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London Militant Atheists

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shortygoldtooth
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Joined: 16-11-05
Nov 16 2005 12:26
London Militant Atheists

Hi all.

I am exploring the idea of reducing the influence of religion on our society and am interested to find if any other militant athiests would like to help explore this with me. I don't have a plan as such at the moment, I am thinking more along the lines of what could be done and what could be achieved. I would very much appreciate your input and any support.

In my area for instance, the local shopping precinct is overun with religious people preching, singing and uttering offensive remarks about gays, women and of course all other religions other than their own. I would like to take things further than simply (as I do now) standing close by them pointing out the inconsitencies in their logic. Perhaps it's possible to come up with tactics to make life hard for them to spread their viewpoint?

I have considered leafletting churches and other places of worship, encouraging schools to drop daily acts of collective worship, researching the history of religous officials and publicising any "venal" acts they may have committed.

What do you think?

Want to contribute?

May God not be with you.

Nikos
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Joined: 30-09-05
Nov 16 2005 15:11

I think its a bloody brilliant idea, religion, if it has to exist at all, should be kept private and not forced down peoples throats. The other week mormons were in ipswich town centre trying to convert this carribean woman - naturally they forgot to tell her that they believe only white people can go to heaven.

The way they inflict their crap on children from such a young age is fucking appalling. We shouldn't tolerate it.

I'm up for contribution, just tell me more!

violet black star

Con Carroll
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Joined: 18-11-04
Nov 16 2005 15:34

I am living in Dublin

I have expierence with other survivors of child abuse in actions against church.

you have my support

MalFunction
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Joined: 31-10-03
Nov 16 2005 16:21

greets

might be worth trying the national secular society

they have a weekly e-mail newsletter

(not just for members)

you could possibly put something in there?

nss website here:

http://www.secularism.org.uk/

shortygoldtooth
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Joined: 16-11-05
Nov 16 2005 17:42

Excellent, we have a start. thanks peeps, given the ex wife has baptized my kids catholic, I also need help finding out more about evil priests, the two things go hand in hand.

I will follow up the suggestions, watch this space! smile

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 16 2005 17:50

Freedom reported not so long ago that the secular or athiest society as an all time low membership, you could chase them up, rather than creating yet another organisation.

petey
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Nov 16 2005 19:49
Nikos wrote:
The other week mormons were in ipswich town centre trying to convert this carribean woman - naturally they forgot to tell her that they believe only white people can go to heaven.

well, no they don't. they had a revelation, you see.

Thora
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Nov 16 2005 20:06
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Excellent, we have a start. thanks peeps, given the ex wife has baptized my kids catholic, I also need help finding out more about evil priests, the two things go hand in hand.

I'm a Catholic. We rock 8)

shortygoldtooth
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Nov 17 2005 09:23
Thora wrote:
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Excellent, we have a start. thanks peeps, given the ex wife has baptized my kids catholic, I also need help finding out more about evil priests, the two things go hand in hand.

I'm a Catholic. We rock 8)

You are just a very bad girl. And will go into limbo or was that abolished??!!

Nikos
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Nov 18 2005 10:19
newyawka wrote:
Nikos wrote:
The other week mormons were in ipswich town centre trying to convert this carribean woman - naturally they forgot to tell her that they believe only white people can go to heaven.

well, no they don't. they had a revelation, you see.

Had a revelation my arse, the only revelation they had was when they realised that if they didn't shut the fuck up with their racist crap they would all get beaten the shit out of. violet black star

Nikos
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Nov 18 2005 10:26
october_lost wrote:
Freedom reported not so long ago that the secular or athiest society as an all time low membership, you could chase them up, rather than creating yet another organisation.

It looks really shit, i think a new organisation should be started. one that based on anarchist principles would help.

MalFunction
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Joined: 31-10-03
Nov 18 2005 11:06

greets

shorty - this the sort of info you're looking for?

Silence and secrecy at school where child sex abuse went on for decades

Yesterday's revelations cast a cloud over the late Cardinal Hume's former role at a top Catholic college

Ian Cobain

Friday November 18, 2005

The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/story/0,7369,1645438,00.html

Nikos
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Nov 18 2005 11:10

Where do u see this going?

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 18 2005 17:13
Nikos wrote:
october_lost wrote:
Freedom reported not so long ago that the secular or athiest society as an all time low membership, you could chase them up, rather than creating yet another organisation.

It looks really shit, i think a new organisation should be started. one that based on anarchist principles would help.

'Anarchist Principles' confused we dont want to get watered down with the proles dont you know......

