Migrants & sexual violence

101 posts / 0 new
Last post
kingzog
Offline
Joined: 28-10-09
May 1 2016 06:52

Here is an excerpt from that article:

"Left: At least 30 male migrants assaulted three girls (aged 15, 16 and 17) at the Sophienhof mall in Kiel, Germany, on February 25. Only two of the men were arrested by police. Right: In the first two months of this year alone, there have been dozens of reported cases of migrants sexually assaulting women and children at public swimming pools across Germany. In some areas, authorities have distributed cartoon guides, to "educate" migrants that sexual assault is not acceptable"

If it wasn't an issue, why would they be making these "guides"?

Here is some more, allof these are linked to primary sources":

January 19. A 17-year-old Eritrean migrant attempted to rape an 18-year-old woman in a parking garage in Bad Oldesloe. After police intervened, the man head-butted an officer, who was hospitalized.

January 20. Migrants invaded female showers and changing rooms at two public swimming pools in Leipzig.

January 21. A "black skinned" (schwarz glänzende Hautfarbe) man attempted to rape a 13-year-old girl in Langenfeld. Two migrants assaulted an 18-year-old woman in Dingolfing.

January 22. A migrant (südländisches Äußeres) attempted to rape a 16-year-old girl in Feuerbach district of Stuttgart, and in downtown Stuttgart, four "Arabic looking" (arabisches Aussehen) men sexually assaulted a 23-year-old woman. Migrants harassed women at public swimming pools in Zwickau.

January 23. Migrants sexually assaulted two 11-year-old girls at a public swimming pool in Wilhelmshaven. Two asylum seekers from Afghanistan assaulted two 17-year-old women at a public swimming pool in Straubing. Three 16-year-old migrants from Afghanistan and Syria assaulted two 13-year-old girls at a public swimming pool in Hachenburg.

Also on January 23, a 35-year-old migrant sexually assaulted a woman in a restroom on a train in Düsseldorf. A 22-year-old Syrian migrant exposed himself on a train in Hanover. An 18-year-old Syrian asylum seeker raped a 17-year-old woman in Straubing. Two unidentified men sexually assaulted an 18-year-old woman in Wiesbaden.

You have to Google translate the primary sources, but they are legit

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7557/germany-rape-migrants-crisis

I don't want to get morally indigent, but shame on you guys for turning a blind eye; you're better than this comrades. Don't let political correctness(and dogmatism, quite frankly) destroy your reason and common sense. Entertain, for one minute, that this may indeed be a problem, that this crisis is real and that the well being of these women and girls does matter just as much as any of the migrants, as much as any other human being- imagine if you indeed were a parent of one of these girls! Don't dismiss this shit out of hand based on your own prejudices- and don't deny that the left doesn't have its own unique prejudices, they do.

gram negative's picture
gram negative
Offline
Joined: 24-11-09
May 1 2016 11:29

you don't realize what issue is, do you? it's not that we are dogmatists, it is that you want to engage in collective punishment. for some reason all migrants are guilty of the actions of individuals, yet that same logic is not applied to sexual assaults carried out by americans or germans or whichever european national. so, migrants as a whole must then be treated differently as a set - how is that libertarian? also, you do realize that if a migrant was originally from syria, that sending them back is way worse of a punishment than any european would get?

"arab-looking"? really? you do know that you can be "arab-looking" and be german, right?

instead of focusing on the "migrant" aspect (beisdes the fact that most migrants are women and children) why not focus on the patriarchy aspect? why is the call for collective punishment, rather than measures to deal with patriarchy and sexual assault?

wojtek
Offline
Joined: 8-01-11
May 1 2016 11:25

What about migrant women and children? Or those back in the perpetators' home countries?
The template nationalist solution is not holistic and is inadequate.

There's are threads on here about berlin, rotherham.

gram negative's picture
gram negative
Offline
Joined: 24-11-09
May 1 2016 11:28

regarding the first story you quote above: http://m.dw.com/en/the-sophienhof-case-in-kiel-a-chronology-of-a-hysteri...

before you say i condone what did happen, or i am victim blaming - i am not. the photography and filming of women without consent is wrong. however, only 2 men were involved, and nothing physical happened, which is much different than the source you quote. what you have here is an example of right wing media jumping on a story and then twisting it to suit their ends.

