EDL crash anarchist meeting

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Thrashing_chomsky
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Jul 4 2010 23:01

Admit it, you're gay as hell.

Iron_Fist
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Jul 4 2010 23:16

christ this is painful.

to the EDL, tell me how you will prevent future attacks by gathering in a pub at 10am, getting half pissed then singing rule britania and 'lets go fucking mental' for a while before tearing down police barricades, throwing nazi salutes and regaling the people you claim to represent with chants of 'filthy fucking pakis' and suchlike.

charles the hammer, you have stated in the past that the EDL is against ALL left wing organisations and trade unions. how is that defending the working class? Also, you deny links to the BNP and the far right, but why then where there several members of the BFF at your most recent demos and why do you continue to court thier support and that of known racists and criminals convicted of race related crimes?

heres a few quotes from the more active members of the EDL forums, at elast one of whom is a moderator and another a regional organiser.

[b]Anxiety86[/b] - A few house bricks off the top roof down to the muzzies will go down nice.

Ash 17 - Just got confirmed of a mate who is there that there are thousands of muslims out. Fucking scum of the earth

Ash 17- I really don't know whats going off, I got one text saying "were dead" and now their phone is off. Typical muslim scum come in their thousands, another Harrow I bet, scumbags.

Ash 17 - Muslims have knifes, just chased a small group, these people are really disgusting filthy cunts

Southwales - Well done everyone involved, This direct action really is paying off. f**k the muslims who turned up this is not there land and I am sure if they carry on pissing people off they will all be deported and that is what we really want.

I could go on, but you know that your forums are rife with this sort of garbage. oh, i know youre going to claim that these people arent 'real EDL' etc, but the simple fact is that the represent about 90% of members and they are the ones who are hostile to the league branching out and becoming more mainstream, preffering to keep it for 'football lads' only.

your opposition tio the european union, under the flimsy giuse of patriotism is fucking laughable. you cant even admit your own xenophobia, even though 100% of your forum membership voted either BNP or UKIP in the last election.

the grim reality is that you have provided a platform for right wing racists and the most disgraceful bigots and that is who you have become. far from opposing radical and militant islam, you have chosen to target your energies on the more obvious and visible targets of the left wing and the trade union movement. your logis is flawed, your arguements are ridiculous and your sole intent is violence. we know exactly who you are and what youre about. the games up, so stop lying and just admit that you are a right wing nationalist rabble.

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jef costello
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Jul 4 2010 23:14

ten people is hardly a big threat.

Two soldiers killed last year
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7930995.stm

bombings this year
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/23/ira-bomb-threatens-northe_n_473244.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/7582229/Real-IRA-attack-MI5-headquarters-in-Northern-Ireland.html

Yet I don't see you picketing your local O'Neill's or a catholic church.

Charles the hammer
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Jul 5 2010 01:12

Quote: "charles the hammer, you have stated in the past that the EDL is against ALL left wing organisations and trade unions"

Where have I said this? please give evidence. And to be honest I am personally against all left wing groupings, you live in a different world to the rest of us. I bet it really hurt seeing so many people supporting England during this world cup. Probalbly dismissed all the people with England flags flying from their cars as 'chavs.'

As for the trade unionists I'll mention one name, Bob Crow. A man who 'fights' for the working class whilst earning over a hundred grand a year http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291378/Union-fatcats-earn-times-average-worker.html There is no way I would get involved with any trade unionist movement when the people at the top are like Mr fat prick.

Your example from our forums means fuck all, the average person on the street thinks the same. As I found out on a building site this week.

As for the BNP, FUCK THEM. They're about as organised and politically deluded as you lot on here, I couldn't give a fuck if they folded today. I would support UKIP yes, I'll support any party that is against the totalitarianism that is the EU. You probably see UKIP as fascists, you see the conservatives as fascists, infact you see anyone who doesn't think the same as you as fascists.

Quote: "I suppose this is an inevitable consequence of the way football violence has been policed over the years. I bet most of them have never been in a ruck and they're just fronting it over the internet, and there's a few old hands keeping the young ones all dewy eyed with tales of how they ran this or that firm in the 80s. What a load of shit."

