Wikileaks a Mossad black-op?

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Devrim's picture
Devrim
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Dec 15 2010 07:25
Wikileaks a Mossad black-op?

To start with I want to be very clear that I am not supporting the various conspiracy theories that have been circulating in the Arab world about Wikileaks, but I thought they were interesting enough to comment upon, and when an article appeared in English laying out the argument, saving me from doing any translating, I thought it worth raising.

Over the past few weeks there have been a few articles appearing in the Arabic language press suggesting that Wikileaks if not actually a creation of Mossad is acting to serve the interests of Israel. Recently one appeared in the English language version of Al-Ahram, Egypt's biggest selling daily, written by one Jeff Gates, former US counsel to the Senate Finance Committee:

Quote:
A leak on this scale is only a leak if it is a random data dump. If items were purposely included or excluded based on their intended effect, it's an intelligence operation. Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski points out how this release is "seeded" with information that is "surprisingly pointed".
...
What's included in the WikiLeaks release is pointed. What's excluded is even more so: the lack of facts chronicling the role that Israel has long played in undermining US interests.
...
To whom should this release be attributed? Who benefited?

The Arab media is, of course, constantly full of conspiracy theories about Israel and Mossad. This is one that despite all the interest in Wikileaks I haven't seen in the English language media yet though.

Devrim

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waslax
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Dec 15 2010 08:53

I'm not anywhere close to being familiar with all or even most of the Wikileaks material, but I don't see how any single country -- or rather, state -- benefits from it. My understanding is that the US is the state most damaged by it, so far, at least, so one could say that all of the US's enemies have 'benefited', but I wouldn't say that myself. The US is by far the world's biggest imperialist power, so it is obviously going to be the principle target, but I just don't see how Israel 'benefits' from any of this. I think that anyone who suggests this, including Jeff Gates, is obsessed with Israel.

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Devrim
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Dec 15 2010 09:38
waslax wrote:
I think that anyone who suggests this, including Jeff Gates, is obsessed with Israel.

Quite possibly, but then much of the Arab media is. I didn't post this link because I agreed with the piece, but merely to inform people about how it is being portrayed in other parts of the world.

At work yesterday, some people were saying that it was all a plot against Turkey. When I pointed out that the vast majority of the documents didn't concern Turkey, they explained that the rest were all there to 'cover' the plot against Turkey. I think that anyone who suggests this is obsessed with Turkey and its self-importance, but then a lot of people in Turkey are.

'The plot' is always present in the Middle East, and of course much of the time it is just conspiracy theories. Of course that isn't always the case as there is actually quite a lot of political intrigue that goes on in the region.

This piece though I just posted to show others perceptions of the whole affair.

no1
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Dec 15 2010 09:54

So is this thread about Wikileaks or is it about conspiracy theories and how they are connected to nationalism?

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jef costello
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Dec 15 2010 11:42
Devrim wrote:
Quote:
A leak on this scale is only a leak if it is a random data dump. If items were purposely included or excluded based on their intended effect, it's an intelligence operation. Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski points out how this release is "seeded" with information that is "surprisingly pointed".

All leaks have some kind of motivation, this is stupidity or trying to flesh it out to make an article without any actual info.
It sounds to me like it's trying to reassure people in the US over the leak, seem to remember another article by Brzezinski on the Russian spy scandal where he had a similar mix of conjecture designed to make the US feel less powerless (or maybe seem less powerless).

slothjabber
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Dec 15 2010 12:07

Wasn't it Brzezinski that claimed that the USSR was 'allowed' to invade Afghanistan in 1979 to be Russia's Vietnam, when the rest of the world thought that the USSR was taking advantage of the turmoil (and America's humiliation) in the region caused by the overthrow of the Shah of Iran?

Seems that he's quite the master of turning massively damaging incidents for America's foreign policy into the silver lining of secret operations.

rooieravotr
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Dec 16 2010 23:58

@Slothjabber: the idea was not to 'allow' the USSR to invade Afghanistan, but to provoke it into invading, by supporting right wing armed fundamentalist/ reactionary groups opposing an Cummunist-led, pro-USSR, government - in order to bleed the USSR dry, as part of US/ USSR competition. I think in this cade Brzezinsky spoke a partial truth; this is more or less what actually happened, to the US's benefit.
@Devrim: I saw something about it too, here: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/12/07/18665978.php One of the comments is quite an effective criticism. See http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/12/07/18665978.php?show_comments=1#18666090 There is more there. On the whole, I don't think the wikileaks-as-Israeli-black-op makes sense.

petey
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Dec 17 2010 00:38
Quote:
A leak on this scale is only a leak if it is a random data dump.

i'd disagree with that, any material that comes out this way is an exposure. that it's not a total and randomized exposure doesn't make it not an exposure. a compliant US press immediately fixed on the opinion of some gulf states politicos that the US or somebody should neutralize iran, "so see, it's not just the israelis", and that was sure to make the neocons happy. but how does an exposure of a contest of wills between the irish govt and the vatican fit into this? (to distract from the plot against turkey? cool )

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Devrim
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Dec 17 2010 00:42
petey wrote:
Quote:
A leak on this scale is only a leak if it is a random data dump.

i'd disagree with that, any material that comes out this way is an exposure.

I don't agree with this piece at all. I merely posted it to give people here an idea of what some people are saying.

petey wrote:
but how does an exposure of a contest of wills between the irish govt and the vatican fit into this? (to distract from the plot against turkey? cool )

That is pretty much what some people at my work were saying, though they didn't actually mention Ireland and the Vatican.

Devrim

ajjohnstone
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Dec 17 2010 04:57

i cannot provide the sources since its been some time but i believe an explanation was that the CIA made a screw up on their analysis of Soviet oil production. Output for the oil was dramatically falling and the CIA decided it was Russia running out of oil and therefore deduced the reason for the invasion of Afghanistan was the geo-political strategy of encircling the oil production regions to dominate and then capture the oil resources - ie the Afghan invasion was the first step in a war for oil. Thus, America intervened to thwart this Soviet expansionism.

The CIA intelligence error was that although there was indeed a decline in oil production, the reason wasn't dwindling reserves but the fact that outdated machinery and technology used by Russia had come to their use-by date and simply required replacement but the damage had been done and the intervention taken place then set off another whole new course of events. As Burns says "The best-laid plans of mice and men Often go awry"

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Dec 17 2010 08:05

There's a piece about this in today's Ha'aretz - http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/bloggers-claim-wikileaks-struck-deal-with-israel-over-diplomatic-cables-leaks-1.331030 so it's made the news over here too.

petey
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Dec 17 2010 14:27
Devrim wrote:
petey wrote:
Quote:
A leak on this scale is only a leak if it is a random data dump.

i'd disagree with that, any material that comes out this way is an exposure.

I don't agree with this piece at all. I merely posted it to give people here an idea of what some people are saying.

oh i'm not imputing that to you, i'm disagreeing with the sentiment just.