Derilict Politics

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bryan bamford nv
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Nov 3 2005 19:36
Derilict Politics

I was at a meeting of Sol Fed last night on fighting the BNP. It later occurred to me how hopelessly derilict is contemporary politics of the left. This merely confirmed what I'd experienced at a meeting in Bolton two weeks before at the Socialist Club. On that occassion a Labour MP, a radical socialist John Nicolson and Sheila Rowbothem had spoken on the 'Future of Socialism'.

The Bolton Labour MP had attacked the anarchistsand their control of the Club in the 1980s, he had then gone on to do a damage limitaion exercise of behalf of the Labour Party. John Nicolson was in a way more disappointing arguing that now China has been lost as a socialist hope we were left with Chevez and Castro's Cuba. 'I hope Castro lives forever' he chanted. Only Shiela Rowbotham came to argue that socialism was about societies and values and not about States and power blocks.

But the libertarian performance is not inspiring either. At last night's Sol Fed meeting we were confronted with a dilemma in Miles Platting, where a Mr Derek Adams of the BNP lives and has been leading a campaign in opposition to the Manchester Labour Council's development and demolition plans. Naturally the communities in that part of Manchester is not rite chuffed about having their houses knocked down.

In 'Northern Voices' and on the Manchester Social Forum and in the Manchester Trade Union Councils we have been voicing criticisms of the City Council's policies on urban planning and the demolition of communities. We even bought a distinguished anarchist critic of urbanisation from Barcelona. A bloke close to the CGT. His criticism of modern town planning was withering and his ideas were morale booster.

Now the problem before the Sol Fed and the left in Manchester is how does one attack MR Adams, when he is in the forefront of a campaign we should all be backing? Someone said he is playing the 'Liberal card' of grassroots politics. Well yes, and it is because the anarchists in Manchester and even the Manchester Social Forum, has not operated adequately at the grassroots that Mr Adams has been able to cease the innitiative.

It may sound like we are blowing our own trumpet but in some areas this couldn't have happened. Swinton where the NANistas and Northern Voices has a presence is one area, Rochdale is another I believe and In Stalybridge i would be difficult for a campaign like this to get going without a libertarian input. In Burnley, of course, there is now a libertarian presence in Burnley Voice, which can put up an alternative opposition to the Labour Party and the BNP.

The Sol Fed meeting showed our impotence in some geographical areas like Miles Platting and East Manchester. It showed that in these areas because we have no community base or cultural input that we are left to putting elastoplasts on a crisis situation. The problem is not the racism of the BNP. The problem is our own neglect of the communities in our midst for decades while we embarked on sectarian politics. The crisis is a crisis of sectarian politics which has gone on too long. It is time comrades to get out of the comfort zone and get into the politics of everyday life.

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Steven.
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Nov 3 2005 19:59
bryan bamford nv wrote:
The Sol Fed meeting showed our impotence in some geographical areas like Miles Platting and East Manchester. It showed that in these areas because we have no community base or cultural input that we are left to putting elastoplasts on a crisis situation. The problem is not the racism of the BNP. The problem is our own neglect of the communities in our midst for decades while we embarked on sectarian politics. The crisis is a crisis of sectarian politics which has gone on too long. It is time comrades to get out of the comfort zone and get into the politics of everyday life.

God I love people with no sense of self-awareness or irony.

bryan bamford nv
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Nov 4 2005 16:19

The problem in the Northern Quarter of Miles Platting of the BNP supporter - Derek Adams - in seizing the initiative and leading a campaign against the Manchester City Council's 'Development & Demolition' project is interesting. Our contacts inside the Council tell us that it has already had the effect of forcing some Labour Councilors to jump off their Party bandwaggon and oppose the redevelopment in an act of self-preservation in advance of the Local Elections next May.

In the summer of 2003 Jim Petty, then a member of Sol Fed, described in Northern Voices No.1 how the abandonment of the white working class by the Labour Party in Burnley had led to the rise of the BNP in that town. It is the same in Manchester City centre there is an arrogant attitude in the Labour Party that thinks it can steamroller its plans through in the city. The areas of north Manchester tend to fall under Labour Party control historically.

Not only does the rise of Mr Adams show the stupidity of the Labour Party, and the weakness of the libertarians it shows the feeble mindedness of Respect and Unite against Fascism. Their approach of 'one size fits all' it never sensitive enough to deal with problems which really concern ordinary folk like having their homes knocked down.

It is true that Ron of Sol Fed did propose at a Sol Fed meeting over a year ago that we leaflet Ancoats (near Miles Platting). Ancoats is where MERCI operates and has been a venue for Radical Bookfairs and conferences of the NAN for years. I remember supporting that proposal but it was never followed up, it was probably raised at the local Social Forum as well.