Really. There was 5 of us who turned up to that meeting expecting the place to be filled with hardcore 'class warriors' but we still went in without knowing how many people were in there. Would you lot turn up to one of our meetings and do the same? I think not.

We walked into that meeting and did as we pleased, we even told Mr Norway to sit down and stop shaking like a class warrior. We were in complete control, just like we are on our demo days. But did we resort to violence? No, there were girls in that room and apart from one the rest of the class warriors were a joke. How you think you will overthrow capitalism I do not know, it seems to me you couldn't overthrow a tennis ball.

Why have we managed to get this big so quick? Because we are in touch with the working man, you lot are in touch with fuck all. The left has always been a shambles in Britian, a complete waste of space.

Ultimatly you are nothing, we the EDL know you are nothing. It's becoming boring having to humiliate you time after time.

This will be my first and last post on this forum, I'll see you all at your next anti-EDL meeting as I might pop in to take the piss again. If not before then I'll see you in Bradford. Bye ladies.

Oh, fell free to turn up to one of our meetings. I'm sure you'll be made welcome.

raize
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Jul 5 2010 02:24

To be honest you seem the mirror image of some sections of 'the left', entirely irrelevant. Although I'm sure its lovely for you going out to a building site and meeting the great unwashed the vast majority of people see you as mental as they see 'anarchism'.

Quote:
I bet it really hurt seeing so many people supporting England during this world cup. Probalbly dismissed all the people with England flags flying from their cars as 'chavs.'

I was just shocked by the shoddy quality of flags, quite why the vast majority of flag-makers feel the need to write 'ENGLAND' across a emblem already representing England just confuses me, not to mention the obsession with sticking lions over everything.

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Django
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Jul 5 2010 06:57
Quote:
Where have I said this? please give evidence. And to be honest I am personally against all left wing groupings, you live in a different world to the rest of us. I bet it really hurt seeing so many people supporting England during this world cup. Probalbly dismissed all the people with England flags flying from their cars as 'chavs.'

Its pretty poor 'debating' to get upset about no evidence being provided to back up a point then to go on about how people "probably" dismissed england fans as "chavs" ... with no evidence to back it up.

Here's a couple of questions that the EDL posters on here have had put to them time and time again, and are incapable of answering:

* If they're only against "radical Islam" why pitch up in towns like Bolton where the 'Muslim community' is only really noteworthy for producing good boxers?

* Given that the biggest explosives haul in the UK in recent history was from the far-right, the recent imprisonment of neo-nazis (and EDL forum moderators...oops) on terrorist charges, the history of far-right terrorism in the UK, etc, why aren't the EDL protesting outside BNP meetings?

Cue flouncing and refusing to answer direct questions cause they're "not relevent".

gypsy
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Jul 5 2010 07:17
Charles the hammer wrote:

Really. There was 5 of us who turned up to that meeting expecting the place to be filled with hardcore 'class warriors' but we still went in without knowing how many people were in there. Would you lot turn up to one of our meetings and do the same? I think not.

We walked into that meeting and did as we pleased, we even told Mr Norway to sit down and stop shaking like a class warrior. We were in complete control, just like we are on our demo days. But did we resort to violence? No, there were girls in that room and apart from one the rest of the class warriors were a joke. How you think you will overthrow capitalism I do not know, it seems to me you couldn't overthrow a tennis ball.

If not before then I'll see you in Bradford. Bye ladies.

Oh, fell free to turn up to one of our meetings. I'm sure you'll be made welcome.

I doubt we would be allowed to turn up to your meetings. We would most probably getting a beating, shown the door and would not allowed to debate. I love all your sexist/homophobic/macho language, calling us ladies etc

Oh this means anytime we have a meeting all we have to do is bring a few girls into the room and we know that you's won't resort to violence. How reassuring.

Us anarchists actually have quite a good critique of trade unions if you read our stuff and we agree that the way most unions are set up is hierarchicial and flawed. Basically they don't do enough for the working class and are mostly ultimately reformist. However we realise that they are in simple terms are better than nothing(other anarchists please correct me if im wrong or you think differently).