Tyrion's picture
Tyrion
Offline
Joined: 12-04-13
May 1 2016 19:30

Why is kingzog's racist shit being allowed a platform here? It's remarkable how little interest they have in sexual assault when it's committed by white Germans and in formulating some sort of collective response to dealing with "the white German community" that one would think is implicated in such assaults if kingzog's logic were to hold. Really vile stuff--would this even be getting serious treatment if a poster posted a bunch of articles about sexual assaults committed by Jews and used this to make a case about the serious Jewish problem being ignored by those PC types?

Kingzog appears to be following in the proud legacy of feminism being aped for racist purposes, a practice with a strong historical resonance in my own country where talk of protecting white women from the supposed sexually violent predilections of black men toward them was used to spur on countless lynch mobs.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
May 1 2016 15:29

Yup, Kingzog should really just leave this site in shame. Fucking racist.

Fleur
Offline
Joined: 21-02-12
May 1 2016 17:48
Quote:
Kingzog appears to be following in the proud legacy of feminism being aped for racist purposes, a practice with a strong historical resonance in my own county where talk of protecting white women from the supposed sexually violent predilections of black men toward them was used to spur on countless lynch mobs.

Yeah, Kingzog should just stop using sexual assault to advance his ignorant racist agenda. It's just fucking offensive.

Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
Offline
Joined: 29-04-08
May 1 2016 21:04

kingzog has been banned for doubling down on anti-immigrant positions.

I let this go on for a bit, because for one, I know this person, or more accurately, I have met them and know of them.

Second, the stuff that kingzog was saying is really common, and I believe that this website is a platform for refuting such garbage, especially, and most importantly, when it is something that so pervades society. I haven't seen much from the far left on the European migrant crisis and the issues that have arisen from it. Hopefully, someone searching the topic on the internet might find this thread, and have their thoughts challenged and changed on this issue.

Sike's picture
Sike
Offline
Joined: 25-10-15
May 2 2016 04:25

Just want to mention that the Crimethinc website has an excellent article posted a few months back addressing this very topic in a way that neither ignores nor minimizes sexual violence, nor plays into the racist themes typically used by nationalists and capitalists to demonize refugees and their supporters on the left.

Europe: Between Rape and Racism

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
May 3 2016 11:11

Just got round to reading this thread now, absolutely unbelievable. So turns out King Zog is actually just a racist piece of shit. Not only that, but is actually an idiot as well.

He doesn't seem to understand that cherry picking a few individual news articles doesn't constitute data about which you can make generalisations about huge chunks of the world's population.

What makes it worse is that he is trying to make the argument that migrants disproportionately commit sexual assault, but actually hasn't managed to find a shred of evidence supporting that. And worse, a bunch of the articles he has posted don't even have anything to do with that: like that one about an innocent Gambian student who was murdered by a white Italian gangster. Or the Rotherham sexual abuse cases, which weren't carried out by "migrants", but were carried out by a group of British Asians with the collaboration of the mostly white police and social services.

And as for the "Rape in Sweden" Wikipedia entry (great source BTW, almost as good as the Mail), it also doesn't have any evidence supporting his claim, as it doesn't say how many rapes were carried out by migrants. It does have a bit of info about convictions and charges for rape, however as there were only 190 convictions out of 6700 rapes, this data is pretty meaningless. And also of course an immigrant raping a stranger is much easier to convict than a native raping someone they know (which are the vast majority of sexual assaults), so of course would be more likely to be convicted - also they may be more likely to be charged or convicted due to race discrimination (see for example historical rape cases in the American deep South). That's not to mention the fact that 80% go unreported in Sweden, and in that sort of case reporting may also be more likely as the survivor may feel more likely to be believed (which is of course a key factor in whether assaults are reported).

I hope it's obvious to anyone who isn't a Daily Mail reader or Trump supporter, but I could Google for 5 min and find far more examples of sexual assault by white non-migrants. Hell, just one link about Jimmy Savile would count for more actual assaults than pretty much every other link King Zog managed to find, as he abused so many women and girls. UK posters will also probably remember the case of John Worboys, the black cab driver who raped up to 100 or more women: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10667340/100-victims-could-... (and before King Zog starts getting excited: in the UK black cabs means official taxis. He is white). And that's not to mention the thousands of people abused by white catholic priests…

Finally, I think it should be a new rule on the internet, like Godwins law, that if anyone mentions "no-go zones" it means they have lost the argument and have no idea what they are talking about (I say that as a Londoner living in the centre of one of our so-called "no-go zones" according to Fox News, the Daily Mail and Anders Brevik, who also lives within 500 meters of four strip clubs, two gay bars, about 30 pubs and bars, at least one synagogue…)

Ahmet Muhtar
Offline
Joined: 1-06-16
Jun 1 2016 18:32

There is nothing racist about the truth. It is what it is. I provided loads of examples of sexual violence by migrants and other Muslims. You can ignore it and claim it's "cherry picking" all you want, but the examples are legion- and growing every day it seems.

