DONATE NOW TO HELP UPGRADE LIBCOM.ORG

"Platformism" vs. "Insurrectionalism" How Deep the Dichotomy?

53 posts / 0 new
Last post
hpwombat
Offline
Joined: 13-11-06
Sep 3 2007 01:40
"Platformism" vs. "Insurrectionalism" How Deep the Dichotomy?

"Platformism" vs. "Insurrectionalism" How Deep the Dichotomy?

Similar

Both value the specific group (anarchist federation vs. affinity cluster)

Both value the general group (mass vs. base organization)

Both conflict with present union leadership

Both see labor as one point of struggle

Both see neighborhood communities as a point of struggle

Both advocate direct action as a method of change

Both are anti-state and anti-capitalist

Difference

How the specific group is organized (federation vs. network)

How the general group is organized (formal vs. informal)

The role of direct action in the labor movement and abroad

The political program

Jargon

What is missing?

thugarchist's picture
thugarchist
Offline
Joined: 26-11-06
Sep 3 2007 02:10

Difference
Platformism: Boring as hell
Insurrectionism: Batshit crazy

EdmontonWobbly's picture
EdmontonWobbly
Offline
Joined: 25-03-06
Sep 3 2007 13:30

If it isn't boring it's petty bourgeois adventurism.

lem
Offline
Joined: 25-07-05
Sep 3 2007 13:37

if you trwal the icc website [do, it's fun :)] they have a hardline against communist parties that are too adventurist oppurtunist etc., these are categories that the left communists have learned through tough times are reactionary and they have a hard line against them. maybe ironic that anarchists have very similar categories insurrecfionary reformist etc., just that the anarchist versions are so much more intense laugh out loud

AndrewF's picture
AndrewF
Offline
Joined: 28-02-05
Sep 3 2007 14:12

I wrote a rather long 'platformist' analysis of insurrectionalism last year which you can read at http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=3430

There is a reasonably serious debate in the comments following it with one or more anonymous insurrectionalists.

A Chilean comrade than wrote a reply to the article basically adding to areas which I had missed or where he thought I was a bit soft and we published both pieces together as a PDF at http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=5285

Both are also available in Spanish.

In writing the piece what struck me was how similar insurrectionalism is in many of its basic political assumptions/critique to the standard politics of much of the LibCom crew. Obviously there would be a rather substantial disagreement about methods.

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Sep 3 2007 14:23
JoeBlack2 wrote:
In writing the piece what struck me was how similar insurrectionalism is in many of its basic political assumptions/critique to the standard politics of much of the LibCom crew.

care to elaborate? presumably you're equating the 'post-left' with the 'ultra-left'? most insurrectionists i've discussed with reject class struggle, which is a pretty big basic political difference...

Mike Harman
Offline
Joined: 7-02-06
Sep 3 2007 14:31
Joseph K. wrote:
care to elaborate? presumably you're equating the 'post-left' with the 'ultra-left'? most insurrectionists i've discussed with reject class struggle, which is a pretty big basic political difference...

I think the batko group in Sweden describe themselves as insurrectionists, and are also close to Marcel of burgers and value and "communisation" etc. don't know of any others, and I'm not sure there's much connection to "insurrectionalism" either. At least one of the batko types posts on here very occasionally, maybe they can answer.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Sep 3 2007 14:35
Jack wrote:
JK - he obviously just said it because he knows it'll annoy us. As have a good majority of his recent posts. He's actually very good at it.

grin

JoeBlack2 wrote:
In writing the piece what struck me was how similar insurrectionalism is in many of its basic political assumptions/critique to the standard politics of much of the LibCom crew.

Ha yeah your UK section Dundee United told me I was an insurrectionist because I didn't support nationalising things, and would only support demands of revolution now. When I pointed him to the threads where I'd talked about my involvement in Unison's local govt 5% claim. He was unable to answer.