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Django
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Jul 5 2010 07:17
Quote:
As for the trade unionists I'll mention one name, Bob Crow. A man who 'fights' for the working class whilst earning over a hundred grand a year http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291378/Union-fatcats-earn-times-average-worker.html There is no way I would get involved with any trade unionist movement when the people at the top are like Mr fat prick

...

I would support UKIP yes, I'll support any party that is against the totalitarianism that is the EU. You probably see UKIP as fascists, you see the conservatives as fascists, infact you see anyone who doesn't think the same as you as fascists.

Clearly everyone running UKIP are paupers then? roll eyes

There are lots of criticisms made of trade unions and there structure here all the time which you'd know if you hadn't pitched up to troll. However the majority of union reps enountered on a day to day basis are part-timers doing it without pay and who are workers in that workplace. These are the people doing lots of hard work and trying to push workers' interests - in organisations frequently hostile to any meaningful action, ehich put them in a contradictory position, etc, but they aren't on £100,000 a year.

gypsy
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Jul 5 2010 07:47

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Rob Ray
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Jul 5 2010 08:31
Quote:
I didn't reply to you because the points you were making were irrevelant

Why? Seemed a pretty clear parallel to me. If a few gay nutters got it into their heads to bomb London, would you march against the "homosexual fundamentalist" threat? Picket G.A.Y maybe?

Tbh if you're going to attempt to argue with us, ignoring anything you don't like (or saying 'and so' in lieu of a decent argument) then just repeatedly posting up discredited scare stories is a bit of a piss poor way to go about it. Good questions to answer would include:

How many attacks by Islamic fundamentalists have there been in the last 20 years? Hell make it 50 if you like. How many people have died? How many muslims are there in Britain? How many are members of the EDL - I mean surely if you aren't against them then you're defending them from extremists as much as yourselves, right?

You get the idea. Basically, other than a video about extremists in mosques (and frankly as gobby twats they're pretty much on a level with some of the fools you get out on a Friday night), where's your evidence? Not hearsay, not spooks drumming up business with scare stories, actual hard facts (or failing that, just logic) to support your case.

What we've been charging above is that you don't actually have any. Because other than one incident - massively outweighed by the number of deaths from say, racist attacks carried out over the same period - there are no deaths, no mobs of muslims burning down the houses of parliament, no Sharia laws and tbh, outside a few ghettoised communities like Whitechapel (where the EDL has fuck all traction), not even many muslims.

And I repeat, why aren't your lads marching against the budget cuts? Because in terms of deaths, I will bet you any sum of money you like that the campaigns I'm involved with, if successful, can save waaay more lives than the campaign you're involved with. Logically, this is a priorities job. What can do the most good? Unless you're a bit scared that standing up to the state is likely to be an order of magnitude more difficult than egging it on to repress a few dozen losers it's already got well in hand.

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Steven.
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Jul 5 2010 08:50
allybaba wrote:
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Arthur wrote:
Come on guys, stay united, many of us EDL are on these enemy sites, we have to, got to keep up with what they are up to and how they think.

Arthur.

Surely the ban hammer will come down on Arthur after that little slip up?

he was banned for a racist statement about Muslim shop workers being "no bodies"

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flaneur
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Jul 5 2010 09:18
Charles the hammer wrote:
Really. There was 5 of us who turned up to that meeting expecting the place to be filled with hardcore 'class warriors' but we still went in without knowing how many people were in there. Would you lot turn up to one of our meetings and do the same?

OH WOW, you have massive balls yet tiny brains, you are REAL MEN. I would hope people on here wouldn't be stupid enough to emulate such BRAVERY.

