rank & file movement down there. The London Joint Sites Committee seems to be the radical grouping down there and their publication is 'The Builders Crack': which calls for 'EVERYONE ON THE CARDS'.

Rank & file members of all the unions will get a vote on the deal before it goes thru. The creation of a new rule book may present a problem though. Members should have a say in this. But it is not clear how.

bryan bamford nv
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May 27 2005 06:46

Casualisation on the building sites is one of the issues most central to the concerns of the electricians. The Manchester electricians, as you know, already have considerable support from trade union branches, local trade union councils and the Manchester Social Forum.

I respect some people in the IWW like the miner Dave Douglass from Doncaster and Iliyan from Wales. If the current anti-casualisation campaigns can be linked to the rank & file struggles of the electricians this will be great.

The 'SHOCK OF THE NEW/TRIUMPH OF THE UGLY' meeting in Manchester at the begining of April showed me that there is a lot of potential links between different struggles. It seems to me there are links between the planning applications of developers like COUNTRYSIDE PROPERTIES in Rochdale's Spodden Valley and companies like CARILLION on sites like The Edge in Salford. And there were obviously links between what's going on in Barcelona on the building sites and Manchester. The problem is making these connections convincingly.

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Rob Ray
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May 27 2005 08:17

Ah sod knew there was something I'd been forgetting to do, din't go back to the Burnley boards again. Mind if I cut this to a usable length for the paper, or do you fancy writing a (news, cos most people don't know about it) article of about 450-600 words?

If you want to write it, send to the ipswich_anarchists@yahoo.co.uk account, as the freedom copy account is having problems at the moment with receiving mail (ie. it ain't) and it's mine and my brother's issue this next one.

lucy82
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May 27 2005 10:30
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It seems to me there are links between the planning applications of developers like COUNTRYSIDE PROPERTIES in Rochdale's Spodden Valley and companies like CARILLION on sites like The Edge in Salford

talking of Countryside properties, we found out this week whats going on in Salford re housing restructure/PFI/stock transfer etc etc and Countryside properties are involved. hardly surprizing cause they have their fingers in many pies.

bryan bamford nv
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Jun 6 2005 21:06

What follows was on the oogleboogle.proboards23.com

BURNLEY VOICE WEB SITE.

bryan

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Re: Unscrupulous Employers

« Reply #27 on Today at 4:07pm »

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BLACKLISTING MOTION AT TUC TRADE UNION COUNCILS' Conference 2005 in Liverpool:

'Conference expresses its deep concern at the continued practice of "blacklisting" in private industry and in particular the construction industry and many none unionised workplaces.

'This was highlighted at the 2004 Conference in Birmingham because of the TGWU-Daf Electricians dispute in Manchester.

'Conference is pleased that the Daf Electricians Tribunal hearing found in favour of the TGWU Daf Electricians.

'Conference calls on the TUC and all affiliated trade unions to continue to support workers blacklisted, and for them not to co-operate with any company carrying out that practice.'

To be moved by

Greater Manchester TUC.

The individual moving the motion is believed to be from Tameside TUC: this Trade Union Council has worked close to the electricians, the Manchester Social Forum and is understood to be a NANista.

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bryan

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Re: Unscrupulous Employers

« Reply #28 on Today at 4:15pm »

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THE ABOVE TUC CONFERENCE IN LIVERPOOL WILL BE NEXT WEEKEND. THE MANCHESTER ELECTRICIANS MAY BE HOLDING A FRINGE MEETING ON THE ISSUE OF BLACKLISTING AT 5.30PM ON THE SATURDAY.

bryan bamford nv
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Jun 13 2005 06:33

NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF TRADE UNION COUNCILS MOTION ON BLACKLISTING.

The Motion above on Blacklisting was fully supported by the National Trade Union Council Conference in Liverpool yesterday, without a vote against.

A fuller report will follow.

bryan bamford nv
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Jun 18 2005 07:33

Saii writes:

"Ah sod knew there was something I'd been forgetting to do, din't go back to the Burnley boards again. Mind if I cut this to a usable length for the paper, or do you fancy writing a (news, cos most people don't know about it) article of about 450-600 words?"