The Rotherham scandal was relevant, btw, because the perpetrators were Pakistani, not "British Asians," and the police and Council Estate people's involvement was that they covered it up because they were afraid of being accused of racism for exposing it. It's the exact same mentality here on Libcom; a mentality that puts people in danger by suppressing the truth out of cowardice and ideological dogmatism. It's unfortunate, but these people come from societies steeped in rape culture. we shouldn't excuse them simply because of their national origin, there is simply no excuse for what these people call "Taharroush"

(http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2374/german-police-it-...)

Look here, yet another mass sexual assault incident(Taharroush) in Germany. 26 women attacked. the perpetrators,the ones arrested so far, are of Pakistani origin. It is racist to say that this is a serious problem? Is it racist to be vehemently against rape and rape culture? Isn't "the left" supposed to be on the front line against misogyny and oppression of women? Or are we only against it when it suits us? Grow up people.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/europe/germany-concert-sex-assaults/

gram negative's picture
gram negative
Offline
Joined: 24-11-09
Jun 1 2016 18:57

sexual assaults at concerts has been an issue for a long time: http://www.mtv.com/news/516319/two-woodstock-fans-allegedly-raped-in-mos...

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/07/30/3465695/a-girl-was-sexual-ass...

and there are countless more examples., which has nothing to do with the migration status of the perpetrator so, yes, it is racist to insist that these assaults are happening because of an influx of migrants, rather than the issue being patriarchical behavior in general

Reddebrek's picture
Reddebrek
Offline
Joined: 4-01-12
Jun 1 2016 19:55
Ahmet Muhtar wrote:
There is nothing racist about the truth. It is what it is. I provided loads of examples of sexual violence by migrants and other Muslims. You can ignore it and claim it's "cherry picking" all you want, but the examples are legion- and growing every day it seems.

The Rotherham scandal was relevant, btw, because the perpetrators were Pakistani, not "British Asians," and the police and Council Estate people's involvement was that they covered it up because they were afraid of being accused of racism for exposing it.

According to the victims that's not actually true, they say the police ignored their compliants because they were in on it.

Look even the Daily Mail's reporting it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3463517/Police-took-Rotherham-ch...

Quote:
Some are even claimed to have been part of the paedophile sex ring.

Victims say at least one constable molested girls. Others are said to have tipped off the grooming gang's gun-toting ringmasters as to when their South Yorkshire colleagues were closing in.

Oh and many of the victims were "cared for" by the Macgregor's who actively worked with the sex ring.

Quote:
The men were given access to their victims by trusted local foster carer Karen MacGregor, 58, and Shelley Davies, 40.

MacGregor took in girls - all of whom were white - from children's homes in the area, offering them a safe and comfortable living environment in her 'Hansel and Gretal house'.

But once they were in she pimped them out as prostitutes, making them 'earn their keep' by having sex with a succession of men who were often double their age.

The women, along with the brothers' uncle, Qurban Ali, 53, were all found guilty of child sex offences. They will be sentenced at Sheffield Crown Court tomorrow.


Yeah its funny how most people reposting links to Rotherham leave out the allegations against the police from the victims and that two of the convicted were white females.

So what we have in Rotherham is an ethnic and gender mixed web of predators exploiting vulnerable young girls for profit, with connections to several Coppers. Yeah I'm sure its all PC gone mad.

Your racist narrative is wrong and if you had a shred of decency you would stop misrepresenting it to score points on the internet.

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Jun 1 2016 21:00
Ahmet Muhtar wrote:
The Rotherham scandal was relevant, btw, because the perpetrators were Pakistani, not "British Asians,"

Afaics the convicted were all British citizens, although there's been talk of stripping them of citizenship and deporting them to Pakistan. Two white British women were also convicted (but I guess that doesn't fit the 'Muslims coming over here and raping our women' meme).

Ahmet Muhtar wrote:
...and the police and Council Estate people's involvement was that they covered it up because they were afraid of being accused of racism for exposing it.

This is also false. According to the Rotherham Inquiry:

Rotherham Inquiry wrote:
Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.

That is, they were reluctant to talk about "Asian rapists" as opposed to "rapists". One example the report cites (p.92) is that staff were trained not to refer to ethnic identities of perpetrators. This is good practice, and fairly standard across the public sector afaik, and has nothing to do with cover-ups.

