London Militant Atheists

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oisleep
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Jan 4 2006 13:25

ftony
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Jan 4 2006 13:35
Quote:
Is that your hand trying to keep all your fucking ridiculous lies in?

yowser guys chill out

in any case, in my opinion it is really important to judge tactics according to different situations, but generally it's worth having a bit of both that are mutually respectful of each other.

of course the last bit of that is the tricky part...

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Jan 4 2006 13:37
Jack wrote:
Is that your hand trying to keep all your fucking ridiculous lies in?

but some beef on the bone and spit them out then, tells us what these fucking ridicolous lies are?

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Jan 4 2006 13:41
revol68 wrote:

oisleep the disdain for the IWCA is the fact that they don't represent a viable alternative.

maybe not for the student/young idealists, but for people in a community who want their bins emptied & dog shite cleared up, who are you to deny them that on the basis of some great plan you've dreamed up in your bedroom that's even further away from a viable alternative as it never goes past your bedroom door

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mean essentially self managed working class ghettoes.

imagine the fuckers having the nerve to self manage themselves in the interim whilst they're waiting for you to get of your arse and liberate them

all your rhetoric espouses self management and organisation for the working class, but god help us if we actually try a little of it

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Jan 4 2006 13:57
Tommy Ascaso wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what you meant, I think direct action can achieve more, but that's not why I'd prefer to be in a group which espouses it. It's because it's a key part of my politics, people taking action directly to improve their lives. The kind of society I'd like to see, one run from below, is only possible if people are able to take control of their lives, and I don't think getting counciller's elected or standing for London mayor is taking us any closer to that society.

yes i understand you, so do you think that everything the IWCA does and direct action are totally seperate mutually exclusive things, you don't see any role whatsoever of the IWCA in facilitating and raising the issue of self organisation, you see them 100% purely as an electoral vehicle?

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Jan 4 2006 13:59
revol68 wrote:

Anyway by your definition meals on wheels is a revolutionary project.

if a group of people get together to organise feeding each other, what's the harm in that? why wrap it up in labels as to what it is rather than concentrate on just providing a solution to a need?

i don't understand where you get that assertion from anyway

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Jan 4 2006 14:09

Hi

As long as LMA are enjoying themselves and give off a positive vibe then good luck to 'em. That's effective enough in my book.

Most seriously powerful religions can be thwarted with a bit of bukkake, apart from maybe Shinto.

Love

LR

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Jan 4 2006 14:10
Jack wrote:
oisleep wrote:
but some beef on the bone and spit them out then, tells us what these fucking ridicolous lies are?

Your 'disdain for the IWCA' bullshit.

Apart from revol, almost everyone on here is supportive/sympathetic to the IWCA. Which you knew anyway, I don't really know why I'm bothering to play your stupid games.

if that's true then i take it back, perhaps this just shows how one boy's jumping up and down shreeking & shouting about stuff clouds some of the more tangible good stuff that goes on here

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Jan 4 2006 14:23

Hi

Look, I'm trying to change the subject to Shinto. Shinto and Bukkake.

Who's with me?

Love

LR

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Jan 4 2006 21:04
Jack wrote:

And you seem pretty apt at seeking out his threads anyway, so maybe you get a distorted picture.

his threads?

can you explain what you mean by this? what exactly are his threads? and why would anyone have to 'seek out' his posts when he has the highest amount of posts on this entire site bar one? (yet in my memory i can't remember him every actually starting a thread)

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Jan 4 2006 21:43

ah i see, i didn't know they were his threads

do you think i'm the only person who manages to seek out such instances?

nosos
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Jan 9 2006 11:48

So did anyone from LMA actually answer the 'what do you hope to achieve?' question?

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Jan 9 2006 20:07

What a fun thread, how did I miss it?

Nice to see a good discussion opening people's eyes* and helping move class struggle forward rather than a bunch of people just throwing insults

*perhaps not the people at LR's shinto bukkake parties.

On a serious note the UCKG where I live is fraudulently collecting donations for "charity" and is taking advantage of the weakest members of society, several of the bucket rattlers seemed to be actually mentally ill, and I'm not being bitchy here.

They target immigrants, especially young isolated ones, I'm white and I never get offered religious leaflets. It could also be because I'm quite big and can look scary to strangers. Plus you only need to look at Victoria Climbie case and several others to realise why something needs to be done. I don't think haranguing religious people is effective, but nI think someone setting people by a UCKG bucket rattler setting people straight might help. Before anyone tells me that charity is bourgeois study after study in this country has proven that working class people are the most generous and there is almost, but not quite an inverse relatio between the amount of money people have and the amount that they give.