The NORTH WEST COWBOY No.1 in which the above leader first appeared came out in November last year. A copy was sent to John/FREEDOM in the Autumn & also appeared on the BURNLEY VOICE website: oogleboogle.proboards23.com under the item Casualisation & on the EXPLOITATIVE EMPLOYERS thread. In issues No2 & No3 of NORTHERN VOICES, which is sold main stream in many newsagents in the North, particular Greater Salford, east Manchester, Rochdale, Oldham, Bury, some areas of West Yorkshire & Burnley, there were articles and interviews with the electricians while they were involved in the lock-out. There are two booklets entitled 'LOCKED-OUT MANCHESTER ELECTRICIANS No1 & 2', produced with the aid of local trade union branches, Trade Union Councils, Manchester Social Forum, the NANistas & .Northern Voices'. Particular support came from the Fire Brigades' Union & No5 Region and Tim Jones of the SIMON JONES CAMPAIGN gave his support & spoke on a platform with them in 2004 at the time of the Spring Festival of the Labour Party in Manchester.

It is amazing that FREEDOM has managed to overlook this dispute, which has been debated regularly at NAN Conferences in the North. Both the Trots in Manchester (SWP & Workers Power) and the affiliated anarchists of Anarchist Fed. & Sol Fed have held aloof from this campaign, which may yet have serious consequences for industrial relations in this country. The Sol Fed. publication 'Catalyst' was mentioned at the Remedies Hearing in reference to the dispute, but it was used by the employers to discredit the electricians' claim for damages. It is true that all of these organisations did give money to the electricians' HARDSHIP FUND during the dispute and did attend the mass meetings that the Manchester Social Forum organised, but they now seemed embarassed by the continued development of the campaign. For all there talk of 'CLASS STRUGGLE', what these trot & affiliated anarchist organisations have in common lack of stamina & tenacity: they all seem more interested in playing ring-a-ring-a-roses with other tiny groups.

A lack of stamina & tenacity is the hallmark & curse of the British Left.

The article you refer to above still is of historical interest and you can feel free to cut it down, though another NORTH WEST COWBOY came out last week in time for the TRADE UNION COUNCIL CONFERENCE; at the weekend at which I moved the motion on BLACKLISTING. Naturally, I based my address to the Conference on the MANCHESTER ELECTRICIANS' DAF dispute & their Tribunal Hearing & their recent REMEDIES HEARING.

The current NW COWBOY No.2 I'll send to you at FREEDOM. Basically it covers issues of BLACkLISTING in the construction industry in the Northe West. The NORTH WEST COWBOY dubs inself a 'NORTH WEST BUILDING SITE BULLETIN FOR RANK & FILE TRADE UNIONISTS'. It has been backed by the Manchester Social Forum, some trade union braches and local activists. It is circulated on the local building sites, and much talked about by workers in the local building trade. In a way, I suppose it is modeled on the "BUILDERS' CRAIK" (excuse spelling) of the London Joint Sites' Committee; another rank& file paper has since been put out in Merseyside.

At the moment the Manchester Electricians are in consultation with their solicitors and looking into the possibility of an appeal. The electricians shared a platform in Manchester, in April, with an urban critic of city design Eduard Masjuan and health & safety campaigners involved in the Rochdale Spodden Valley anti-asbestos dispute. Eduard Masjuan is close to the Spanish CGT (General Confederation of Labour), which is the third biggest trade union confederation in Spain. The CGT came out of the old CNT, which had a great reputation in the Spanish Civil War.

All this is interesting because it involves link-ups, through the Manchester Social Forum, between the rank & file electricians, health & safety campaigners, critics of urban design, issues regarding the merger of AMICUS & the TGWU, and casualisation.

I believe there is a meeting of affiliated anarchists today, in Bolton, to discuss 'casualisation', yet neither the MANCHESTER SOCIAL FORUM, the NANistas, the Manchester Electricians, people associated with the COWBOY OR Northern Voices have been invited. This is interesting given that the electyricians are in the forefront of a radical campaign involving casualisation (as well as health& safety) in the area such as has not been seen for some time.

knightrose
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Jun 18 2005 16:11
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I believe there is a meeting of affiliated anarchists today, in Bolton, to discuss 'casualisation', yet neither the MANCHESTER SOCIAL FORUM, the NANistas, the Manchester Electricians, people associated with the COWBOY OR Northern Voices have been invited. This is interesting given that the electyricians are in the forefront of a radical campaign involving casualisation (as well as health& safety) in the area such as has not been seen for some time.

As usual, a mixture of half-truths. A person who goes along to NAN (which is all being a NANista amounts to) was present at the meeting, as you knew he would be. All the other groups you refer to essentially amount to you anyway.

I am amazed that you have managed to so antagonise some anarchists in the north that they insisted you not be invited. If you want some advise, I would suggest you stop dominating meetings, give others a chance to talk and follow good meeting practice. And stop trying to stir shit about others through the pages of Cock of the North and pretending to be the only voice of anarchism in the north.

