Nazis in CGT-E

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rata
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Aug 10 2010 13:19
Nazis in CGT-E

Continuation of reformist decadence...

http://www.publico.es/espana/331567/neonazis/infiltran/cgt/tratar/captar/obreros (Spanish)

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georgestapleton
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Aug 10 2010 13:39

Another headline for this post would be Nazi's expelled from CGT-E. Or Nazi's infiltrate and get expelled from CGT-E. Of course its not the first time a spanish anarcho-syndicalist group has been infiltrated: http://libcom.org/files/Scala.pdf

I'm not comitted to either side of the CGT/CNT split, but calling one side Nazi's I think is going a bit far.

rata
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Aug 10 2010 14:08
georgestapleton wrote:
Another headline for this post would be Nazi's expelled from CGT-E. Or Nazi's infiltrate and get expelled from CGT-E.

Hm...

Publico wrote:
Algunos miembros del sindicato ya denunciaron en marzo pasado los hechos a varios miembros de la sección sindical de CGT en Tecnocom, pero la respuesta que recibieron por correo electrónico fue la siguiente: "Desde que le conocemos, el comportamiento de Juan Antonio, cuando formaba parte de CCOO y ahora que ha pasado a nuestras filas, siempre ha sido el mismo: coherencia en la defensa de los derechos de los compañeros y siempre intentando implicar a los mismos en su defensa. Es más, siempre ha trabajado por encima de la media del resto de representantes".

Los afiliados advirtieron también que al menos otros tres sindicalistas eran asimismo neonazis, pero CGT no emprendió durante meses ninguna acción contra ellos.

...

georgestapleton wrote:
Of course its not the first time a spanish anarcho-syndicalist group has been infiltrated: http://libcom.org/files/Scala.pdf

Yes, but, apart from the fact that CGT is not anarcho-syndicalist, it's a first time that when organization is aware of this it defends the Nazi and than didn't do anything about it, and other Nazis in the organization, for months until mainstream media got involved.

georgestapleton wrote:
I'm not comitted to either side of the CGT/CNT split,

This means you are pro-CGT

georgestapleton wrote:
but calling one side Nazi's I think is going a bit far.

I didn't call them Nazi in this thread, I just noted the fact that there are Nazis in CGT.

akai
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Aug 10 2010 15:14

From our local perspective, what is worse is cooperating with the right or third positionists, denying their politics, having them run your election campaign while you run for parliament - and NOT getting kicked out of a self-professed "anarchosyndicalist' group. But that's only my "ultra-sectarian" position. smile

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Joseph Kay
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Aug 10 2010 15:16

rough translation:

Publico wrote:
Some members of the union had in March already denounced the doings of various members of the CGT branch at Tecnocom, but the answer that they received by email was the following: "From what we know of it, the behaviour of Juan Antonio when part of the CCOO and now that he has joined our ranks has always been the same: consistent defence of the rights of our colleagues and similarly always trying to involve himself in their defence. And furthermore, he has always worked more than average than the rest of the representatives."

Members also warned that at least 3 other union members were neonazis, but the CGT didn't take any action for months against them.

Disclaimer: my spanish is shit

revolut
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Aug 10 2010 16:16

The CGT's press release which is mentioned in the article (in Spanish):

http://www.alasbarricadas.org/noticias/?q=node/14793

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Rob Ray
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Aug 10 2010 16:44

Machine translation:

Members of neo-Nazi groups have joined left-wing unions to get workers to reach and, in times of economic crisis, instilling his speech against immigration and they are foreigners who take away jobs from nationals. This message is also present in its calls for demonstrations and slogans, with constant allusions to the labor movement, seeking to make his own.

For example, the leftist union General Labour Confederation (CGT) has hosted its own ranks to members of the extreme right, including Juan Antonio Aguilar is, ultra outstanding leader who, before joining the CGT, was CCOO member.

