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Labour Transformed-deeply disturbing

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Noah Fence's picture
Noah Fence
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Jan 14 2020 22:13

From conversations(if you can call them that) with the people touting this around the Internet, it’s very clear that this is a shambolic, ill thought out affair with none of them able to answer any challenges to their proposal.
Surely, if they gained any traction, they won’t of course, but let’s say they did and they started making a noise, the PLP would stamp all over them, right?
The whole thing is cringy and hilarious in equal measure. It’s about as credible as all those edgy conservatives hoisting their black and yellow flags and calling themselves anarchists.

Mike Harman
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Jan 15 2020 08:47
Reddebrek wrote:
Spikymike wrote:
So a kind of 'anarchist entry-ism' to compete with the Trots?

Could be the other way around, while trot entryism is a well documented, over the years I've noticed a sort of counter tendency where people join the party, have their illusions shattered by its reality, but through its proximity to the "left" are exposed to other ideas and develop along them, but it takes awhile (sometimes never) for them to break off.

...

I'd say this thing will probably burn out long before it gets to be a problem for the labour party's internal organs, unless it taps into a lot of other frustrated party members.

This is probably closest to my reading of it as well.

Would add that I hope the formation burns out before the individual people in it do. Feels fundamentally different from Novara (or Labour Transformed) in that it's non-careerists following a very poorly thought out strategy to reform the Labour Party and lobby for single issue policies within it, vs. careerists following a (relatively) successful strategy to build their own careers.

Battlescarred
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Jan 15 2020 09:14

I'm not in the AF anymore but someone who was a Labour Party member would not have been allowed entry into the AF for sure. So either they kept extremely quiet about their LP membership or they just said they were in the AF without it being true. Whereabouts was this person?

Mike Harman
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Jan 15 2020 10:55

Who is claiming to have had dual membership of the AF and the Labour Party?

Battlescarred
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Jan 15 2020 11:50

See Reddebrek's post. Pay attention!

Nymphalis Antiopa
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Jan 15 2020 12:20

It's not enough to criticise recuperation of radical statements, which anyway has been constantly happening for over 100 years.

Surely the main problem is that the nature of such statements make them open to recuperation. The original "As we see it" is vague and general and is typical of organisations wanting to win people over on the basis of some simplistic abstraction. Anybody who has anything worthwhile saying doesn't need to state "As we see it" or "Where we stand" or whatever general definition of themselves that reduce their activity to relatively obvious (at least for those who want the abolition of capitalism) lowest common denominators that just unite people round this lowest common denominator. "Whatever activity increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the egalitarian tendencies and the self-activity of the working class and whatever furthers its political consciousness" should be implicit and inherent in any precise developments of such a perspective. Whilst such necessities can be made explicit, taking them out of the context of an account and/or analysis of a precise situation or contradiction makes them easily adopted by those who have no desire of making them have any practical meaning whatsoever, and no idea of how to. They just become nice turns of phrases aimed to recruit because in many ways these "As we see it"s were/are intended to recruit when they were created by people with more radical perspectives. More radical but not so radical as to reject the idea and desire to recruit, to want members. Kind of radical versions of advertising.

Anyone who genuinely want to contribute to increasing "the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the egalitarian tendencies and the self-activity" of themselves and the working class as a whole will not be looking for such platitudes to inspire them to do so.

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R Totale
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Mar 1 2020 17:12

I realise that paying any attention to any twitter drama is always a terrible idea, but I was quite entertained to learn that one of the main Black Rose Labour people also crosses picket lines. I didn't really think you could get much less coherent when "Labour Party anarchist" is your starting point, but that person might just have managed it.

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R Totale
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May 19 2020 14:09

Might as well ask this here as anywhere: I realise the correct answer is "pay no attention at all and thank your lucky stars that you're not a labour member so you don't have to deal with any of this stuff", but can anyone give a simple answer as to what the difference between Forward Momentum and Momentum Renewal is?

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Fozzie
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May 19 2020 16:35

I mean I really can't be arsed but Renewal seems to have the Novara lot on board FWIW.

I've had a quick skim of both and it's all socialism, community organising, trade unions, democracy in the Labour Party whoop whoop we can do this stuff?

I got confused which was which when flipping between browser windows, so I doubt you are alone in posing this question.

Perhaps, and hear me out on this, they are basically the same but composed of different people who can't stand each other?

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Fozzie
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May 19 2020 19:44

Labour Transformed are getting behind Forward Momentum according to their Facebook.

I remain baffled.

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R Totale
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May 19 2020 20:17

Just to make it even more confusing "forward" definitely sounds more like a "Let's go ahead carrying on doing the same stuff"-type name, and "renewal" sounds more like a "Let's change some stuff" name, but from what I can understand Lansman and the existing leadership are behind renewal, which feels quite conter-intuitive? Anyway, I suppose the likelihood of my street's whatsapp group splintering into rival pro-Forward and pro-Renewal factions is quite remote, so I think I probably don't need to worry about keeping track of which is which too much. And with that, I can get back to archiving the papers of the British section of the IWA, an organisation which has definitely never suffered from any bitter faction fights that are totally incomprehensible to outsiders.

Battlescarred
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May 21 2020 15:37

Ah, now a group called Momentum Internationalists is organising within Forward Momentum which is working witthin Momentum which is working within the Labour Party. Reminds me of the matryoshka Russian dolls.

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comradeEmma
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May 21 2020 20:08

What tendencies do these people actually come from? The slogan of "Democracy, Class Struggle & Internationalism" sounds very specific.

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R Totale
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May 21 2020 20:20

If you open up the Momentum Internationalists matryoshka, you'll find Workers' Liberty nestled inside (Shachmanite/third camp flavour trots, if you're not familiar). But as noted above, MI are just one faction within FM, if you're asking about the broader politics of FM, or indeed MR, as a whole then your guess is as good as mine.