If I could rattle off words this fast for my essay I'd be sorted.

bootboy
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Jan 25 2006 15:50

Wow, havent checked back at this for a while - it seems like twats have ruined a good idea. So... Is anyone actually going to answer, i.e the forum author - "WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS GOING?" It would help if u knew u know! violet black star

Jason Cortez
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Jan 27 2006 19:00

i would be up for taking actionagainst the child abusing, money laundering,swindling cult, UCKG. (well down this way)

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Jan 27 2006 20:47
Jason Cortez wrote:
i would be up for taking actionagainst the child abusing, money laundering,swindling cult, UCKG. (well down this way)

I'll second that.

GGG
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Oct 12 2006 06:01

Hi Shorty!
I hope you still have a lot of time on your hands and would like to do something very productive, so please find some of my new ideas:
- please do a very good research on child abuse (physical, sexual and mental) and find out who are mainly the abusers. You will be suprised to see that many abusers come from different religions and backgrounds ( not only Catholic) and many of them are the ones who don't believe in God. Pedophilia is a human illness that doesn't choose a religion and those who truly believe in God would never do that.
-have you ever wondered why you only hear about Catholic priests and not about other religious leaders? Do you know what Catholic religion stands for? Who controls media?. Please check it.
-in one of your notes you wrote about ex-wife who got your kids baptized and about the "evil priests". Do you believe in evil?. I agree with you that those who commit any kind of crime are evil, including those priests. If evil is here then you also need to agree with me that God is present.
- please visit some jails and talk to some inmates if you really want to see a part of evil. You will have a better understanding if evil trully exists, what evil is all about and how it affects people, you will feel its presence.
- please do some voluntary work in shelters, soup kitchens for the homeless, etc. to feel God's presence. You will see what God is all about and then draw your own conclusions.

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Oct 12 2006 07:15

i think you'll find that where you feel a transcendent god's presence, anarchists feel the very material human bonds of solidarity and mutual aid, and we don't (generally, there are religious anarchists) feel the need to invent a deity to justify our ethical action. We'd also be skeptical of labelling prisoners in general as 'evil', as most prisoners (75%+?) are not even convicted of violence, and many of those that are acted in the same way a 'non-evil' person would have under the same circumstances. judge not, lest ye be judged circle A wink

GGG
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Oct 12 2006 18:42

Hi Joseph,
Thank you for responding to my note. I just want to let you know that you completely misunderstood me:

1) I didn't mean to ask you to experience human bonds of solidarity and mutual aid by being among suffering and hungry and calling it God. The experiences you described are very little and superficial. I have been there on both sides, have you? Please try it if you have a chance to see what I mean. When you're there be very open-minded, very observent , ask many questions, and don't ever forget that one day you may be in their shoes.
2) I am not labelling all prisoners to be evil but I was talking about the place itself (prison) and the forces that bring these individuals to commit horrible crimes. That's why I suggested to talk to the prisoners and find out from them what they think and what they know. Have you ever heard a prisoner describing what happened to him/her, why they did what they did. I have, I've been there. Also, I know that there are many people who are suffering there for wrong reasons. I don't know if you realize that it is also an art work of evil.
3) I didn't ask " Shorty" or you to "invent a deity" to justify ethical actions. I asked you to look deeper and experience it before making any definite statements about your belief. I don't know if you are aware that every reasonably intellectual person would try to investigate before making any definite and cruel statements. It may sound very harsh but I always try to say the truth.
4) I would never judge anyone, this is not what I do. However, I don't know if you are aware that the sentence you used at the end:
"...judge not, lest ye be judged" are famous words used often by evil to justify its action and trying to prevent others from questioning it. Please forgive me if you think that I am labelling you, that's not my intention at all, but it is true. Please do some more investigation. I'tell you one thing, the older and wiser I get I pay more attention to what people do and not what they say, I personally experience and investigate life, and then I draw my own conclusions.
I have a degree in science, and trust me that every day I am more and more convinced about God's presence. However, I'm trying to understand why some people are so easily and without any fundamentals convinced otherwise, why they blame God for bad things that happen to them or completely deny HIM, why they condem those who try to work for God for things they choose to do themselves (eg. child abuse) with evil influence, and why they treat those who believe or try to believe poorly and very unfriendly. God's teachings are all about love and not evil acts, so just imagine the world without these people. I won't be able to answer to any of your responses any more, so please just think about it.

