Hamas And The Holocaust

120 posts / 0 new
Last post
fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 19 2008 19:12
Hamas And The Holocaust

This is a copy of a post from the Green Brigade website:

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/17672

We are not engaged in a religious conflict with Jews; this is a political struggle to free ourselves from occupation and oppression
May 18, 2008 By Bassem Naeem
Source: UK Guardian

Bassem Naeem's ZSpace Page

Join ZSpace

As the Palestinian people prepare to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Nakba ("catastrophe") - the dispossession and expulsion of most of our people from our land - those remaining in Palestine face escalating aggression, killings, imprisonment, ethnic cleansing and siege. But instead of support and solidarity from the western media, we face frequent attempts to defend the indefensible or turn fire on the Palestinians themselves.

One recent approach, which seems to be part of the wider attempt to isolate the elected Palestinian leadership, is to portray Hamas and the population of the Gaza strip as motivated by anti-Jewish sentiment, rather than a hostility to Zionist occupation and domination of our land. A recent front page article in the International Herald Tribune followed this line, as did an article for Cif about an item broadcast on the al-Aqsa satellite TV channnel about the Nazi Holocaust.

In fact, the al-Aqsa Channel is an independent media institution that often does not express the views of the Palestinian government headed by Ismail Haniyeh or of the Hamas movement. The channel regularly gives Palestinians of different convictions the chance to express views that are not shared by the Palestinian government or the Hamas movement. In the case of the opinion expressed on al-Aqsa TV by Amin Dabbur, it is his alone and he is solely responsible for it.

It is rather surprising to us that so little attention, if any, is given by the western media to what is regularly broadcast or written in the Israeli media by politicians and writers demanding the total uprooting or "transfer" of the Palestinian people from their land.

The Israeli media and pro-Israel western press are full of views that deny or seek to excuse well-established facts of history including the Nakba of 1948 and the massacres perpetrated then by the Haganah, the Irgun and LEHI with the objective of forcing a mass dispossession of the Palestinians.

But it should be made clear that neither Hamas nor the Palestinian government in Gaza denies the Nazi Holocaust. The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history. We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality.

And at the same time as we unreservedly condemn the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis against the Jews of Europe, we categorically reject the exploitation of the Holocaust by the Zionists to justify their crimes and harness international acceptance of the campaign of ethnic cleansing and subjection they have been waging against us - to the point where in February the Israeli deputy defence minister Matan Vilnai threatened the people of Gaza with a "holocaust".

Within 24 hours, 61 Palestinians - more than half of them civilians and a quarter children - were killed in a series of air raids. Meanwhile, a horrible crime against humanity continues to be perpetrated against the people of Gaza: the two-year-old siege imposed after Hamas won the legislative elections in January 2006, which is causing great suffering. Due to severe shortages of medicines and food, scores of Palestinians have lost their lives.

It cannot be right that Europeans in general and the British in particular maintain a virtual silence toward what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians, let alone supporting or justifying their oppressive policies, under the pretext of showing sympathy for the victims of the Holocaust.

The Palestinian people aspire to freedom, independence and peaceful coexistence with all their neighbours. There are, today, more than six million Palestinian refugees. No less than 700,000 Palestinians have been detained at least once by the Israeli occupation authorities since 1967. Hundreds of thousands have so far been killed or wounded. Little concern seems to be caused by all of this or by the erection of an apartheid wall that swallows more than 20% of the West Bank land or the heavily armed colonies that devour Palestinian land in a blatant violation of international law.

The plight of our people is not the product of a religious conflict between us and the Jews in Palestine or anywhere else: the aims and positions of today's Hamas have been repeatedly spelled out by its leadership, for example in Hamas's 2006 programme for government. The conflict is of a purely political nature: it is between a people who have come under occupation and an oppressive occupying power.

Our right to resistance against occupation is recognised by all conventions and religious traditions. The Jews are for us the people of a sacred book who suffered persecution in European lands. Whenever they sought refuge, Muslim and Arab lands provided them with safe havens. It was in our midst that they enjoyed peace and prosperity; many of them held leading positions in Muslim countries.

After almost a century of Zionist colonial and racist oppression, some Palestinians find it hard to imagine that some of their oppressors are the sons and daughters of those who were themselves oppressed and massacred.

Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust but find themselves punished for someone else's crime. But we are well aware and warmly welcome the outspoken support for Palestinian rights by Israeli and Jewish human rights activists in Palestine and around the world.