On the claim that the police didn't investigate because they feared being called racists:

Rotherham Inquiry wrote:
[Dr Heal] also reported in 2006 that young people in Rotherham believed at that time that the Police dared not act against Asian youths for fear of allegations of racism. This perception was echoed at the present time by some young people we met during the Inquiry, but was not supported by specific examples.

I.e. this was an explanation offered by "young people in Rotherham" to explain the police's lack of interest, but the inquiry couldn't find any examples of this happening. The findings about this (p.91) are interesting - the over-reliance on (patriarchal) 'community leaders' seems to have disenfranchised Asian women, for instance. However, it "found no evidence of children’s social care staff being influenced by concerns about the ethnic origins of suspected perpetrators when dealing with individual child protection cases, including CSE."

Aside from it being highly unlikely that the institutionally racist British police refuse to arrest ethnic minorities (e.g. see: incarceration stats), information came out during the trial that South Yorkshire Police officers were passing information and drugs to the gang, and that an officer had taken part in abuse. This corrupt relationship with drug-dealing, abusive gangsters seems a more likely motive for cover-up (it's currently under IPCC investigation).

And bear in mind this is the same South Yorks police responsible for Hillsborough and Orgreave, which they've continued to cover up (e.g. hiring a spin doctor to discredit Liverpool fans during the Hillsborough inquests). It's a force with some of the most egregious and well-documented corruption, cover-ups and collusions in all sorts of shit.

Ahmet Muhtar wrote:
It's unfortunate, but these people come from societies steeped in rape culture. we shouldn't excuse them simply because of their national origin

In this case, Britain. And literally nobody is excusing it.

Ahmet Muhtar wrote:
(http://speisa BROKEN .com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2374/german-police-it-s-an-arab-rape-game-called-taharrush-and-now-it-has-come-to-europe.html)

Pakistanis aren't Arabs, but they all look the same amirite?

Incidentally, I hadn't heard of this source so I googled it, and it's a newish site that's been accused of running fake stories as clickbait - albeit by bloggers. Edit: The phenomenon seems to be Egyptian, fwiw.

And to reiterate, feminists are organising against sexual violence regardless of who the perpetrators are (e.g. Aus Nahmslos in Germany, Sisters Uncut defending for specialist DV services in UK...), but as usual their voices are being ignored so that abuse canbe instrumentalised to serve other agendas, like this fash clash of civilisations shit.

radicalgraffiti
Offline
Joined: 4-11-07
Jun 1 2016 21:47

funny how some people will go on endlessly about cases of sexual assaults/rapes by brown men, and claim this is a reason to restrict immigrants, but say nothing about men who actual travel to other countries to abuse children

eg
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/01/richard-huckle-kent-photographer...

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/texas-christian-missionary-pleads-guilty...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/may-web-only/missionary-donn-ke...

and theres so many case of white men grooming children in the uk i had to give up finding cases i remember that are like Rotherham but the perpetrates where white

Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
Offline
Joined: 29-04-08
Jun 1 2016 21:55

Ahmet Muhtar a.k.a. kingzog has been banned. We usually do not allow banned users to come back with new usernames unless there is some sort of apology and/or retraction of the posts or behavior that got them banned in the first place.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
Jun 1 2016 22:00

I suspected that it was kingzog coming back with this nonsense. Interesting that he chose that user name...

Ed's picture
Ed
Offline
Joined: 1-10-03
Jun 2 2016 07:02

Obv glad he's been banned but am actually quite glad he came back briefly as I think Reddebrek's and Joseph Kay's last two comments have been particularly insightful in terms of laying out just how stupid those opinions..

radicalgraffiti wrote:
funny how some people will go on endlessly about cases of sexual assaults/rapes by brown men, and claim this is a reason to restrict immigrants, but say nothing about men who actual travel to other countries to abuse children

Yeah, or all the frat house rapes on American uni campuses.. or the Steubenville High School rape case, which basically involved a whole school covering up a (filmed and shared on social media) gang rape for the benefit of their football team.. but obviously no one says 'lets ban American students from the UK'..

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Jun 7 2016 08:28

Yeah, King Zog/Ahmet Muhtar's views are abhorrent, but I'm also glad he came back because of the excellent responses above.

