Toronto Pride Disrupted by 'Antifa'?

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potrokin
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Jul 5 2017 16:35
Toronto Pride Disrupted by 'Antifa'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4xuVxAKyd4

Is stuff like this worthwhile and will it make gains for the anarchist/Antifa movement?

I recently became aware of this on the internet and it has pissed alot of people off it seems. Now, I can understand that there are valid criticisms of pride marches etc and how they have been co-opted by capitalism but what has been claimed has happened here is that people from the middle east protesting against theocracy and religious oppression have been objected to and labelled 'racist' or enbouldening racism- which strikes me personally as counter-productive, wrong and trying to silence dissent to religious oppression- these are people presumably who have suffered state oppression from a theocracy and are trying to fight for oppressed people. They have been accused of Islamophobia.That said, I don't know much about the group of people who 'Antifa' were supposed to be objecting to or whether this is genuine Antifa doing this but it looks like how it is being presented by those who are outraged by this- many of whom will no doubt be people on the left and like-minded people.

From what I am seeing online it is now being claimed that Toronto Antifa are denying that this is them doing this and they have apparently blocked comments on their facebook page. I'm just trying to make sense of all this, perhaps others out there know more about it- but it doesn't look good so far, from where I am.

Fleur
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Jul 5 2017 16:16

afaik, (although I'm in Montreal, not Toronto) there wasn't any significant disruption at Toronto Pride this year - last year Black Lives Matter disrupted the parade. Tbh, Toronto Pride is huge and that looked like about a dozen idiots who weren't up to disrupting anything.

If Toronto Antifa says it wasn't them, then it's very likely that it wasn't them.

potrokin
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Jul 5 2017 16:59

Whoever it was, they were clearly anarchists. They may not have disrupted the whole march but it looks like they disrupted it a bit, to the degree that they got noticed accusing people protesting against religious oppression of LGBTQ people and trying to highlight that oppression- of 'enbouldening racism' and Islamophobia thus making themselves and the anti-fascist and anarchist movement look like a bunch of dickheads. Atleast, thats how it appears and is being reported.

potrokin
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Jul 5 2017 17:04

This is a kind of related story aswell http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.797857

Fleur
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Jul 5 2017 17:39

They're clearly a bunch of assholes and let's not pretend that anarchists and anarchism is immune to assholery, in fact it's a bit of a magnet for some outliers who find the concept a bit edgy. You can't take responsibility for every half-wit who calls themselves an anarchist and then does something stupid. From what I see, that video was taken by the people they were counter-protesting and has been shared on social media by like-minded liberals to do a bit of left-bashing, yada yada yada, horseshoe theory etc. They got noticed by the handful of people they were protesting from the ICHR and the only reason anyone outside that tiny group has noticed it is because people are sharing it. Tbh, I won't lose any sleep about a whiney libs online complaining about anarchists because there is a Y in the day and tomorrow it'll be something else. There's always some video of people doing stupid, pointless things.

As for it bringing the anarchist movement, such that it is, into disrepute, if anarchism had a public relations department, they really ought to be sacked, we couldn't have a worse reputation for being something we're not. The only actual way to improve people's perceptions of anarchists and anarchism is to talk to people, face to face preferably and it's a long hard slog.

*Hot tips and suggestions time: Try not to mention the A word on a first date. wink

Edit: Meanwhile, Montreal comrades have been doing this, helping asylum seekers cross the border from the US, protecting them from fash groups. This, imo, is worth sharing more than a small bunch of Torontonian assholes.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-aslyum-seekers-crossing-roxham-road-canada-day-1.4187469

radicalgraffiti
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Jul 5 2017 18:19
potrokin wrote:
This is a kind of related story aswell http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.797857

i cant read that, i don't have a subscription, i read these

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/chicago-dyke-march-jewish-pride?utm_t...

http://www.forthepeoplecollective.org/against-zionism-in-solidarity-with...