It is interesting that the white working class in these areas on the outskirts of the north of the city centre are rebeling against City Hall in Manchester, while in the Paris suburbs rioters are torching cars and pelting police are the sons of African and Arab immigrants and mostly Muslims. Both groups, in their own way, presumably feel abandoned and neglected by the system.

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 4 2005 16:35

Bryan, I was interested in libertarian politics because I thought that co-operation, mutual aid and solidairty are one of the few things we as ordinary people have which can bring about progressive social change in an otherwise bleak existence, yet its petty individuals like yourself that I find frustrating to deal with, because all you ever seem to do is attack those you should be working with. Im intrigued Bryan...who if anyone are your allies?

In fact I dont think Ive ever read a post of yours which didnt slag of Solfed. And Im continually at odds why you are so pathologically determined to continue this behaviour.

Can I suggest that if you had a problem with what was said at the meeting you raised it and debated in a fraternal manner, and if you didnt sway anyones judgement, you dont come back here and spin your yarns like some petty bourgeois cranck.

regards

bryan bamford nv
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Nov 4 2005 17:02

I wrote:

'The Sol Fed meeting showed our impotence in some geographical areas like Miles Platting and East Manchester. It showed that in these areas because we have no community base or cultural input that we are left to putting elastoplasts on a crisis situation.'

Good God! You are being a bit thin-skinned Mr Lost. I said 'The Sol Fed meeting showed our impotence'.

By that I mean both the British left in general and the libertarian left. I was at the meeting on Wednesday and I think it ought to be admitted that we were in a dilemma on how to confront the situation in Miles Platting. That dilemma is of our own (the left in general) making to some extent. The only excuse for NORTHERN VOICES I can offer (and I think the person - Mike - who brought up the issue of Miles Platting would agree) is that for over two years we have been arguing that the urban planning and design policies of both the national government government and Labour controlled councils, particularly in Manchester would lead to social problems, crime, racism and misery for many of us in the North. Jim Petty was making this point in Burnley over two years ago, now what is wrong in reminding people of that?

bryan bamford nv
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Nov 5 2005 14:04

I spoke to a member of Oldham United Against the BNP last night, and he agreed that the involvement of the BNP in the save Miles Platting campaign does present a problem. It being led by a member of BNP and possible candidate in next year's local elections. He admitted that it would be difficult for outsiders to challenge the BNP without appearing to attack the residents' campaign to protect the Miles Platting community.

He said that in Oldham they had had a similar problem in the Royton area, but had managed to diffuse the credit to the BNP there. The problem he said is that in other parts of Greater Manchester, like Mile Platting, there is little groundwork that has been done in the community.

He claimed the left had neglected the interests of the wider community.

pushka
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Nov 5 2005 23:04
october_lost wrote:
Bryan, I was interested in libertarian politics because I thought that co-operation, mutual aid and solidairty are one of the few things we as ordinary people have which can bring about progressive social change in an otherwise bleak existence, yet its petty individuals like yourself that I find frustrating to deal with, because all you ever seem to do is attack those you should be working with. Im intrigued Bryan...who if anyone are your allies?

In fact I dont think Ive ever read a post of yours which didnt slag of Solfed. And Im continually at odds why you are so pathologically determined to continue this behaviour.

Can I suggest that if you had a problem with what was said at the meeting you raised it and debated in a fraternal manner, and if you didnt sway anyones judgement, you dont come back here and spin your yarns like some petty bourgeois cranck.

regards

Octoberlost, I'm interested to hear your comments regarding Bryan's post and of your belief 'that co-operation, mutual aid and solidairty are one of the few things we as ordinary people have which can bring about progressive social change in an otherwise bleak existence'...I think that Bryan and all of us in Burnley, and probably all of the posters on this and other sites like this believe the same...may I remind you that it is not only Bryan who has personalised arguments within the anarchic community, members of Solfed have quite openely attacked/ridiculed Bryan, N.Voices NAN and Burnley Anarchists in the past. I agree that this pettiness does nobody any good...it is about time it was laid to rest by ALL parties concerned...I don't wish to open up old wounds as far as this goes, and hope that this post does not generate a whole load of 'well he started it first' replies as it has in the past...

I thank you for posting on The Burnley Voice recently, Octoberlost, and welcome your invitation for us from Burnley to attend some of the upcoming Sol Fed film nights...us providing you with a projector for same...I just hope that this invitation is from the other members of Solfed too, and not just from yourself, and that it is extended beyond Burnley, to Bryan and others, and that there will be no ill feelings if we do attend any of your gatherings...