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Sep 3 2007 14:37
Jack wrote:
JK - he obviously just said it because he knows it'll annoy us. As have a good majority of his recent posts. He's actually very good at it.

of course, but we're discussing this on a public forum so i'm wondering if he's got anything to back it up, for the benefit of the tape like

georgestapleton's picture
georgestapleton
Offline
Joined: 4-08-05
Sep 3 2007 15:23

I'd say he was thinking about the standard understanding of the relationship between the militant, the class and revolution. There are some similarities. Although, its probably worth reading his piece on insurrectionism which is really good I think. One of my favourite pieces by him.

georgestapleton's picture
georgestapleton
Offline
Joined: 4-08-05
Sep 3 2007 15:30

To be honest I don't think the other article is great. Its written from a very different perspective though so it's interesting. Basically the author grew up involved in and around groups involved in armed struggle against pinochet but doesn't fetishize violence so it's more of a a 'fucking grow up' article.

thugarchist's picture
thugarchist
Offline
Joined: 26-11-06
Sep 3 2007 15:36

Similar
Platformism: Who?
Insurrectionalism: What?!

RevolutionReversal's picture
RevolutionReversal
Offline
Joined: 7-04-06
Sep 3 2007 16:11

I strongly agree with the critique of tactical dogmatism in Joe and Jose's articles.

it seems to me that tactics and organization are questions to be addressed in context, in which new situations should allow us to change our organizational methods. I think certain events and goals call for different organizations, its very possible that networks and collectives can co-exist side by side as they already do; and both can lend value to the struggle.

affinity groups make more sense during a riot or at a summit as well while doing sabotage; however, for a sustained organizational effort a collective and federation makes more sense where I am at now.

I think people just need to be more clear headed in their evaluation of their own tactics and see the short comings, and learn lessons from all currents of anarchism. I think people need to stop searching for some big TRUTH and realize everyday, and every situation calls for a minor truth of what will work at the time and for a certain duration. It might not be the same afterwards, but you have to keep constantly self-evaluating.

lem
Offline
Joined: 25-07-05
Sep 3 2007 17:52

jeepers i hate is when folks say that anti-unionization of workers is like all, well a bunch of kids up for a ruck. well it's true to an extent if you don't see the importance of politics or revolution. laugh out loud

it is clear there is now more than ever a split between the left and the leftist laugh out loud i mean we don't blame the leftist for thug why blame the left for insurrectionists.

eta2: i dunno perhaps i said that wrong.. if Jack tells me not to be against unionization i won't be smile

hpwombat
Offline
Joined: 13-11-06
Sep 4 2007 07:08

Interesting discussion you had Joe, thanks for the link. Apparantly there is plenty of ground for the connection of struggle if insurrectionary anarchists share the same areas of struggle as organized anarchist communists.

Smash Rich Bastards
Offline
Joined: 24-03-06
Sep 4 2007 15:14

I think, at least in theory, there are plenty of areas that anarchist-communists of both the platformist and insurrectionist tendencies could find commonality. Even historically we share alot of the same roots: Bakunin, Malatesta, Berkman, Lucy Parsons, IWPA, etc.

Unfortunately, at least in my experience among North American anarchists, most "insurrectionists" just seem like a bunch of internet geeks who talk tough and don't really have any involvement in real world struggles. The few European "insurrectionists" I've met (Greek, Spanish, etc) just seem like nihilistic a-holes. Pretty much a more politically motivated/tactically organized version of a drunk chaos punk. Awesome.

Not sure about anyone else, but I don't really have any interest in being directly associated with either version.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Sep 4 2007 15:33
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
yeah your UK section Dundee United

Hi John, please don't be intentionally dishonest, WSM does not have a UK section. Thanks.

I meant JoeBlack's UK section. I would've though Joe has left the WSM now he's in canadia, no?

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Sep 4 2007 15:46
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
yeah your UK section Dundee United

Hi John, please don't be intentionally dishonest, WSM does not have a UK section. Thanks.

I meant JoeBlack's UK section. I would've though Joe has left the WSM now he's in canadia, no?

I understand that he is an international member (supporter?) of the WSM, or something along those lines.

leader in exile?