Maybe you could expand out to other markets of brave idiocy. Dashing across busy roads perhaps, or rolling around in used heroin needles. You will truly lead the way for the rest of WIMPS.

gypsy
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Jul 5 2010 10:31

Arthur deserved to be ban after that little slip up.Been reading some of the great EDL thinkers Zeferis's stuff on the EDL forum and he is right in my opinion on alot of stuff about the pointlessness of smashing up a tesco store(dont know if its been done) and other stuff. Anyway he then asked has the left done anything to help the working class? Well yes we have, have you heard of striking and supporting those workers. We support them(although we could always do more). Unlike your shitey bunch of right wingers who look down on them and any movement that tries to empower the working class. I've even seen them making comments supporting scabs(i think this was villaloyal) what absolute wankers!

Quote:
Just reading on Indymedia about the lefties many exploits in "defending" the rights of the working-class and "opposing" capitalism and I realised something, 99% of what they do is vandalise shops, banks, companies etc.

Now, for example the attacks they brag about on Tescos where they smash up the shop, spray-paint, vandalise etc. Do these attacks actually help the working-classes cause?

The answer, no they don't. The people working in Tescos and even the managers are just typical working-class people, by vandalising the stores it means that.

A) There's a stronger chance of said stores closing down which then leads to working-class people losing their jobs and becoming unemployed, all thanks to the actions of a group claiming to defend the working-class.

B) In the long run it keeps the wage down, the owners of Tesco and the board of directors are NOT going to lose money if their stores get smashed up. All they are going to do is keep the wages down to cover the costs, lay-off people to save money in order to cover the costs of repairs and think twice about building any more stores in the area thus once again leading to the working-class missing out on job opportunities.

Then there is their campaign against the banks. Ok, so they don't like greedy bank-managers, I don't like greedy bank managers but the loony left in the name of anti-capitalism decide to fight this by vandalising high-street banks. This leads to the same problems I mentioned above, it also means that the banks will be closed temporarily whilst repairs are carried out which means people won't be at work which means that they will lose out on money.

Then there's our already stretched emergency services who have to take time out to deal with the lefties attacks on banks and shops when they could be better spent solving actual crimes commited against the working-class. Once again the actual working-class lose out.

Then there's the latest attack on Indymedia bragging about destryoing 3 mobile phone antenas. This leads to the same problems mentioned above where the company owners don't lose out, rather the working-class grunts lower down on the ladder do. There's also the fact this shows no consideration to the many working class who will be inconvenieced by the loss of mobile-phone use.

Plumbers, taxi-drivers, buildings, decorators etc...All require the use of a mobile to get jobs, place quick orders whilst on the job etc.

Once again it is the working-class who are harmed by the actions of the left-wingers commiting crimes in the name of the working-class.

Basically, does the working class need the left-wingers interfering? No
Does the left-wingers interfering and vandalism actually do anything to harm capitalists and greedy company owners? No
Does the lefts interfering and vandalism instead harm the interests of the working-class? Yes

Then I can move on to the left-wingers love of squatting. Now, does this do anything for the working-class? Well...it brings down property value in the local area which then means working-class people will struggle to sell their houses/get a lower price for their houses.

Moving on, their boycott Israel campaign. All they do by boycotting Israeli goods and companies is NOT actually hurt the Israeli government. Instead their actions actually hurt the working-class working for Israeli companies who they boycott.

I could also rant about their G20 protests and climate-change protests, all of which do nothing but leave a sky-high bill for the working-class taxpayer to pick up.

So...do the left-wingers actually do anything at all the help the working class cause?

Also since you don't like being called nazis(rightly so) we don't like you to paint us all in the same light. The left is not just one movement, we do not get on with or agree with the SWP, the UAF. So please if you want to attack us on certain things please make sure your accusations are right. We are anarchists not trotskyists or state socialists. Please do abit of background reading about us before talking shite.

Iron_Fist
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Jul 5 2010 11:13

so Charles the hammer, you are confronted with evidence of your right wing tendencies and violent racism and you scuttle off, claiming we're clueless and cowards etc.

i notice that you completely failed to answer any of my questions and somehow managed to jump from being against trade unions to chavs flying England flags from their cars. Why would we be upset to see flags attached to cars? It makes no difference to me which football team you or anybody else supports, but you have equated the flag with 'true England' and all that comes with it. Further to that, you seem to think that being left wing or on anarchist means you must hate your country and its people. This is absolute and complete nonsense. We oppose the corrupt and hierarchical structure of our democratic institutions; this doesn’t mean are somehow dedicated to bringing about the death of the indigenous people of the British isles. Being proud of your country is all well and good, but when you start saying ‘my country and mine alone’ then it becomes something else, something dirty.