The Departed can access information of future victims

Aguilar has been president for more than a year of Works of Tecnocom computer company in Madrid. Recently went to testify at the trial that convicted neo-Nazi network Blood and Honour, and was secretary general of the Republican Social Movement (SRM) and far-right party which promotes xenophobia. Why would be a far-right in a left-wing union? "To manage information of their victims, have power and access to workers who think they can convince their racist arguments and pro-Spanish," says CGT members who prefer to remain anonymous.

Some union members complained last March and the facts to several members of the CGT trade union section in Tecnocom, but the response we received by email was: "Since we know the behavior of Juan Antonio, when he was part CCOO and now that has come to our ranks, has always been the same: consistency in defending the rights of colleagues and always trying to involve themselves in its defense. Moreover, it has always worked above the average other representatives. "

Members also cautioned that at least three other trade unionists were also neo-Nazis, but for months CGT did not take any action against them.

The ultras intend with the crisis, spread their racist

However, it was not until yesterday when, following a call received by this newspaper, the union has sent a memo to its members in ensuring that "detected the presence of neo-Nazi ideology persons to membership in a digital section CGT, the organization has implemented its statutory procedures and have ceased to belong to the union so explosive. "
"Such people"

The statement said that if it becomes to detect infiltration in their ranks "of this type of people," will be launched the same procedures and produce new expulsions. "Anarcho-syndicalist CGT as an organization maintains an ongoing commitment to fight against fascism, Nazism, xenophobia, racism and all forms of totalitarian ideologies," says the note.

The case of Juan Antonio Aguilar was easy to detect because its name within the social movements is well known. "In it there is enough information on the Internet. But surely there are many other neo-Nazi infiltrators, perhaps less known, and we can not control," said several union members affected.

Another neo-Nazi who has belonged to Juan Antonio Llopart CGT, the secretary of the Revolutionary Social Movement and is not embarrassed to tell it in your own blog. In a section called "I stand ...", Llopart himself writes:" I worked as an administrative, commercial, store manager and even got to create a wholesaler of CD. I was affiliated with TNF (National Labour Force, union New Force) and the CGT-metal. " Llopart was convicted in 2009 for praising Nazi genocide and distributing books on Adolf Hitler. "

Neo-Nazis have not only contacted CGT. In 2009, members of the Republican Social Movement were invited by members of CCOO to participate in a protest by employees of the security company Prosegur.

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Aug 10 2010 18:03
revolut wrote:
The CGT's press release which is mentioned in the article (in Spanish):

http://www.alasbarricadas.org/noticias/?q=node/14793

Machine Translation:

Quote:
CGT has detected the presence of several people from neo-fascist ideology to membership in a trade union branch of the union. The Organization has launched its statutory procedures and have ceased to belong to the union. These statutory procedures are active and open for further research and can be applied at any time and place to re-detect the infiltration of such people, because, CGT maintains an attitude of total intransigence, zero tolerance to this type situations.

Anarcho-syndicalist CGT as an organization maintains an ongoing commitment to fight against fascism, xenophobia, racism and all forms of totalitarian ideologies as our goals, our means and our ends are achieving improved employment and social rights of all workers and workers and the construction of a libertarian society that is based on freedom, equality, social justice and self-management.

CGT is already being an organization with sufficient presence in the association, and the world of social organizations, to become the object of desire of other organizations and personasindeseables who infiltrate our ranks to use their structure, their resources, its ability to mobilize posts in management bodies to enable them to disclose or work for their partisan interests, neo-fascism, private, ... but all non-CGT.

We are fully aware that there are many vested interests that CGT does not progress and grow their assembly-union model does not admit that CGT organize autonomously to the workers and that they properly address their power to achieve their goals as a class.

In the coming weeks, CGT will develop the call for the strike Generaldel September 29 and will be an important reference and social trade union movement and militant anti-capitalist, all the result of continuous work for consistency and to exercise trade union model to serve the working class.