Also it is funny to see how he continues to show himself as an absolute idiot. Apart from still thinking that anecdotes equal evidence, this is quality:

Ahmet Muhtar wrote:

The Rotherham scandal was relevant, btw, because the perpetrators were Pakistani, not "British Asians,"

In UK British Asians get referred to as Pakistani, Bengali, Indian etc based on their family descent, not their nationality. Being that ignorant is like an English person thinking "African-American" means someone with dual American and African citizenship.

But then I guess thinking that Pakistanis are Arabs is pretty damn ignorant as well.

Quote:
and the police and Council Estate people's involvement was that they covered it up because they were afraid of being accused of racism for exposing it

As people have pointed out, this is absolute nonsense. Police covered up because some of them were involved and paid off by the criminal gangs who perpetrated the abuse, but more generally law enforcement saw this type of abuse as "SOS": Scum on Scum, because of who the victims were (troubled young girls in care).

"Council Estate people" doesn't make any sense, I'm assuming he means social services. But again the allegation that they didn't expose it for fears of racism allegations is something that was made up by the Express and the Mail. The reasons for social services not acting are more complicated, but was partly due to the "SOS" factor, and partly to do with workers feeling or believing young people that these abusers were actually "boyfriends", rather than abusers (thankfully there has been a real seachange in how social workers view child sexual exploitation since this scandal). Some workers didn't specifically mention the ethnicities of the abusers: this is the factor which the media picked on. But it had nothing to do with the reason why the abuse wasn't challenged.

timthelion
Offline
Joined: 14-05-16
Sep 10 2016 13:29

-

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Jun 7 2016 10:29

Tim, please remind me, why is it you are posting on a site called libcom?

timthelion
Offline
Joined: 14-05-16
Sep 10 2016 14:01

-

Reddebrek's picture
Reddebrek
Offline
Joined: 4-01-12
Jun 7 2016 12:19
timthelion wrote:
@Steven OK, I'll go then. But are you actually going to respond to what I wrote and tell me what you think is wrong with it?

How about the part were you make all the same ridiculous assumptions (including anecdotes) Kingzog did?

timthelion
Offline
Joined: 14-05-16
Sep 10 2016 13:29

-

Fleur
Offline
Joined: 21-02-12
Jun 7 2016 12:42
Quote:
That is simply not a scene that exists outside of an imigrant context.

You fucking kidding me? Only immigrants sexually harass women & girls? Having read all your posts timthelionland is a weird and fucked up world, a mixture of fantasy, ignorance and utter cluelessness.

timthelion
Offline
Joined: 14-05-16
Sep 10 2016 14:01

-

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
Offline
Joined: 27-06-06
Jun 7 2016 14:14
timthelion wrote:

So I definitely feel that immigrants need some guidance in adjusting, if they've come from a horrible fucked up country.

What about English sex tourists and paedophiles in Thailand and the Far East? Is England a "horrible fucked up country", or are those countries where mostly non-white people live?

Reddebrek's picture
Reddebrek
Offline
Joined: 4-01-12
Jun 7 2016 14:29
timthelion wrote:
@ Reddebrek I shared my personal experience. Yes, it is anecdotal, not statistical but I was simply sharing what I had experienced. These aren't randomly chosen articles from internet news, its a chapter of my life. And this was a chapter which is defined by things happening that were specific to an imigrant dense context. I'm sorry if my life experiences are offensive to you, but that doesn't make my experience less real.

I'm not really bothered about your experiences, I find the conclusions you've drawn from them offensive and on the level of King Zog. Your obliviousness is disappointing but not really surprising.

What you've done is recite a grab bag of times you meet people different from you acting in deplorable ways. But rather than come to the conclusion that gang members and creepy sex tourists are bad you seem to have fixed on their different national origin from you.

Kingzog made the same point about gang's and it was dealt with, other users have dealt with sexual tourism too. You've not brought anything new and your commentary is riddled with chauvinistic bollocks about how migrants need to understand that the Czech Republic(and Europe) is a civilised nation. Even though the national groups you've mentioned all come from nations were the acts you've described are strictly prohibited.

You've told us some tales then came to some strange conclusions, but you haven't actually connected them. The actions of some migrants do not reflect on them as group but that is exactly what you've done. Georgians wrecked a pub? must be Georgian culture to blame. A Kyrgyz gang boss assaulted a man, must be his inability to integrate into Czech culture, (even though he clearly knew it wasn't okay to do if he used his connections to escape punishment). So on, and so on.

timthelion
Offline
Joined: 14-05-16
Sep 10 2016 14:02

-

timthelion
Offline
Joined: 14-05-16
Sep 10 2016 14:02

-