We on the ‘left’ do not support terrorists when we oppose your divisive and hateful flag waving. You are a threat to the cohesion of our communities. Not with your ridiculous parading and drunken demonstrations, but with your ill informed and deliberately misleading rhetoric. Your skewed version of reality and corrupt version of nationalism is what we oppose.

And therein lies your problem. You see nationalism as being a panacea for all of the countries ills. Support England and be proud, this will make everything better. If you fly the flag it tells Muslims they’re not welcome here and you'll get a good job. The labour govt made some serious mistakes and our economy is failing. Never mind, shout abuse at the pakis for a couple of hours and that makes you true English patriots and the economy is all better.

You have convinced yourselves that nationalism isn’t the same as racism, but then go off on a racist crusade under the guise of nationalistic pride, claiming, hilariously, that as Muslims aren’t a race then its not racist to say that Muslims are scum. Only a child or a mentally deficient person would accept this argument, but, as you have proven, you are quite willing to ignore the gaping flaws and holes in your logic.

You say the quotes from the EDL members are irrelevant, how so? They are the views of the EDL and entirely relevant. Germane, in fact. You cannot dismiss them with the claim that the majority of people on the street think this way, especially when you use the example of a building site as your evidence. How many people were on that site? 20, maybe 25? Hardly the majority is it?

In Dudley, your biggest demo to date, you managed to attract around 2500 supporters, about half of whom where there to cause trouble, as evidenced by their actions on the day. Although you claim to represent the majority of the people in the UK, the figures tell a very different story. 2500 EDL = 0.00416% of the population. In Kilmarnock a week or two ago the SDL managed to gather 40 supporters. FORTY. Ignoring for a moment the fact that about a dozen of them were English lads who had travelled for the day, that’s still less than one hundredth of one percent.

The fact is that you represent nobody but yourselves and nothing but your own blind ignorance and stupidity. This is why we oppose you. You bring nothing but hatred and ignorance to the table and your manners are disgraceful. If you don't like being called nazis, dont throw nazi salute at demos, dont allow the BFF, White Wolves, national Front, C18 and the BNP to attent demos and, quite simply, don't spout nazi propoganda.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of working class values, how much do you think it costs the working class tax payer every time the EDL, SDL and WDL take to the streets and 'demonstrate' (pronounced "riot"?) How many working hours are lost to shopkeepers, how much is policing and how much to clean up afterwards?

You are full of shit.

action_now
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Jul 5 2010 11:25

I cannot get over the niavety displayed by some posters here, of course the EDL use this site for surveilance and not just 'debate', and banning them from the forums won't stop this, just as anarchists and leftists scan their forums. This shit is hardly mindblowing but easy and obvious.

As for the actual meeting, what the fuck is up with not providing security for a meeting that spoke of 'the fight on the streets' with the EDL in a militant fashion? Secondly why was this not displayed? What I wonder is why this group calling for a militant coalition didn't start on top form by providing a safespace for attendees and handing the 'bullies' arses to them, especially while outnumbering them 20-4/5. What if they had come mob handed, what then?

Nor do I buy this stuff chatted by Thrashing_Chomsky about outsmarting the the gatecrashers. So what? You defeated a non-political grouping in a debate that you made politcal, well done! The EDL, as has displayed time and time again, well atleast the gatecrashing shock troops, that they are not paying antifascist meetings a visit to debate, but to put the shit up of people less up for phyiscal confrontation and judging by some posts here, it's working. That's why these meetings should be safeplaces to enable people to organise, if you want to create a diverse movement to oppose the likes of these.

Other West Yorkshire antifascists have been right to express there misgivings at this blunder. Lets hope at future events security is provided, aswell as the right groups already operating in the area being informed.