Permanent Secretary of the CGT Confederal Committee

syndicalist
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Aug 10 2010 19:47
georgestapleton wrote:
revolut wrote:
The CGT's press release which is mentioned in the article (in Spanish):

http://www.alasbarricadas.org/noticias/?q=node/14793

Machine Translation:

Quote:
CGT has detected the presence of several people from neo-fascist ideology to membership in a trade union branch of the union. The Organization has launched its statutory procedures and have ceased to belong to the union. These statutory procedures are active and open for further research and can be applied at any time and place to re-detect the infiltration of such people, because, CGT maintains an attitude of total intransigence, zero tolerance to this type situations.

Anarcho-syndicalist CGT as an organization maintains an ongoing commitment to fight against fascism, xenophobia, racism and all forms of totalitarian ideologies as our goals, our means and our ends are achieving improved employment and social rights of all workers and workers and the construction of a libertarian society that is based on freedom, equality, social justice and self-management.

CGT is already being an organization with sufficient presence in the association, and the world of social organizations, to become the object of desire of other organizations and personasindeseables who infiltrate our ranks to use their structure, their resources, its ability to mobilize posts in management bodies to enable them to disclose or work for their partisan interests, neo-fascism, private, ... but all non-CGT.

We are fully aware that there are many vested interests that CGT does not progress and grow their assembly-union model does not admit that CGT organize autonomously to the workers and that they properly address their power to achieve their goals as a class.

In the coming weeks, CGT will develop the call for the strike Generaldel September 29 and will be an important reference and social trade union movement and militant anti-capitalist, all the result of continuous work for consistency and to exercise trade union model to serve the working class.

Permanent Secretary of the CGT Confederal Committee

My own feelings for the CNT-AIT, which goes back to supporting them while still underground not-with-standing, you know, the shit-stirring for no reason is just plain dumb. Before stirring, why not do the proper homework....I mean, we'd hate to see it happen to IWA unions and political groups right?

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Libertaria
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Aug 10 2010 20:09

The IWW BiROC Secretary once told me that "when organizing a union", you have to organize racists, rednecks, you have to "organize them all".

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888
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Aug 10 2010 20:15
rata wrote:
georgestapleton wrote:
I'm not comitted to either side of the CGT/CNT split,

This means you are pro-CGT

I laughed out loud at this. A tiny bit more objectivity might help! I'm pro CNT, but in a somewhat rational way.

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888
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Aug 10 2010 20:19
Quote:
The IWW BiROC Secretary once told me that "when organizing a union", you have to organize racists, rednecks, you have to "organize them all".

Er well in a certain sense that's true, but not politically active ideological racists!

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Aug 10 2010 20:22
Libertaria wrote:
The IWW BiROC Secretary once told me that "when organizing a union", you have to organize racists, rednecks, you have to "organize them all".

This may well be true because were trying to swim against the tide and for class interests to become the gravitas to define all our social relations and ideed political change. But having organised racists, better yet fascists, join your organisation, when their aims are a counter to pretty much everything your fighting for is the other side of the river entirely.

Edit to add. That said I do think there is some unnecessary point scoring going on in this thread.

rata
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Aug 10 2010 20:18
syndicalist wrote:
Before stirring, why not do the proper homework....I mean, we'd hate to see it happen to IWA unions and political groups right?

That's not the point, it can happen to everyone. The point is that CGT is not capable of dealing with this sorts of things by itself, which is what self-management means, and, just like in case of the cops they unionised, it is forced to act against it when it becomes public and very obviously shaming for anybody claiming to be left wing. Despite this, they continue to falsely present themselves as anarcho-syndicalists, while trying to steal the tradition and property of the CNT and IWA.

rata
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Aug 10 2010 20:26
revol68 wrote:
no, playing neutral in regards to the CNT-CGT issue means you think there is little difference between sitting in works councils, union elections and taking state money and not doing so.

CGT got 215.942,05 € from Spanish state last year.

http://madrid.cnt.es/noticia.php?id=349

syndicalist
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Aug 10 2010 20:28
rata wrote:
syndicalist wrote:
Before stirring, why not do the proper homework....I mean, we'd hate to see it happen to IWA unions and political groups right?