We hope that journalists in the west will begin to adopt a more objective approach when covering events in Palestine. The Palestinian people are being killed by Israel's machine of destruction on a daily basis. Nevertheless, we still see a clear bias in favour of Israel in the western media.

The Europeans bear a direct responsibility for what is befalling the Palestinians today. Britain was the mandate authority that handed over Palestine to Israeli occupation. Nazi Germany perpetrated the most heinous crimes against Jews, forcing the survivors to migrate to Palestine in pursuit of safety. We, therefore, expect the Europeans to atone for their historic crimes by restoring some balance to the inhuman and one-sided international response to the tragedy of our people.

Bassem Naeem is the minister of health and information in the Hamas-led Palestinian administration in Gaza.

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 19 2008 19:36

I thought this was a very good and interesting article but would like an explanation as to why a spokesman for Hamas described the massacre of Israeli school children as heroic, thats if it was reported accurately.

xeirecorex
Offline
Joined: 8-12-03
May 19 2008 20:53

Because Hamas are fucking scumbags with no regard for human life.

Refused's picture
Refused
Offline
Joined: 28-09-04
May 19 2008 20:54
xeirecorex wrote:
Because Hamas are fucking scumbags with no regard for human life.
jef costello's picture
jef costello
Offline
Joined: 9-02-06
May 19 2008 23:55

because Hamas is not homogenous and its members can have different beliefs and opinions, and is a political organisation so at times it suits its purposes to use different rhetoric and to support different actions.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
May 20 2008 08:38
Quote:
Because Hamas are fucking scumbags with no regard for human life.
Quote:

because Hamas is not homogenous and its members can have different beliefs and opinions, and is a political organisation so at times it suits its purposes to use different rhetoric and to support different actions.

Jef wins.

australianirish...
Offline
Joined: 12-12-05
May 20 2008 09:59

I recently saw a documentary on Hamas. They have become unpopular with their authoritarian policies on the Palestinians, which have included barring worship outside of some Mosques in dealing with political issues. I suggest you look for the documentary it if your interested in Hamas/Palestine. Its sad to see that Hamas is the alternative to Fatah, seeing as though Fatah is barely a strong representative of the Palestinian people.

Tojiah's picture
Tojiah
Offline
Joined: 2-10-06
May 20 2008 19:34

I would have thought that waging civil war on half the Palestinian population in Gaza would be a bit less popular than the rezoning of a few Mosques. But what would I know?

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 20 2008 19:55

I can't see how Fatah these days has anything in common with the Palestinian people, after all noone has voted for them. But I agree about Hamas, they are the only alternative in Palestine. This is why many on the left want to support them, the opinion being that Palestinians have no self-determination and so the only thing we can do is to support Hamas in any way we can.

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 20 2008 19:57
tojiah wrote:
I would have thought that waging civil war on half the Palestinian population in Gaza would be a bit less popular than the rezoning of a few Mosques. But what would I know?

thats not at all how I remember things but I'm not a Zionist.

georgestapleton's picture
georgestapleton
Offline
Joined: 4-08-05
May 21 2008 01:10
xeirecorex wrote:
Because Hamas are fucking scumbags with no regard for human life.

xeirecorex ha ha ha ha ha ha you punk

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 21 2008 15:42
australianirishcatholic wrote:
I recently saw a documentary on Hamas. They have become unpopular with their authoritarian policies on the Palestinians, which have included barring worship outside of some Mosques in dealing with political issues. I suggest you look for the documentary it if your interested in Hamas/Palestine. Its sad to see that Hamas is the alternative to Fatah, seeing as though Fatah is barely a strong representative of the Palestinian people.

What was the documentary called?

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 21 2008 15:48
guydebordisdead wrote:
red and black riot wrote:
tojiah wrote:
I would have thought that waging civil war on half the Palestinian population in Gaza would be a bit less popular than the rezoning of a few Mosques. But what would I know?

thats not at all how I remember things but I'm not a Zionist.

Did you just accuse him of being a Zionist?

I'm simply pointing out that thats how Zionists think. He certainly sounds like one. And I can't even say it without questions being asked, pathetic. i don't see why I'm having to explain myself at all. Just waiting now for the jew baiting accusations.

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
May 21 2008 16:19
red and black riot wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
Did you just accuse him of being a Zionist?