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jef costello
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Jul 5 2010 13:46
Charles the hammer wrote:
As for the trade unionists I'll mention one name, Bob Crow. A man who 'fights' for the working class whilst earning over a hundred grand a year http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291378/Union-fatcats-earn-times-average-worker.html There is no way I would get involved with any trade unionist movement when the people at the top are like Mr fat prick.

I'll mention one name, David Cameron, a man who represents the couintry while earning over a hundred grand a year ....There is no way I would get involved with any country when the people at the top are like Mr fat prick.

Just so you know the people at the top like Cameron are more likely to call you a chav than an anarchist because most sensible anarchists recognise that there is a lot of class hatred in that word.

I also think it's interesting that you pick the Daily Mail as your source, this is a paper which consistently defends massive wages for a tiny percentage of the country and then when a union boss doesz the same suddenly finds it outrageous. I'm not defending Crow here, I'm no fan of his but the absolute hypocrisy of attacking him for that boggles my mind.

action_now
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Jul 5 2010 14:16

Appears that yet another article on this situation has been taken off Indymedia- this time a statement by the Antifascist Coalition.

Caiman del Barrio
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Jul 5 2010 14:57
Charles the hammer wrote:
Quote: "charles the hammer, you have stated in the past that the EDL is against ALL left wing organisations and trade unions"

Where have I said this? please give evidence. And to be honest I am personally against all left wing groupings, you live in a different world to the rest of us. I bet it really hurt seeing so many people supporting England during this world cup. Probalbly dismissed all the people with England flags flying from their cars as 'chavs.'

As for the trade unionists I'll mention one name, Bob Crow. A man who 'fights' for the working class whilst earning over a hundred grand a year http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291378/Union-fatcats-earn-times-average-worker.html There is no way I would get involved with any trade unionist movement when the people at the top are like Mr fat prick.

Once again, the EDL have a better critique of the left than the left itself. The confusion and contradiction lies in their exceptionalism over England.

I was thinking about this yesterday and reached the exact same conclusion as Tommy Ascaso, that the EDL is a product of successful policing tactics around the football.

action_now
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Jul 5 2010 15:18
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
Once again, the EDL have a better critique of the left than the left itself. The confusion and contradiction lies in their exceptionalism over England.

I was thinking about this yesterday and reached the exact same conclusion as Tommy Ascaso, that the EDL is a product of successful policing tactics around the football.

I agree that this is the reason for swelling of the EDL base, which is why I don't refer to them as political group, as some people on here are. The BNP are a politcal threat, but then we have the likes of the EDL, who offer there fanbase a good day out and a almost plausible justification for it.
In fact there was a another Casuals United group knocking about a few years ago before disappearing, the name escapes me though.

action_now
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Jul 5 2010 15:17
xurbanpiratedreamerx wrote:
action_now wrote:
Appears that yet another article on this situation has been taken off Indymedia- this time a statement by the Antifascist Coalition.

One troll and his dog?

Eh, you what?
Are you saying that the statement was a fake?

Boris Badenov
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Jul 5 2010 15:38

classic fascist tactic: making it about "freedom of speech" and how "the left" or the multicultural liberals or whatever want to shut everyone up because they're really the fascists.
I think it's time to shed any illusions about the EDL; the fact that they claim to not be racist (oh btw, the BNP have a JEWISH member! Wow, I guess they're really not racist anymore) clearly is nothing but a PR stunt.
And btw, Charles Martel is an icon of the white supremacist movement (see the American Renaissance group in the US), and anyone posting under this name has already made their politics quite clear IMO.

Caiman wrote:
Once again, the EDL have a better critique of the left than the left itself. The confusion and contradiction lies in their exceptionalism over England.

Caiman, no offense, but this is simplistic as fuck. Obviously anyone with half a brain can see what's wrong with the parliamentary left; that don't make it a "critique." The proof is that Simple John Ball here has no problem voting UKIP, for all his criticism of Labour; if he, or any of these fuckwits, had an actual critique of trade unions and the left, they wouldn't be populist ballbags, would they?
Also, to claim that unions are bad because of Bob Crow is just a pathetic red herring, not an actual argument against the trade unions.

