Osama Bin Laden Dead.

135 posts / 0 new
Last post
NoRefunds's picture
NoRefunds
Offline
Joined: 6-04-11
May 6 2011 19:56

To Red-Metta,
I meant the official story. I find your posts to be quite rational.
Love, NoRefunds

xslavearcx's picture
xslavearcx
Offline
Joined: 21-10-10
May 6 2011 20:41
Boris Badenov wrote:
My favourite bit is when they shot him in the face and dumped him in the sea, "out of respect for Islamic tradition."

wahhabis are not known for being into making shrines out of graves as well...

jef costello's picture
jef costello
Offline
Joined: 9-02-06
May 6 2011 21:09
xslavearcx wrote:
Boris Badenov wrote:
My favourite bit is when they shot him in the face and dumped him in the sea, "out of respect for Islamic tradition."

wahhabis are not known for being into making shrines out of graves as well...

No but protests at funerals are not uncommon and there aren't many countries that would have wanted to accept his body. Personally I'd have left it in Pakistan for the fireworks.

xslavearcx's picture
xslavearcx
Offline
Joined: 21-10-10
May 6 2011 21:21

agreed, nevertheless the reason given for his body being dumped into the sea was to prevent it becoming a shrine. anybody with the most basic knowledge of islamic history and knowledge of wahhabis destruction of shrines centred around shia imams, sufi saints, and even the prophets grave if the saud family hadn't intervined would know that is an entirely unsatisfactory explanation, and cause it is so shit, it does, unfortunately, lend further 'data' to back up all sorts of conspiracy theories.

NoRefunds's picture
NoRefunds
Offline
Joined: 6-04-11
May 6 2011 21:23

There are logical reasons why they would get rid of the body, and perhaps I would believe them if they had waited. The fact is, they did not, and there was no analysis done by any credible third party source, nor was anything saved or distributed which could have allowed such an analysis in the future. There was no reason to get rid of the body within a day.

Tojiah's picture
Tojiah
Offline
Joined: 2-10-06
May 6 2011 22:39

Not having a body gives them a lot of leeway in spinning the story however they want. Just like in Israel, when Muhammad a-Dura was killed in a firefight, and there was this whole issue of who exactly hit him, and the IDF demolished the whole area in front of a CBS reporter. I doubt it's because they knew the IDF bullets hit him, but the less physical evidence, the easier it is for them to spin it whichever way they want.

Anarchia's picture
Anarchia
Offline
Joined: 18-03-06
May 7 2011 00:36

Only one bin Laden defender shot at Seals

Quote:
The Americans who raided Osama bin Laden's lair met far less resistance than the Obama administration described in the aftermath.

The commandos encountered gunshots from only one man, whom they quickly killed, before sweeping the house and shooting others, who were unarmed, a senior US defence official said in the latest account.

In today's (NZ time) revised telling, the Navy Seals mounted a precision, floor-by-floor operation to find the al-Qaeda leader and his protectors - but without the prolonged and intense firefight that officials had described for several days.

NoRefunds's picture
NoRefunds
Offline
Joined: 6-04-11
May 7 2011 19:00

Apparently the pentagon just released some footage of the compound.

Thoughts?

baboon
Offline
Joined: 29-07-05
May 9 2011 12:41

Just on conspiracies generally:

I agree with Ocelot that there's a distinction to be made between covert actions and "Conspiracy Theories", but the latter idea is useful for undermining any attempt of analysis of the manoeuvres of the bourgeoisie which are generally conspiratorial.
If we agree that the bourgeoisie, because of its nature, plots and schemes and then enacts such plots and schemes in relation to covert activity undertaken by diplomacy, the secret services, the military and the "civilian" aspects of the capitalist state, then surely this "conscious" state, or the elements of it that are set up to be its consciousness, is aware of its mortal enemy?

That the ruling class is intelligent must be beyond doubt given that it is the ruling class with all its privileges and most of the rest of us live in shit. Then such a class has a memory and is aware not only of its imperialist rivals (whom it constantly plots and schemes against) but its only potential gravedigger. To this end it will set up and reinforce certain bodies, the trade union of which are one in my opinion, it will foment war and it never stops building up an arsenal of overwhelming repression against the working class.

The case of Marseille and the workers' respone after WWII is instructive: we see the whole gamut of weaponry thrown against the class: the agencies of the US state, the CIA (including psycops), trade unions (established US unions and local unions set up from nothing), the Corsican and Italian mafias, the Resistance (the main component of newly set-up CRS repressive force), elements of the Gestapo, and so on. I think that the conspiratorial nature of the ruling class is part and parcel of it and that has nothing to do with lizards running the planet (except in allegorical terms, though in my opinion that's an insult to lizards).

Tojiah's picture
Tojiah
Offline
Joined: 2-10-06
May 10 2011 17:29

If capitalism depended on the individual intelligence of its rulers then it would have been toppled by now. It survives because it can use stupidity just like it can use ingenuity. It is opportunistic, and creates many opportunities it can then further exploit. If anything it is very bad at planning, which is why it is so irrational and destructive.

Pla
Offline
Joined: 10-05-11
May 10 2011 17:46

It seems to be becoming increasingly clear that the US state didn't want Osama to face a court since (1) it would give him a platform (2) would reveal some embarassing truths about his former CIA employers (3) Obama would be in the difficult position of having to bow to the public's demand for his execution whilst in principle opposing the death penalty. It was politically expedient to put a bullet in his head and dump him in the ocean, even if it contradicts their rhetoric about 'international law' and fair trials.

Is that really suprising to anyone with even a brief familiarity with US history?

baboon
Offline
Joined: 29-07-05
May 11 2011 17:45

Capitalism doesn't depend on the individual intelligence of its rulers, if by rulers you mean its political leadership. In fact some of these rulers are deliberately selected for their stupidity - Bush Jnr. comes to mind. But it's not these "rulers" that run the world but the committees and agencies of the state. The intelligence of these shouldn't be underestimated.

Capitalism is not an irrational and destructive system because it is bad at planning but because of its inherent economic contradictions that make its continued existence more and more irrational and destructive.

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
May 11 2011 18:16

bush wasn't stupid. he wasn't the smartest president we've ever had, but he wasn't stupid. i don't know that gore or kerry was terribly much brighter, surely a bit, but any of those would have done more or less the same job keeping the government where the capitalists wanted it to be. and one of those (gore) was popularly elected, and the other might have been, so "selected for" is a strange phrase to read.

wojtek
Offline
Joined: 8-01-11
May 3 2012 15:16

A few minutes ago on BBC 24, the presenter Ben Brown who was responsible for this hilariously biased interview described the extrajudicial killing of Osama Bin Laden as "one of the greatest triumphs" of Obama's presidency.