I'm probably going to regret getting involved in this ...

bryan bamford nv
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Jun 18 2005 19:29

I accept what you say about a member of the Northern Anarchist Network attending the casualisation meeting today. Yet Bob, I know you didn't do it with bad intentions, but I'd like to caution against pointing the finger at any particular individual as being responsible for the NW COWBOY.

The NW COWBOY is not like Catalyst or Organise, it is the publication of a group of workers which goes out on the building sites: the aim being to link-up a Rank & File building workers movement. Publications on the shopfloor or building sites are clearly taken seriously by companies named: especially when the info published details serious problems on certain named building sites. People get sacked by rashly being named in the way you have done and there can be legal implications for individuals named as being responsible in the way you have done. I accept responsibility only for the articles signed by me.

The MANCHESTER SOCIAL FORUM as a body has agreed to support the COWBOY, and it has given some financial support, BUT HAS NO PART IN THE PROCESS OF EDITING IT. Several trade union branches (not named) support it & have provided funds. There is a mobile no. on the NW COWBOY, but I understand that for security reasons there is no address.

One main theme of this thread being about BLACKLISTING should have signaled that this is a very delicate matter.

I shall not comment on your other points a this to time, but would warn anyone to act responsibily when commenting upon the electricians. The fact that Catalyst of the Sol Fed appeared in the bundle of documents assembled to support the Daf employers' case should in itself be warning enough. The Daf employers also surfed the web to get evidence toi back their case at the Tribunal. The Manchester electrician when questioned about Catalyst at the Tribunal, denied honestly that he knew anything about the organisation Sol Fed. Caution comrades, when dealing in matters of this kind.

barrywoodling
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Jun 20 2005 10:23

It is a matter of some concern that some anarchist comrades didnt want the editor of Nortern Voices to attend the meeting in Bolton to organise a campaign against casualisation. Furthermore the personal criticisms of companero Bamford leave a lot to be desired.

It is also rather worrying that neither the Manchester Social forum, Nanistas and Manchester electricians associated with the North West Cowboy were invited.

Serious issues were raised relating to the Manchester Social Forum, and the NAN which completely misrepresent the situation. Nevertheless, It would not be very constructive to go down this road at the moment.

It is important to refrain from personal attacks and build the strongest possible campaign against casualisation of labour and for workplace safety. The campaign should be inclusive not exclusive and all elements f the anarchist, libertarian, and anti authoritarian movement should be welcome.

Barry Woodling

Manchester Social Forum

Northern Anarchist Network

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Rob Ray
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Jun 20 2005 10:45

Brian, I made a perfectly resonable request, and I've already apologised if the issue has been overlooked, so don't take that tone of voice. I'm trying to be civil here, though I'll be honest, I've heard nothing but wild accusations and badmouthing of practically everyone from you since we first spoke (online), including of me, and I've never even met you! Doesn't it worry you that someone who has absolutely no reason to dislike you gets this impression from so few posts?

If possible, it would be easiest if you could write or adapt an article giving an overall summary and update on the event no longer than 600 words (that may be cut depending on space) and then email it to copy@freedompress.org.uk, so we don't have to type it up. We're VERY short on time to do stuff like that. Deadline for next issue is Thursday 30th June.

pushka
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Jun 20 2005 11:32

Hiya, Bryan you and I know each other well, and Saii, we met at the London event this weekend and spoke about Northern Articles in Freedom mag didn't we?

Bryan, I agree with Saii, don't make judgements, he was very nice and civil with us Burnley lot at the weekend, and we agreed that we would need to be more pro-active in the North in order to get our articles included...

Please send your article to Freedom, I'm sure it will be given as much consideration as all other articles submitted...

Best of luck everyone!!

Seumus
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Jun 20 2005 11:49

"A MIXTURE OF HALF TRUTHS" , Knightrose after your e-mail you can claim this about Brian Bamford ?

"All the other groups you refer to essentially amount to you anyway!"

Knightrose

If this is true it is a testimony to one man's endevour in the Cause. The stones should be thrown at the other rather dessicated groups who pontificate from afar but do not get their feet dirty with common folk.

Bamfords real fault would appear to lie with his inability to get on with the leadership of the six in Solfed, that moribund descendant of better things. Bamford's endevour over the last year alone is a credit to anarchism .It certainly goes to make amends for any of his faults. If more anarchists got involved in the struggle and fought their corner to the end, we should do better.