I'm simply pointing out that thats how Zionists think. He certainly sounds like one.

you don't know him very well, do you

Tojiah's picture
Tojiah
Offline
Joined: 2-10-06
May 21 2008 19:23
red and black riot wrote:
tojiah wrote:
I would have thought that waging civil war on half the Palestinian population in Gaza would be a bit less popular than the rezoning of a few Mosques. But what would I know?

thats not at all how I remember things but I'm not a Zionist.

Neither am I, but this:

Palestinian fighting 'will burn all of us,' official says (CNN)
Hamas hails 'liberation' of Gaza (BBC Online)
Fatah-Hamas conflict (Wikipedia)
Hamas' Shock and Awe (Electronic Intifada)
Report: Infighting claimed lives of 161 Palestinians (EI)
Gaza's hard place between Israeli and Palestinian violence (EI)
is not Zionist propaganda.

Sure, the IDF is better at killing Palestinians than Hamas, but does that absolve the latter? They've definitely shown more skill in killing their "brothers" than in killing any Zionists in the past couple of years.

Pepe
Offline
Joined: 26-11-04
May 21 2008 19:25
Refused wrote:
xeirecorex wrote:
Because Hamas are fucking scumbags with no regard for human life.
Tojiah's picture
Tojiah
Offline
Joined: 2-10-06
May 21 2008 19:26
guydebordisdead wrote:
newyawka wrote:
red and black riot wrote:
guydebordisdead wrote:
Did you just accuse him of being a Zionist?

I'm simply pointing out that thats how Zionists think. He certainly sounds like one.

you don't know him very well, do you

He lives in Israel and doesnt like Hamas, he is obviously a Zionist. roll eyes

I heard that in a recent demo (that amounted to a few dozen people at the most) there was a kind of slogan war between the Pro-Hamas faction (centered around Gush Shalom) and the Pro-Fatah faction (centered around CPI). roll eyes

Pepe
Offline
Joined: 26-11-04
May 21 2008 19:47

don't like that hamas

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 22 2008 20:39
tojiah wrote:
red and black riot wrote:
tojiah wrote:
I would have thought that waging civil war on half the Palestinian population in Gaza would be a bit less popular than the rezoning of a few Mosques. But what would I know?

thats not at all how I remember things but I'm not a Zionist.

Neither am I, but this:

Palestinian fighting 'will burn all of us,' official says (CNN)
Hamas hails 'liberation' of Gaza (BBC Online)
Fatah-Hamas conflict (Wikipedia)
Hamas' Shock and Awe (Electronic Intifada)
Report: Infighting claimed lives of 161 Palestinians (EI)
Gaza's hard place between Israeli and Palestinian violence (EI)
is not Zionist propaganda.

Sure, the IDF is better at killing Palestinians than Hamas, but does that absolve the latter? They've definitely shown more skill in killing their "brothers" than in killing any Zionists in the past couple of years.

I'm not on the side of Hamas as such, I'm just undecided. And this is probably because one of my comrades puts forward very good arguments regarding supporting/being in favour of national liberation movements, particularly against the Israeli state. However I am wary of this as I don't really like the idea of supporting religous parties let alone secular ones. Your view on recent events in Palestine/Israel seems very odd though and does come across to me as Zionist propaganda, anyway will read your links.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
May 22 2008 21:26
Quote:
particularly against the Israeli state.

why single out the Israeli state?

Quote:
Your view on recent events in Palestine/Israel seems very odd though and does come across to me as Zionist propaganda, anyway will read your links.

Only if you regard criticism of Hamas and/or Palestinians as zionist. Which it clearly isn't. You should analyze Hamas through the lens of class, and then you will understand better where ToJ is coming from.

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
May 23 2008 01:59
Khawaga wrote:
Quote:
particularly against the Israeli state.

why single out the Israeli state?

ditto.

Tojiah's picture
Tojiah
Offline
Joined: 2-10-06
May 23 2008 08:51
red and black riot wrote:
Your view on recent events in Palestine/Israel seems very odd though and does come across to me as Zionist propaganda...

In what way?

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 23 2008 15:25
newyawka wrote:
Khawaga wrote:
Quote:
particularly against the Israeli state.

why single out the Israeli state?

ditto.

Probaably because it has been allowed to get away with evrything you can imagine since 1948.

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 23 2008 15:29
tojiah wrote:
red and black riot wrote:
Your view on recent events in Palestine/Israel seems very odd though and does come across to me as Zionist propaganda...

In what way?

Well, You put the blame more on Hamas than Israel, when if Israel and Fatah hadn't attacked Hamas in the first place and refused to talk or acknowledge Hamas (like the US too) then there wouldn't be so much trouble.