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cantdocartwheels
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Nov 18 2005 21:53
shortygoldtooth wrote:

I have considered leafletting churches and other places of worship, encouraging schools to drop daily acts of collective worship, researching the history of religous officials and publicising any "venal" acts they may have committed.

What do you think?.

I think you sound like an embarrassingly mad anarchist version of peter tatchell.

shortygoldtooth
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Nov 21 2005 10:10
cantdocartwheels wrote:
shortygoldtooth wrote:

I have considered leafletting churches and other places of worship, encouraging schools to drop daily acts of collective worship, researching the history of religous officials and publicising any "venal" acts they may have committed.

What do you think?.

I think you sound like an embarrassingly mad anarchist version of peter tatchell.

I think you are right!

I need to find a way forward without coming across like Mr Tatchell. That is why I am discussing this rather than just acting. Thanks for the criticism though, spot on. smile

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the button
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Nov 21 2005 10:42

Maybe a way to start would be to look at how many vacant or run-down properties are being bought up or "developed" by some of the more sinister, cult-like "new" churches, like the vile UKGC (United Kingdom of God Church). I know an anarchist group in London (Walthamstow Anarchists or North London SolFed -- can't remember confused ) leafletted and campaigned around this issue.

This same UKGC does "charity" bucket collections around London (certainly they're at it in Catford), as a cover for their activities.

shortygoldtooth
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Nov 21 2005 10:44

Maybe pick a soft target like the Scientologists to start with? The gits had a market type stall in Croydon on Sunday... Free stress tests my arse..

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the button
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Nov 21 2005 10:49
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Maybe pick a soft target like the Scientologists

Soft, but incredibly litigious.

Plus you wouldn't have the opportunity to use the great Bill Hicks one-liner: "You're a Christian. Fucking forgive me." wink

Nick Durie
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Joined: 12-09-04
Nov 21 2005 11:03

Just had an altercation down our local 'independent evangelical' church which culminated in this fucking fruitloop blessing myself and my partner in crime... Fucking mental - you couldn't make this shit up.

shortygoldtooth
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Nov 21 2005 11:20

Tell us more!

Nick Durie
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Nov 21 2005 11:39

was standing at the exit to a church on a sunday helping some folk out distrubuting an anti-war leaflet aimed at Xians. The wee pastor guy called over some people and then the secretary plus some elder woman came and told us to piss off, etc. blah blah. Comrade tried to reason with them, saying that we were trying to promote Xian values (leaflet banged on about 6th commandment and the indiscriminate targetting of civilians by occupation forces) and a talk that is taking place. Secretary just said it could be anything - it could be promoting Islam, because it's an anti-war leaflet. OK the racism that statement implies was pretty bad but entirely predictable, but then things took a funny turn when...

The elder then read that the talk was taking place at a hall at a university, and demanded the names of the organisers as this was her university and we were bringing it, the unversity, into by holding an anti-war talk then. Comrade then rightly questioned quite why these two were being so full-on and aggressive. This elder woman then became increasingly aggressive about how it was her university and she would do everything in her power to shut this talk down because we were attacking the university by holding this talk there. Absolute nuts. After she'd sent comrade away in exasperation and emotion she started screaming hallyluyahs at her and blessing us for our sins. It was absolutely mad.

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cantdocartwheels
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Nov 28 2005 11:27
shortygoldtooth wrote:
cantdocartwheels wrote:
shortygoldtooth wrote:

I have considered leafletting churches and other places of worship, encouraging schools to drop daily acts of collective worship, researching the history of religous officials and publicising any "venal" acts they may have committed.

What do you think?.

I think you sound like an embarrassingly mad anarchist version of peter tatchell.

I think you are right!

I need to find a way forward without coming across like Mr Tatchell. That is why I am discussing this rather than just acting. Thanks for the criticism though, spot on. :)

Well ok i wouldn't bother with what you're doing because i don't see religion as being a particularly dominant part oif society in england, and because i'm not an athiest and don't see 'beleif' as some sort of indomitable enemy of humanity.

However, if you were to criticise things firstly i would not call yourselves 'london militant athiests', and secondly i would not criticise beleif. If you wish to criticise organised religion you need to point out the differences between what it purports to be and what it actually is rather than going on a self righteous rant about how people who take comfort in beleif are deluding themselves. Afterall the latter stance is as pointless than preaching tolerance in a pub, since we all have ways of dealing with life. The phrase 'opiate of the people' is as it happens quite literally applicable.

For an example, my gran lived most of her life on church owned property in southwark. The rent was kept low in order to provide dockers and their families with accomadation. Schools in the area were also often run by the local parish. Now the church is in debt to the tune of 800 million due to its dubious investments overseas it intends to sell its properties in southwark off to private property developers who will drive up rents forcing older tenants out.