That's not the point, it can happen to everyone. The point is that CGT is not capable of dealing with this sorts of things by itself, which is what self-management means, and, just like in case of the cops they unionised, it is forced to act against it when it becomes public and very obviously shaming for anybody claiming to be left wing. Despite this, they continue to falsely present themselves as anarcho-syndicalists, while trying to steal the tradition and property of the CNT and IWA.

Someone mentioned the La Scala case. I remember it well. The CNT-AIT was inflitrated.
I remember what it did to the CNT-AIT as a popular and mass union.

Rata, you're just shit stirring and your follow-up email (quoted above) just proves that point.

I've said more than I wish on this.

rata
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Aug 10 2010 20:33
syndicalist wrote:
Rata, you're just shit stirring and your follow-up email (quoted above) just proves that point.

Yes, it's really sad that we all just can't get along... and pretend we don't know the things we know. cry

vanilla.ice.baby
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Aug 10 2010 20:36
rata wrote:
revol68 wrote:
no, playing neutral in regards to the CNT-CGT issue means you think there is little difference between sitting in works councils, union elections and taking state money and not doing so.

CGT got 215.942,05 € from Spanish state last year.

http://madrid.cnt.es/noticia.php?id=349

Good for them.

syndicalist
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Aug 10 2010 20:39

I'm just saying that an accusation is made that the CGT had nazi members. The CGT statement says they are dealing with it. Then all the other stuff about the CGT is thrown in, that all my point is.

As for standing in principled defense of the CNT-AIT, well, I've been doing that well before many of you were born or came on the scene. So, yes, "fuck off syndicalist"!

rata
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Aug 10 2010 20:46
syndicalist wrote:
I'm just saying that an accusation is made that the CGT had nazi members. The CGT statement says they are dealing with it.

In fact CGT statement is saying that they are dealing with it AFTER they were called by the mainstream newspaper which informed them that they are going to run an article about Nazi leaders in their union. Before that, even if their own members warned about this, FOR MONTHS, CGT didn't do anything.

syndicalist wrote:
As for standing in principled defence of the CNT-AIT, well, I've been doing that well before many of you were born or came on the scene. So, yes, "fuck off syndicalist"!

It seams that the problem with you syndicalist is that you take a very ahistorical approach to politics, thus thinking that something somebody did 20 or 30 years ago is only thing that counts today, regardless of present politics. That, simply, is not true.

syndicalist
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Aug 10 2010 20:53

Revol68, weren't you banned from here before? So pleasant to read you cursing me out again.

My personal view is simple: I believe you can have real and principled differences with others and have the ability to express them in an open and comradely way. I don't believe in the "no contact" policy. But I don't go out of my way to have contact either.

Though, I must laugh, I remember how some in the WSA used to trash me for being the IWA hardliner when it came to some of this stuff. My views have never changed.

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Joseph Kay
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Aug 10 2010 21:01

revol, this is a no-flaming forum. you can criticise the CGT all you like without the unreasonable personal abuse.

syndicalist
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Aug 10 2010 21:04
rata wrote:
....It seams that the problem with you syndicalist is that you take a very ahistorical approach to politics, thus thinking that something somebody did 20 or 30 years ago is only thing that counts today, regardless of present politics. That, simply, is not true.

I've no clue what you are saying.

Perhaps because I have been around for those 20, 30 years I have participated or have seen some of the events unfold, knew some of the players and have been inside on some of the action over that time to give me some sort of sense of things.

Look, I'm mature enough to know that there are principled and strong differences. I know some feel the need to argue and have discussions on this stuff. It doesn't mean I have to join in, it doesn't mean my principles are any less than yours and it doesn't mean because I am not in the IWA that I can not be a principled anarcho-syndicalist.

akai
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Aug 10 2010 21:08

I am just curious Rata if you have any concrete information about how they were infiltrated and did nothing about it. Are there any public criticisms for example? I'd be interested in that.