With all best wishes,

Michele smile

Thank

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Nov 5 2005 23:58
bryan bamford nv wrote:
It may sound like we are blowing our own trumpet but in some areas this couldn't have happened.

It does indeed. In fact, it seems to me, that this entire post has basically been a thinly disguised attack on SolFed members, coupled with a favourable comparison of the 'NANists'' own strength, folowed with a rather hollow call for 'unity'.

A rather typical example of leftist politics, really sad

pushka
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Nov 6 2005 03:35

I'm sorry you found my post 'hollow' Lazlo...

Would you prefer the Nanistas and Solfed people to carry on arguing like children, or to try to carry on peacefully in the future?

My sentiments were sincere...I would prefer us all to be friends...naive as that may be.

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Nov 7 2005 16:04
pushka wrote:
I'm sorry you found my post 'hollow' Lazlo

No, I meant that Bryan's own post ended with a call for unity, which was rather undermined by his previous remarks.

billysmith
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Nov 9 2005 14:48
pushka wrote:
members of Solfed have quite openely attacked/ridiculed Bryan, N.Voices NAN and Burnley Anarchists in the past.

I haven't seenor heard of any instances of Solfed members attacking Burnley Anarchists. Care to elaborate?

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 14 2005 18:54

I will further what billy just said, I have no qualms with the Burnley lot, nor does anyone else I know, I realise things have been strained down to the obvious, but I stand by my comments on Bryan and I havent the faintest idea who or what NANista is, or who they represent?

I stated in my email to bryan

Quote:
In fact I dont think Ive ever read a post of yours which didnt slag of Solfed. And Im continually at odds why you are so pathologically determined to continue this behaviour.

Yet neither pushka or bryan as challenged this, which I can only see confirms my suspicions.....

pushka
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Nov 15 2005 01:17

October_lost, You need to check the posts (check all posts option) for various members of Solfed to be able to find the unsavoury stuff that has been written regarding both members of Nan and Burnley Anarchists, I did not say that Bryan had never posted anything negative about Solfed, though I do not feel that every post he has ever made has been negative towards them. I just stated that I feel there has been this sort of error on both sides of the fence.

NAN does not have a membership per se, as has been discussed in another thread on here, however I will state that I attend NAN conferences, therefore that would make me, in effect, a member if there was an official membership list.

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Nov 15 2005 01:22

Why set up sides, etc? Seems like there's some people who enjoy having digs, and other people who get on with useful stuff. I know who I'd rather be with, regardless of which meetings they go to.

billysmith
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Nov 15 2005 15:22
october_lost wrote:
I havent the faintest idea who or what NANista is, or who they represent?

NANista is just a pretentious affectation.

billysmith
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Nov 15 2005 15:29
pushka wrote:
October_lost, You need to check the posts (check all posts option) for various members of Solfed to be able to find the unsavoury stuff that has been written regarding both members of Nan and Burnley Anarchists,

I only know one member of solfed. I tried checking his posts and I'm none the wiser, in fact I found posts offering to go over to Burnley to offer support!

Does this all stem from that Nelson 'no show' meeting?

lucy82
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Nov 15 2005 18:54

my stories, all my stories disappeared.. my genius wasted.. noooooooooo cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry

pushka
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Nov 16 2005 05:06

I know Lucy!!! Soooo Sad!!! They were a real tonic to all this victriol!!!

Come on everybody, let's stop being so sensitive with one another, and lets make the fresh start that was suggested in the General board!!!

Let's forget who said what, to whom, where and when...and just try to be more positive in the future.

billysmith
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Nov 16 2005 10:03
pushka wrote:
Let's forget who said what, to whom, where and when...and just try to be more positive in the future.

Translation

I've been sussed and don't want to answer any awkard questions

lucy82
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Nov 16 2005 17:39
Quote:
Come on everybody, let's stop being so sensitive with one another, and lets make the fresh start that was suggested in the General board!!!

Let's forget who said what, to whom, where and when...and just try to be more positive in the future.

i support that, pushka. wink 8)

Quote:

Translation

I've been sussed and don't want to answer any awkard questions

roll eyes

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Nov 16 2005 17:47

Since I was only ever responding in a defensive way to the slurs of Bryan, I find it amusing I am (along with countless others) being rebuffed as though its six of one and half a dozen of the other.

If you want a lesson in sectarianism, go read Bryans backlog of posts.....

pushka
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Nov 16 2005 18:00

Ocotber_lost and Billysmith...you seem intent on carrying on this fiasco...you each know that unsavoury things have been said on both sides, you can find the posts if you search far enough, I am not going to do that for you as I wish to just get along with everyone, Billysmith, I'm not feeling like I've been sussed at all, and must say, your own posts don't really seem to 'add' anything of substance to the boards, so why do you continue to post your little sarcasms?