Caiman del Barrio
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Jul 5 2010 17:01
Vlad336 wrote:
classic fascist tactic: making it about "freedom of speech" and how "the left" or the multicultural liberals or whatever want to shut everyone up because they're really the fascists.
I think it's time to shed any illusions about the EDL; the fact that they claim to not be racist (oh btw, the BNP have a JEWISH member! Wow, I guess they're really not racist anymore) clearly is nothing but a PR stunt.
And btw, Charles Martel is an icon of the white supremacist movement (see the American Renaissance group in the US), and anyone posting under this name has already made their politics quite clear IMO.
Caiman wrote:
Once again, the EDL have a better critique of the left than the left itself. The confusion and contradiction lies in their exceptionalism over England.

Caiman, no offense, but this is simplistic as fuck. Obviously anyone with half a brain can see what's wrong with the parliamentary left; that don't make it a "critique." The proof is that Simple John Ball here has no problem voting UKIP, for all his criticism of Labour; if he, or any of these fuckwits, had an actual critique of trade unions and the left, they wouldn't be populist ballbags, would they?
Also, to claim that unions are bad because of Bob Crow is just a pathetic red herring, not an actual argument against the trade unions.

Yeah OK so maybe I was being a little bit provocative (being called reactionary by Weeler is pretty lol btw), and I'm not about to jump on the ridiculous apolitical populism of Bonehead, WAG et al and call for infiltration of the EDL, but I maintain that the British left is equally corrupted and infinitely more moribund than the centre and the right. Their attempts to "oppose" the EDL have served to fortify it and provided a useful idiot against which they have legitimised themselves and created a convenient martyr (funny that, there are almost some parallels with fundamentalism Islam!).

Meanwhile, the so called "militant" antifascist alternative is proved - in this episode at least - to be utterly incompetent and incapable of performing the role it's set out to play, without even touching on strategic criticism.

Yorkie Bar
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Jul 5 2010 19:56
Quote:
The Leeds branch of the Anarchist Eederation have little or no history of antifascist activity.

That's not true, and if this statement is from the people I think it's from then they know it.

Quote:
Yet their ambitions to form a new 'militant antifascist alliance' to take on the EDL led them to publically announce such a meeting. Not that they put much effort into advertizing the meeting, and they certainly didn't invite any of the existing antifascist groups operating in West Yorkshire.

That's also untrue.

EDIT: by which I mean it's untrue that the AF didn't invite existing antifascist groups; we did.

Quote:
Bearing in mind the nature of the meeting, and the recent record of the EDL in turning up uninvited to anti-EDL meetings, one might have expected a certain amount of security. As it was, when the meeting was held, on Saturday July 3rd, and despite the AF being tipped off about EDL plans to attend, there was NO SECURITY WHATSOEVER. This appalling negligence allowed a small group of EDL activists to simply walk into the meeting, from which the AF showed no stomach to evict them. The EDL have not stopped crowing since. In one stupid blunderous move Leeds AF have not only handed the EDL an easy victory, they have undermined the hard work put in by real militant antifascists in Leeds over the past two decades.

I wasn't there, but I don't think anyone really gave a shit that the EDL turned up. From what I've heard they pretty much just made idiots of themselves, then left. I don't see how this could be construed as a victory for them, or in what way it undermines the work of other, "real militant" antifascists in the area - since evidently none of them turned up to the meeting anyway.

As I said, I think I've a fairly good idea who wrote this and there is history between them and Leeds AF. Looks like shit-stirring to me.

JoeMaguire's picture
JoeMaguire
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Joined: 26-09-03
Jul 5 2010 18:43

I read the statement by Leeds antifascists as though they were pulling rank and Leeds AF, which is fucking disgusting. Tell them they did it wrong, call them out for it, but making out as though you have a monopoly on organising against the far-right...please roll eyes

action_now
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Joined: 16-02-08
Jul 5 2010 18:55
october_lost wrote:
I read the statement by Leeds antifascists as though they were pulling rank and Leeds AF, which is fucking disgusting. Tell them they did it wrong, call them out for it, but making out as though you have a monopoly on organising against the far-right...please roll eyes

What statement?
There was no statement issued by a group, only individuals in their own capacity. The statement released was by those that called the meeting.