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Sep 4 2007 16:01

sad

Do i take it then that you're the leader now? grin

Smash Rich Bastards
Offline
Joined: 24-03-06
Sep 4 2007 16:13
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
leader in exile?

That's immature and pretty insulting to the rest of the organisation.

Don't take it personally. Someone needs to out-do Chuck0 in undiscplined sectarian bullshit among anarcho-internet editors. That guy's held the title for far too long. wink

georgestapleton's picture
georgestapleton
Offline
Joined: 4-08-05
Sep 4 2007 16:40

Most sensible people in the org aren't on libcom. You only know the runt.

rata
Offline
Joined: 26-09-06
Sep 4 2007 16:50
guydebordisdead wrote:
Wait until they join the IWA. grin

Hopefully that will happen before this poll closes down, so that we are sure to win it wink

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Sep 5 2007 08:30
Smash Rich Bastards wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
leader in exile?

That's immature and pretty insulting to the rest of the organisation.

Don't take it personally. Someone needs to out-do Chuck0 in undiscplined sectarian bullshit among anarcho-internet editors. That guy's held the title for far too long. ;)

Ooh yeah I mean that was coming pretty close. Maybe I'll go back and edit it so it's not obviously taking the piss, then I'll delete all of you guys' posts criticising it? And then I'll put a giant crimethinc logo on the front page cool

Deezer
Offline
Joined: 2-10-04
Sep 5 2007 14:07
guydebordisdead wrote:
Jack wrote:
I want to be one of those for Organise!. cool

Wait until they join the IWA. grin (just ask revol)

guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
Quote:
leader in exile?

That's immature and pretty insulting to the rest of the organisation.

Cos you wouldn't be immature at all at all now would ye? Especially not just a few posts apart.

Yeah, Jack, we should sort out something with that. You'll have to promise to post all over the internet demanding other people wind up their organisations and join us on an individual basis though.

Smash Rich Bastards
Offline
Joined: 24-03-06
Sep 5 2007 17:05
John. wrote:
Smash Rich Bastards wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
John. wrote:
leader in exile?

That's immature and pretty insulting to the rest of the organisation.

Don't take it personally. Someone needs to out-do Chuck0 in undiscplined sectarian bullshit among anarcho-internet editors. That guy's held the title for far too long. ;)

Ooh yeah I mean that was coming pretty close. Maybe I'll go back and edit it so it's not obviously taking the piss, then I'll delete all of you guys' posts criticising it? And then I'll put a giant crimethinc logo on the front page cool

Hmm... yeah, you still have a long way to go to reach 'Chuck0 Editor Bastard' status.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Sep 5 2007 22:29

Norn Iron is part of the UK, dumbass.

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Sep 5 2007 22:46
John. wrote:
Norn Iron is part of the UK, dumbass.

it's the WSM in his account again wink

lem
Offline
Joined: 25-07-05
Sep 6 2007 00:09

save it for the workplace comrade confused

grin

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Sep 6 2007 09:42
revol68 wrote:
John. wrote:
Norn Iron is part of the UK, dumbass.

thank fuck you told me eh.

but Organise! is Organise! - Ireland, albeit we have only one or two members in Mexico.

Then surely they'd have to be the IWA section, and you'd have to join SolFed.

OliverTwister's picture
OliverTwister
Offline
Joined: 10-10-05
Sep 6 2007 16:55

Is mexico slang for 'south of the border' ireland?

Or do you actually have members in Mexico?

Deezer
Offline
Joined: 2-10-04
Sep 6 2007 17:37
guydebordisdead wrote:
1 country - 1 section would obviously have to aknowledge the natural national boundry formed by the sea. As such Organise, a non-partitionist group which in theory operates across the entire island could be a section. My argument was that they couldn't join because they are not a syndicalist group?

What the fuck is a "natural national boundry", do you believe in 'natural' nations???

What revol68 said plus we aren't looking at discussing affiliating or not to the IWA until we are a significantly larger organisation. Whether that means we function to some level in the workplace or we are still a propaganda group.

And to John., jack etc., there was an Organise!-IWA affiliate for a while and its membership base was geographically similar to Organise! today.