Mitch
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Nov 16 2005 18:20
october_lost wrote:
Since I was only ever responding in a defensive way to the slurs of Bryan, I find it amusing I am (along with countless others) being rebuffed as though its six of one and half a dozen of the other.

If you want a lesson in sectarianism, go read Bryans backlog of posts.....

October_boss before (on the left)

October_boss after (kickin' arse)

By the way I've flogged all those CDs and DVDs you lent me to a guy who runs a stall on Nelson Market - hope you don't mind. Although, he said he didn't want the Crass ones eek 8)

You're ridiculously up your own theoretical arse as usual, but I still luvs ya grin ya fuckin' strawberry!

Give us a kiss!! grin eek

lucy82
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Nov 16 2005 18:38

i feel a story coming on grin

lucy82
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Nov 16 2005 18:51

it was six weeks to christmas and tempers in santas workshop were running high. The Burnley elves glared at each other through bloodshot eyes, fingers fumbling through bags of rainbow coloured sweets. “ave yer got eny more rite chuffs pushka?” shouted mitch. “aw, fuck off” said pushka but she chucked over an assorted bunch of rite chuffs (along with some softly chevez caramels, castros cola cubes, and power blocks that were piling up on her side of the table). its not her fault, poor bitch she thought, but I wish she’d leave off dressing up as a fucking pink rabbit. She stuffed another handful into the bag of derelict politics, her gaze wandering to billythetroll who was busy sewing swastikas on the heads of fashbratz dolls.

It was all Santas fault. Fresh from some business course about targeting your market and getting out of the comfort zone he had shut down production of roboraptors, chatnow and nintendogs and moved the whole kaboodle to Greater Manchester. Early market research conducted by Mrs Santa suggested that hollow posts, fashbratz dolls, assorted derelict politics and liberal games were running riot in the parlours of Miles Platting, Bolton and Manchester while there was a thriving market for self-blowing trumpets and anti-impotence drugs in Swinton, Stalybridge and Rochdale. The Santas were on a roll.

Pushka the elf gazed out sadly at the dark Burnley night remembering the soft swirls of bloodsplattered snow seen from the workshop window this time last year. Ah then she thought it was all so different. From the terrible carnage of the attack on the Burnley Anarchists had come peace with the SofFed wolves. Even the Nanistas had begun tentatively to hug people in a Spanish way, and although this had seemed a little odd at first, beer and a liberal application of buttered barms had helped. For one moment, even Pushka had thought that maybe, just maybe there was some good in the world, some small chance of bringing unity. Why oh why, she thought sadly, can’t we all just get along? Noone remembers those days now. It seemed as if time and the small but momentus death of libcom had erased every line.

to be continued..

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 17 2005 14:28
Mitch wrote:

By the way I've flogged all those CDs and DVDs you lent me to a guy who runs a stall on Nelson Market - hope you don't mind. Although, he said he didn't want the Crass ones eek 8)

You're ridiculously up your own theoretical arse as usual, but I still luvs ya grin ya fuckin' strawberry!

Give us a kiss!! grin eek

Ill have the Crass thing back then (you uncultured so and so) and Ill be popping over for a herbal tea on Sunday, so you have been warned.

knightrose
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Nov 17 2005 17:03

I've been reading this thread for some while. I can see the point that Bryan made at the beginning, but think it applies in part to all of us, not just some parts of the left and anarchist "movement".

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 17 2005 17:45
knightrose wrote:
I've been reading this thread for some while. I can see the point that Bryan made at the beginning, but think it applies in part to all of us, not just some parts of the left and anarchist "movement".

I particularly liked this bit

Quote:
The problem is our own neglect of the communities in our midst for decades while we embarked on sectarian politics. The crisis is a crisis of sectarian politics which has gone on too long. It is time comrades to get out of the comfort zone and get into the politics of everyday life.
pushka
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Nov 18 2005 01:18

Yippee! Knightrose and Octoberlost!! 2 positive posts...keep it up everybody!!! grin

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 18 2005 17:16

I was pointing out the irony that Bryan had a post rebuffing sectarianism, while he had a silly pop at solfed, which is, well, erm, just like every other post of his seems to.....

knightrose
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Nov 19 2005 08:52

I agree with october - the point I was maikng was that it applies to all, not some.

The problem often is that we think we are talking to non-politcal types, but in fact make our stuff so hard to access that in fact we are not. Others just retreat into safe little lifestyle ghettos. Even that is a tendency many of us share. Possibly not living close to others, but getting into a mind set that amounts to much the same.