I think the real questions here are first - who is THEY? (As in THEY didn't do anything about it?) Is they some sort of leadership, or the general membership? Also, it there were people saying this and nothing was done, this is a big difference between just being infiltrated. Being infiltrated really implies you had no idea. This, I agree, could happen to anybody. Being scummy is when part of your membership says this and you find reasons to ignore it.

Well, not to go off-topic too much, but there was this problem here with the pro-CGT group and it is quite amazing what sort of denial people can go through. So although I don't know all the details in this CGT case and don't want to make a hasty judgment, it it is true, I really can imagine some of the bullshit lines they had for the critics.

syndicalist
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Aug 10 2010 21:12
revol68 wrote:
okay fair enough, probably no need for the use of fuck in reference to syndicalist, he's alright apart from some odd desire to temper criticisms of the CGT.

Revol68, all I'm saying is tying the neo-nazi thing into an overall IWA standard criticism of the CGT in one breath is, well, silly. A least have a seperate thread or whatever for that is all I'm saying.

On the point of inflitartion by neo-nazis into even the reformist syndicalist unions should, I would think, be cause for concern. Whether we agree or not with the SAC, 10 years ago one of their members (Jan Soderberg...sorry for the spelling) stood up and was killed because he opposed neo-nazi inflitration in his workplace. Do we not be concerned even if he belonged to the SAC?

revolut
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Aug 10 2010 21:43

An article written by two members of CGT. They deny some statement made by Publico: they said that the known nazis were expelled as soon as possible, and that the investigation opened by the CGT it was to investigate if there's more fascists in other unions of the organization, between other things.

http://www.kaosenlared.net/noticia/cgt-antifascista-y-antiracista

vanilla.ice.baby
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Aug 10 2010 21:43
syndicalist wrote:
it doesn't mean because I am not in the IWA that I can not be a principled anarcho-syndicalist.

Unfortunately many in the IWA would disagree with you, especially in Spain and Serbia!

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Joseph Kay
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Aug 10 2010 21:45

i think the issue is that (according to my Spanish anyway) the CGT were warned by their members that nazis had infiltrated them, and they ignored this, fobbing off the complaining members with some banalities about the nazis being good hard-working reps who only care about standing up for their fellow workers.

now i don't know about the internal structure of the CGT, but that already doesn't sound very anarcho-syndicalist. in the CNT as i understand it you belong to a local union who can expel you via a general meeting. if the local doesn't take action, the national federation can threaten to dissaffiliate the local (but not as i understand it expel individuals, as the CNT is a federation of unions not individuals). there'd be nobody fob you off with apologia since you could just put it on the agenda, make the case and push for a vote in your local.

does anyone know the CGT-E's internal structure? who were they emailing, a full-time official? Why did that person have the power to fob them off?

vanilla.ice.baby
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Aug 10 2010 21:46
revolut wrote:
An article written by two members of CGT. They deny some statement made by Publico: they said that the known nazis were expelled as soon as possible, and that the investigation opened by the CGT it was to investigate if there's more fascists in other unions of the organization, between other things.

http://www.kaosenlared.net/noticia/cgt-antifascista-y-antiracista

No! To prove our purity we must side with the capitalist press against militant leftwing unions that left our tendency X years ago!

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Joseph Kay
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Aug 10 2010 21:47
revolut wrote:
An article written by two members of CGT. They deny some statement made by Publico: they said that the known nazis were expelled as soon as possible, and that the investigation opened by the CGT it was to investigate if there's more fascists in other unions of the organization, between other things.

http://www.kaosenlared.net/noticia/cgt-antifascista-y-antiracista

ah well if that's true, then disregard my above comment. i mean they would deny it if the Publico piece was true, so i don't know.

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Aug 10 2010 23:27

Maybe it's true or maybe it's not, but foaming at the mouth doesn't make your point more convincing, (some of you) IWAers. You're acting like Sparticists.