Now going in and criticising the concept of beleif in this case would just be pointless, especially since many of the older tnenants are quite religious anyway. The point is to show the church synod to be hypocrites and moneymen and show how they differ from ideas of christian asceticism. However thia invloves expressing some admiration for ''original christian ideals'', yet it is clearly the best way forward for the tenants campaign rather than just attacking the notion of religion outright wihich they wopuld neither wish nor need to do.

I still don't see religion as a particularly big issue though, because with the exception of isolated incidents and areas it does not dominate english culture.

shortygoldtooth
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Dec 6 2005 10:43

Well given your intimation that you belive in God, this thread is not for you!

grin

Grace
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Dec 6 2005 11:54
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Well given your intimation that you belive in God, this thread is not for you!

grin

I don't think he came across anywhere as believing in God, and besides that wasn't his main point. In the example he gave, going in and being all "militantly atheist" would get you absolutely nowhere. Besides, a large proportion of people in this country don't really give much of a shit about religion anyway. From reading the thread it seems your issue is with what organised religion does, like corruption within the church or whatever, rather than the notion of belief itself, so maybe campaigning as 'atheists' wouldn't do you many favours. Even religious people can disgree with the way religion is run and the things that religion does, so you'd probably get more support from your average religious person if you didn't go in raving at them.

shortygoldtooth
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Dec 6 2005 16:24
Grace wrote:
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Well given your intimation that you belive in God, this thread is not for you!

grin

I don't think he came across anywhere as believing in God, and besides that wasn't his main point. In the example he gave, going in and being all "militantly atheist" would get you absolutely nowhere. Besides, a large proportion of people in this country don't really give much of a shit about religion anyway. From reading the thread it seems your issue is with what organised religion does, like corruption within the church or whatever, rather than the notion of belief itself, so maybe campaigning as 'atheists' wouldn't do you many favours. Even religious people can disgree with the way religion is run and the things that religion does, so you'd probably get more support from your average religious person if you didn't go in raving at them.

I want to attack faith as well. Get people to wake up and use their brains and insult them if they refuse.

Grace
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Dec 6 2005 20:28
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Grace wrote:
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Well given your intimation that you belive in God, this thread is not for you!

grin

I don't think he came across anywhere as believing in God, and besides that wasn't his main point. In the example he gave, going in and being all "militantly atheist" would get you absolutely nowhere. Besides, a large proportion of people in this country don't really give much of a shit about religion anyway. From reading the thread it seems your issue is with what organised religion does, like corruption within the church or whatever, rather than the notion of belief itself, so maybe campaigning as 'atheists' wouldn't do you many favours. Even religious people can disgree with the way religion is run and the things that religion does, so you'd probably get more support from your average religious person if you didn't go in raving at them.

I want to attack faith as well. Get people to wake up and use their brains and insult them if they refuse.

With such a mature approach I doubt we'll have to wait long before the entire country becomes secular roll eyes

shortygoldtooth
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Dec 7 2005 12:39

Yeah well Grace, perhaps a more mature approach might be to write endless diatribes on message boards that few people read... Would this work? No, like fuck it would.

At least I am getting off my arse and doing something. circle A twisted

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Lazy Riser
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Dec 7 2005 13:23

Hi

What about all those losers who espouse all that merciful-family-values-love-thy-neighbour twaddle but remain secular? The British Humanist Association and the National Secular Society are easily as bad as the Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Rastas.

In fact they’re worse, they’re all stick and no carrot. Irrational notions of metaphysical morality abound, self hatred and authoritarian conditioning creating strung out value systems that reward sacrifice over performance.

Love

LR

Grace
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Dec 7 2005 15:18
shortygoldtooth wrote:
Yeah well Grace, perhaps a more mature approach might be to write endless diatribes on message boards that few people read... Would this work? No, like fuck it would.

At least I am getting off my arse and doing something. circle A twisted

No, not at all. Good on you for 'doing something' but really, ranting at people and insulting them if they refuse? Jeez, religious people are gonna think you're nutty enough just for being atheists, without you taking that approach... It's all well and good doing something about it, but by being so immature you'd pretty much fail before you'd even started.

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Steven.
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Dec 7 2005 15:46
Grace wrote:
No, not at all. Good on you for 'doing something' but really, ranting at people and insulting them if they refuse? Jeez, religious people are gonna think you're nutty enough just for being atheists, without you taking that approach... It's all well and good doing something about it, but by being so immature you'd pretty much fail before you'd even started.

While I think religion is stupid, and people with religious beliefs also pretty stupid, Grace is right here. Ranting or insulting people with "faith" doesn't achieve anything...