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 23 2008 15:30

I am talking about what happened in the West bank and also what happened right from the off, when Hamas were elected by the Palestinians.

Caiman del Barrio
Offline
Joined: 28-09-04
May 23 2008 16:14

In purely aesthetic terms, that is such an awesome picture.

Tojiah's picture
Tojiah
Offline
Joined: 2-10-06
May 23 2008 22:50
red and black riot wrote:
tojiah wrote:
red and black riot wrote:
Your view on recent events in Palestine/Israel seems very odd though and does come across to me as Zionist propaganda...

In what way?

Well, You put the blame more on Hamas than Israel, when if Israel and Fatah hadn't attacked Hamas in the first place and refused to talk or acknowledge Hamas (like the US too) then there wouldn't be so much trouble.

I was merely noting that Hamas had done worse things to Palestinians than merely rezone a few bloody mosques. As in actually killing Palestinians. I'm asking you again, is that Zionist propaganda? The last few links I gave you were from a site called Electronic Intifada. Amusingly enough, it seems that CAMERA have been all over the wikipedia article describing them:

CAMERApedia wrote:
Gerald M. Steinberg, the Director of the Program on Conflict Resolution at Bar Ilan University and head of NGO Monitor, described Electronic Intifada as "an explicitly pro-Palestinian political and ideological Web site"[6] that hosts "anti-Israel propaganda."

I think it's safe to say that EI isn't a Zionist propaganda site. But enough of that.

Are you aware that Hamas wouldn't have gotten to where it was a decade and a half ago had it not been for Israel's support for it as an opposition to PLO influence in the West Bank and Gaza? By the attitude that you seem to be professing, Hamas should have been condemned as an imperialist ploy to weaken the PLO. Now that the alignments have changed, you would suddenly support Hamas? It's mere opportunistic contrariness, no better than the real-politik of the American and Israeli ruling classes.

If you ask me, both Hamas and Fatah have proven themselves, through their murderous behavior in Gaza, to be mere bourgeois criminal gangs; that does not detract from the fact that the Israeli siege of Gaza is appalling (though, in all honesty, the blame for that should be shared with Egypt's rulers as well), and the uninhibited praise showered upon 60 Years of Israeli colonialism, culminating in this siege as well as the de-facto ethnic cleansing in the areas directly controlled by Israel, did fill me with disgust, inured as I am with the hypocrisy and temerity of the ruling classes.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
May 24 2008 06:42
Quote:
Probaably because it has been allowed to get away with evrything you can imagine since 1948.

While Israel has certainly gotten away with lots and lots of really bad stuff, who has let them get away with it? Other fucking states. And I am not just talking about the US and the UK here. The Arab states, in particular those that border Israel, have allowed Israel to get away with all kinds of things since 1948.

And they've been ding their share of shit as well. Like the occupation of Gaza by Egypt and West Bank by the Jordanians. Ever wonder why the West Bank is called the West Bank, you know since it is east of Israel?. Or for that matter Jordan and Lebanon's horrific treatment of Palestinian refugees, or the sheer number of Arab states using and abusing the Palestinians for domestic political purposes.

Name any state, and since their creation you will find lots and lots of similarities with Israel. Practically all nation-states are born out of atrocities and the subjugation of other populations. Historically this has been the norm, not the exception. The only exception in the case of Israel is that it is happening in the 20th/21st centuries.

edited for clarity

petey
Offline
Joined: 13-10-05
May 24 2008 15:35
Khawaga wrote:
Name any state, and since their creation you will find lots and lots of similarities with Israel. Practically all nation-states are born out of atrocities and the subjugation of other populations. Historically this has been the norm, not the exception. The only exception in the case of Israel is that it is happening in the 20th/21st centuries.

for example, the US has been doing a 'palestinian' on indians since 1789

Caiman del Barrio
Offline
Joined: 28-09-04
May 24 2008 16:22

...and the Spanish in Latin America since 1514.

fidel gastro
Offline
Joined: 15-04-08
May 24 2008 18:36

So what do we do? Nothing I guess, right? This is my point. The oppressors are Israel, an ally of the US and though Hamas are not at all perfect, they are the only people who can fight the Israelis just as Hezbollah are the only people who can defend Lebanon from Israel. So I can understand why people want to support these movements, they don't want to sit back and watch Israel do as they wish, they feel that if they had the power they would arm Hamas and Hezbollah and support them so that Israel would be on the defensive. I don't know if thats the right thing to do, it could be a massive mistake but what other choice is there?