JoeMaguire's picture
JoeMaguire
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Joined: 26-09-03
Jul 5 2010 19:06

Whats this?

Quote:
The Leeds branch of the Anarchist Eederation have little or no history of antifascist activity. Yet their ambitions to form a new 'militant antifascist alliance' to take on the EDL led them to publically announce such a meeting. Not that they put much effort into advertizing the meeting, and they certainly didn't invite any of the existing antifascist groups operating in West Yorkshire. Bearing in mind the nature of the meeting, and the recent record of the EDL in turning up uninvited to anti-EDL meetings, one might have expected a certain amount of security. As it was, when the meeting was held, on Saturday July 3rd, and despite the AF being tipped off about EDL plans to attend, there was NO SECURITY WHATSOEVER. This appalling negligence allowed a small group of EDL activists to simply walk into the meeting, from which the AF showed no stomach to evict them. The EDL have not stopped crowing since. In one stupid blunderous move Leeds AF have not only handed the EDL an easy victory, they have undermined the hard work put in by real militant antifascists in Leeds over the past two decades.
action_now
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Joined: 16-02-08
Jul 5 2010 20:39
october_lost wrote:
Whats this?
Quote:
The Leeds branch of the Anarchist Eederation have little or no history of antifascist activity. Yet their ambitions to form a new 'militant antifascist alliance' to take on the EDL led them to publically announce such a meeting. Not that they put much effort into advertizing the meeting, and they certainly didn't invite any of the existing antifascist groups operating in West Yorkshire. Bearing in mind the nature of the meeting, and the recent record of the EDL in turning up uninvited to anti-EDL meetings, one might have expected a certain amount of security. As it was, when the meeting was held, on Saturday July 3rd, and despite the AF being tipped off about EDL plans to attend, there was NO SECURITY WHATSOEVER. This appalling negligence allowed a small group of EDL activists to simply walk into the meeting, from which the AF showed no stomach to evict them. The EDL have not stopped crowing since. In one stupid blunderous move Leeds AF have not only handed the EDL an easy victory, they have undermined the hard work put in by real militant antifascists in Leeds over the past two decades.

An individuals feelings on the subject posted as an article?
Nowhere has it said that it is the opinion of any group or anyone else other than the authors.

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Farce
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Joined: 21-04-09
Jul 5 2010 20:45

Action now's correct in saying that it isn't put out in the name of any group, though. Until a statement turns up clearly in the name of one group, anything like that should just be read as the opinions of individuals.

EDIT: oop, cross-posted, my point still stands though.

Luther Blissett
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Jul 6 2010 16:17
Quote:
Moreover, there's a real risk of EDL managing to disassociate themselves from the far right

There's no danger of this happening anytime in the next year or so. There's enough concrete evidence that some so-called 'leaders' and some prominent members do associate with the far-right and also some proscribed terrorist groups.

Taking arch-gatecrasher Mr. Martel/Hammer as our first example, he openly associates himself with the UDA's front-group BUA.

gypsy
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Joined: 20-09-09
Jul 6 2010 16:51
Luther Blissett wrote:
Quote:
Moreover, there's a real risk of EDL managing to disassociate themselves from the far right

There's no danger of this happening anytime in the next year or so. There's enough concrete evidence that some so-called 'leaders' and some prominent members do associate with the far-right and also some proscribed terrorist groups.

Taking arch-gatecrasher Mr. Martel/Hammer as our first example, he openly associates himself with the UDA's front-group BUA.

Not surprising. What does BUA stand for? I do think some in the EDL are trying to disassociate themselves with the far right. I mean there is definetly alot of white nationalists who can't stand the EDL especially after attacking them awhile back in london with one WN being hospitalised and for their support of Israel etc, working with 'muds' and other races(although these members are mostly token members I reckon). Although that does not mean that the EDL are not racists just not as extreme as the WN fascists. I would call them racist nationalists. If that is not too simplistic.