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Oct 12 2006 18:48

well, i'm not going to get into a rational debate about the existence of god, since it's a non-falsifiable claim of faith, though sorry i misunderstood you.

but as far as i'm concerned transendental beliefs tend to reduce material existence to a means to a higher end, devaluing life (gandhi being a prime example). and yeah, i judge and am judged all the time, on my part at least judgement is always provisional though. give god my best and tell him since he exists it is neccessary to abolish him wink

GGG
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Oct 13 2006 01:38

Joseph, YOU MAID ME LAUGH so I decided to respond again. As you have heard there is devil ( in the form of money) and God, and you cannot serve two masters at the same time. You need some money to survive but you cannot make the money to be your primary focus in life. Have you seen what usually money does to people, how it can destroy their life, how it brings out the worst animal instincts in them. I would not worry so much about the "higher end". Have you met anyone who died and took his assets to the grave, I haven't. As you noticed it takes a lot of time, effort and money to build something nice but a few seconds to destroy it, is it worth worring about or attaching your heart to it? It seems that you would like to be a good game player in life and joke a lot, so do I. I am the player who looks AHEAD, tries to play the game fairly and honestly , doesn't burn bridges, doen't play with "FIRE", and at the end of life can say :" I've done my best and I am ready" without any fear of what is on the other side. How about you?

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Oct 13 2006 05:46

i thought the love of money was the root of all evil? i mean, i know money and commodity relations are rubbish, which is why i'm a (libertarian) communist. There's certainly something to be said about not over-investing yourself in possessions, but people can die/leave too, and i wouldn't suggest closing yourself off from others to protect yourself from potential loss anymore than i'd suggest asceticism.

i do try to live without fear of what is on the other side - nothing wink - thats why i really have to make the most of life since there's no eternity afterwards . Do you think you could say "i am ready" if you didn't believe there was something beyond? It's certainly difficult, but i don't want to go to my deathbed with regrets precisely because this world is all there is.

Jason Cortez
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Oct 13 2006 11:58
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Have you seen what usually money does to people, how it can destroy their life, how it brings out the worst animal instincts in them.

You mean worst human traits surely. As much as i try i can't get an animal other than a human to do anything much for money beyond a crude Palovian association between the sight of money and some dribble on the floor.

Why don't animals have souls?

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Oct 13 2006 15:20

there was a study i saw which tried to get chimpanzees to do tasks for payment with bananas (ok a direct use-value and not the universal equivalent, but hey). they went on strike when one got paid more for the same work, and attacked scabs cool

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Oct 13 2006 16:00

Is it me or does GGG sound like a 419 scammer?

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Joseph Kay
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Oct 13 2006 16:03

did i miss the bit where he offered me 10 grand if i give him a ton? :?

(i've never actually read one of those emails mind)

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Oct 13 2006 16:58
Joseph K. wrote:
did i miss the bit where he offered me 10 grand if i give him a ton? :?

(i've never actually read one of those emails mind)

I meant the way that he writes. Perhaps business is slow today. They do target yank churches though.

Jason Cortez
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Oct 13 2006 17:33
jef costello wrote:
Is it me or does GGG sound like a 419 scammer?

Is this some sort of machine responce sortware, (i.e. proving AI) or what? I juat ain't up with technokids.

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Oct 13 2006 17:38

it's a famous email scam known as 'the 419', iirc because that's the section of the nigerian penal code which covers it, and most of the scammers are nigerian.

basically you get an email saying some millionaire needs to get his cash out of the country via a third party's account (yours). you are promised a hefty cut of the transaction, and all you have to do is pay the bank's 'admin fees' which have to be paid by the recipient account holder ...

GGG
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Oct 13 2006 18:53

Many "scholers" in this world have tired to come up with different theories how to resolve the problem of inheritance that brings very big financial division among people and all other problems associated with it. So far, they haven't found anything, and the religion is the biggest force that slows it down. Recently, I've seen a family that is waiting for rich grandma to die. I heard a comment: " I wish grandma was dead already because I can't wait much longer, I need the money".
I see that you are very convinced about the lack of eternity and I wonder how you base your belief. Since no human being ever landed on the Sun, does it mean that there is no life there? If you had a friend who told you that was close to the Sun and saw sins of life but couldn't bring you any samples, would you still be convinced 100% that it's not true or would you rather seek evidence? Would you still spread the story in the whole world that you know there is no life on the Sun and that your friend is mistaken?. Just think about it.