Steve
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Jun 20 2005 14:54
SEUMUS wrote:
Bamfords real fault would appear to lie with his inability to get on with the leadership of the six in Solfed

What the fuck does that mean reverend?

Seumus
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Jun 20 2005 16:00

JUST WHAT IT SAYS STEVE!

Steve
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Jun 20 2005 16:18

No need to shout.

Does it mean

a) Bamford can't get on with the leadership of SolFed - total membership 6 people or

b) can't get on with the six people who constitute the SF leadership?

If b then could you indicate who they are? I'm sure other SF members would be interested (as would I).

knightrose
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Jun 20 2005 16:21

I said I'd regret this ...

knightrose
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Jun 20 2005 16:25

anyway, Bryan gave me a very sensible response.

I realise he's done a lot of good stuff and respect him for it, but I think he should consider what I said about behaviour.

Steve
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Jun 20 2005 16:33
knightrose wrote:
I said I'd regret this ...

Too late now. tongue

Funny thing is I'm the least annoyed member of Preston SF

lucy82
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Jun 20 2005 18:40

bloody hell. i turn my back for two minutes and you all start biting each others faces off. if you really want to fight each other can i ask you to do it by pm?

or alternatively i could hire a boxing ring and the last one alive can be the companero? come on people, get a sense of perspective or at least stop washing your dirty laundry in public. think what a fine impression we're giving people of anarchism in the northwest eh?

beanis
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Jun 20 2005 18:57
barrywoodling wrote:
It is a matter of some concern that some anarchist comrades didnt want the editor of Nortern Voices to attend the meeting in Bolton to organise a campaign against casualisation. Furthermore the personal criticisms of companero Bamford leave a lot to be desired.

Barry Woodling

Manchester Social Forum

Northern Anarchist Network

shut up barry, your not in spain anymore you total gimboid.

Steve
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Jun 20 2005 20:24
lucy82 wrote:
bloody hell. i turn my back for two minutes and you all start biting each others faces off. if you really want to fight each other can i ask you to do it by pm?

or alternatively i could hire a boxing ring and the last one alive can be the companero? come on people, get a sense of perspective or at least stop washing your dirty laundry in public. think what a fine impression we're giving people of anarchism in the northwest eh?

They started it. tongue

Seriously we’re sick and tired of the snide remarks being made and things being written about Preston SolFed. We’ve tried to take no notice of it but they won’t let it go. Never mind the others I’m not having a bloody priest having a go and ignoring it no matter what name he goes under, after all we’re not fucking liberals.

knightrose
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Joined: 8-11-03
Jun 20 2005 20:36

OK Lucy. I'll say no morte, though to be honest I've said all I want to anyway.

captainmission
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Joined: 20-09-03
Jun 20 2005 21:01

yeah, barry's a total spazmonaut

bryan bamford nv
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Jun 20 2005 23:31

Saii says:

"Brian, I made a perfectly resonable request, and I've already apologised if the issue has been overlooked, so don't take that tone of voice."

I didn't realise I was being gruff with you. And I accept your apology. All I was concerned about was that this dispute has been going on for over two years & FREEDOM hasn't noticed it. 'Catalyst' (Sol Fed) gave it some coverage during the actual dispute & this was refered to at the Tribunal, last February. I don't hold you responsible personally for Freedom's failure to pick up on this. I pointed out on the BURNLEY VOICE site that I thought you were sincere & the BURNLEY ANARCHISTS thought you sincere in trying to resolve the problems of comunication at FREEDOM. I don't know how long you have been with FREEDOM, but I think you are fairly new & can't be held responsible for the historical difficulties since 2000 with that paper.

The snag is that there seems to be a revolving-door editorial system at FREEDOM & it's difficult to tell who is editor at any one time. Toby, we have been told, turned to the Church over a year ago & sources close to FREEDOM tell us that he left FREEDOM in a worse state than he found it. That is hearsay & probably refers to the bookshop as much as the paper. I'm not quite sure what you want for your 600 words: a history of the dispute from May 2003 or a report of the current situation? Things are changing from week to week & just now the BLACKLISTING issue is the most important (see motion). But the solicitors are looking into the matter & there may yet be an appeal about the recent award. It is not wise to say too much about this at this point for legal reasons.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards Bryan.

captainmission
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Joined: 20-09-03
Jun 20 2005 23:54
Quote:
That is hearsay.......

well if its hearsay brian why you repeatinging on a public forum?

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what you want for your 600 words: a history of the dispute from May 2003 or a report of the current situation?

well why don't you write what you think would be best to go in the paper then?