it seems there isn't a "Ban on Jewish Pride Flags" but some people with Jewish pride flags got kicked of the march for being Zionists, whether or not they where challenged over this originally because someone assumed Jewish equals Israel supporter i don't know, although if it was that would be anti-Semitic. But the claim that jewish pride flags where banned appearer to be false, and is mainly being used by right wingers to have a go at "the left"

potrokin
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Jul 5 2017 19:25

]

potrokin wrote:
This is a kind of related story aswell http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.797857

i cant read that, i don't have a subscription, i read these

Thats weird coz I don't have a subscription and am able to read it. From what I understand about the Chicago thing now- the Jewish group involved is Zionist but do believe in a two state solution. At first I didn't actually read the article and didn't realize that they were zionist but atleast they do believe in a two state solution- atleast that is what has been claimed. It initially just came across like they were kicked off the march simply for having a Star of David on their flag, thus representing the Jewish community and I think if that is the case then that is just out of order and likely anti-semitic. I think what Fleur said in her last comment is spot on about Toronto Pride.

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Khawaga
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Jul 5 2017 20:40

Those same liberals were fucking furious after BLM blocked pride last year; I wouldn't sweat it. And don't fall for the antifa-baiting/bashing that is happening now in North America; it's all an alt-right PR campaign.

potrokin
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Jul 5 2017 21:33
Khawaga wrote:
Those same liberals were fucking furious after BLM blocked pride last year; I wouldn't sweat it. And don't fall for the antifa-baiting/bashing that is happening now in North America; it's all an alt-right PR campaign.

Is Maryam Namzie a Liberal or 'Alt Right'? She has featured this on Bread and Roses TV, my understanding was that she is left-wing, and has even been described as a Libertarian Communist. Infact as far as I am aware Namazie is a member of the Iranian Workers Communist Party. I don't know if she has changed her politics but I don't think she could have changed that much. In any case, as I say, I agree with Fleur's post on this, I think she made some very good points.

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Khawaga
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Jul 5 2017 21:43

I wasn't referring to her in particular, but other people that I know in real life who have commented on both this event and last year's. More or less the same complaint, though at least the BLM really had a point. The "activist" scene in Toronto can be toxic and there are plenty of fucking idiots there with some rather reactionary views on muslims and if these "activists" consider themselves antifa.. well, they're fuckers.

petey
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Jul 5 2017 22:40
Khawaga wrote:
And don't fall for the antifa-baiting/bashing that is happening now in North America; it's all an alt-right PR campaign.

a successful one though, if judged by what I've seen.
sorry to derail.

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Khawaga
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Jul 5 2017 23:21

Yeah, sadly. Evidence: how even leftists are making the same arguments. Quite clever of them considering they want brown shirts on the streets.

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OliverTwister
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Jul 6 2017 01:40
Khawaga wrote:
Those same liberals were fucking furious after BLM blocked pride last year; I wouldn't sweat it. And don't fall for the antifa-baiting/bashing that is happening now in North America; it's all an alt-right PR campaign.

Some of it is definitely coming internally from the left.

Fleur
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Jul 6 2017 02:20

Is it just me or are things getting much more sectarian right now? I've clocked a lot more anti-anarchist vitriol from Marxists, and the other way around tbh, more than the usual anyway. Or I was wondering if it's just me developing a lower threshold for general bullshit.

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jef costello
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Jul 6 2017 06:37

I couldn't work out who was complaining about what and gave up after a minute or so. Obviously there is a huge (relatively) PR campaign against antifa and people are jumping on the bandwagon. It never fails to amaze me how people on the right who are united by by pretty much nothing apart from hating the left can unite and the left so frequently descends into this ridiculous sectarianism, I don't think there is more of it, although antifa is the buzzword wheareas a few years ago it was blac bloc and before that I forget.

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Serge Forward
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Jul 6 2017 06:39

Dunno about anti-anarchist sectarianism but, speaking as an anarchist, what stands for an anarchist movement has always (as long as I've known it) been a bit rubbish with too many ill thought out headless chicken "we must DO something" stunts. This looks no different. As for liberals and various broadly leftish types getting all outraged, well they would do that wouldn't they.

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fingers malone
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Jul 6 2017 07:10

Can anyone summarise what the argument was of the people blocking the demo?

Fleur
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Jul 6 2017 13:20

Honestly Fingers, I think your guess is probably as good as anyone else's. The group that posted up the video is a small Toronto-based organization which protests human rights abuses in the Middle East, especially Iran, but beyond that I don't know anything about them.