thon last UFC

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Choccy's picture
Choccy
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Jan 5 2012 23:05
thon last UFC

I hadn't stayed up to watch a live UFC in about 2yrs, usuually wait for sites like pancrase.org or mma-core.com to put them up the next day.

Was hoping Overeem would smash Brock big time and he did. Brock caved much quicker than I imagined. I mean fuck, if I'd had 12inches of colon removed I'd be noweher fuckin near a ring, but I hated Lesnar's fights so won't miss him.

Ovedreem v Dos Santos will be a good fight.

Diaz Cerrone was good too. Cerrone really should have capitalised on his leg kicks, or at least been more sustained with them, putting Nate Diaz on his ass about 5 times is no mean feat.
Hendricks knock out was a shock!

Anyone else watch

bastarx
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Jan 6 2012 06:11

Yes. Was sweet except I feel sad for Fitch. I know he fights boring but I met him in Thailand a few years ago and he's a really nice guy. Now he'll have to win 10 straight fights to be even talked about in regards to a title fight but they won't give him good opponents because they won't want to derail more exciting fighters.

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Jan 6 2012 18:01

Overeem kicked him so hard he retired. One of the most brutal bodyshots I've seen in a while, coming off knees to the body too. After major surgery. Ouch.

The JDS fight should be a war, hopefully we'll see a bit more of the classic Dutch Muay Thai Overeem. He won't be able to pick his shots as freely as he did with Lesnar.

There's a good analysis of how Overeem modifies his stance based on his fight strategy here:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/overeems-stance-why-he-looked-slower-tonight-gifs-included-1947991/

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Jan 6 2012 18:08

Strange, I've never really viewed Overeem as having a classic Dutch kichboxing stylke, especially since he bulked up. Even in K1 his style looked like an extremely reduced Dutch style as opposed to classic. Although given his last 11 fights have gone about 35mins combined, it's fair to say it's hard to analyse stylistically!

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Jan 7 2012 20:33

I was quite surprised that Diaz beat Cerrone. Thought it would be pretty lopsided, but not the way it turned out. Didn't see the Fitch K.O. coming; I was expecting 3 rounds of grappling.

Although Overweem owned Lesnar, I don't think he's got a chance against JDS. Tbh, beating Lesnar wasn't that impressive because Lesnar just looked like he didn't want to be in the octagon and didn't want to get hit. And Overeem's fight before that in Strikeforce was really really poor.

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Jan 8 2012 00:28

duly noted and ignored

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 06:29
Choccy wrote:
I hadn't stayed up to watch a live UFC in about 2yrs, usuually wait for sites like pancrase.org or mma-core.com to put them up the next day.

Was hoping Overeem would smash Brock big time and he did. Brock caved much quicker than I imagined. I mean fuck, if I'd had 12inches of colon removed I'd be noweher fuckin near a ring, but I hated Lesnar's fights so won't miss him.

Ovedreem v Dos Santos will be a good fight.

Diaz Cerrone was good too. Cerrone really should have capitalised on his leg kicks, or at least been more sustained with them, putting Nate Diaz on his ass about 5 times is no mean feat.
Hendricks knock out was a shock!

Anyone else watch

Actually I find kick-boxing quite artless and resembling a tiff between arachnids! An orthodox boxer can handle most kickers and wrestlers easily.

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Jan 8 2012 14:19
batswill wrote:
Actually I find kick-boxing quite artless and resembling a tiff between arachnids! An orthodox boxer can handle most kickers and wrestlers easily.

As demonstrated by James Toney against Randy Couture roll eyes

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Jan 8 2012 16:37

1-0 to Partybucket

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Jan 8 2012 18:51

Im not denigrating boxing, I used to box, I know its effectiveness. If I remember, Couture declined to take on Tomey in a straight boxing re-match, since he knew that was Tomeys game, and he'd be superior in that situation. This art vs that art is a pointless debate without reference to the person; at what level to they practice their particular discipline? Is the type of art that takes years to get to a high level? etc.

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Jan 8 2012 19:10

Exactly, this was an argument settled in the 1990s. All these 'arts'/disciplines are separate sports. No one is 'better' than another in terms of their utility for MMA.

Couture knows Toney would kill him in a straight boxing match, which shows Couture's high level of respect for pure boxers. A respect that Toney clearly did not reciprocate to MMA fighters and had to be demonstrated to him. Couture took him down with an ankle pick, a takedown that he acknowledged he would NEVER get away with on a wrestler but easily applied to a boxer.

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Jan 8 2012 19:42

Yeah, Toney was pathetic in that fight. Especially considering all the smack talk prior to the fight.

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 20:10
PartyBucket wrote:
batswill wrote:
Actually I find kick-boxing quite artless and resembling a tiff between arachnids! An orthodox boxer can handle most kickers and wrestlers easily.

As demonstrated by James Toney against Randy Couture roll eyes

You know that Toney was a partially recuperated fat addict and Couture had a reach advantage. But anyway, neither of these fighters were top of any rankings.
I was thinking more about a hypothetical match in the 90s such as Tyson vs Couture, lol, we know how that would have ended.

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 20:13
Choccy wrote:
1-0 to Partybucket

1-2

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Jan 8 2012 20:34
batswill wrote:
PartyBucket wrote:
batswill wrote:
Actually I find kick-boxing quite artless and resembling a tiff between arachnids! An orthodox boxer can handle most kickers and wrestlers easily.

As demonstrated by James Toney against Randy Couture roll eyes

You know that Toney was a partially recuperated fat addict and Couture had a reach advantage. But anyway, neither of these fighters were top of any rankings.
I was thinking more about a hypothetical match in the 90s such as Tyson vs Couture, lol, we know how that would have ended.

Do we? Would Tyson have known how to deal with leg kicks? Takedowns? Clinches that the referee doesnt break after a few seconds?
I think the fact that you believe all the 'This style vs That style' shows that you dont really know what youre talking about. Its been described as reducing martial arts to Rock, Paper, Scissors - which is pretty apt.
Youre giving nothing any context whatsoever...for example your assertion that the boxer is king is true for example in a crowded bar, where a kicker has no room to kick and a wrestler no room to take someone down....and thats before all the previous stuff pointed out about the individuals experience, ability level etc.
Not sure what the score is now, I think you got hit in the face with the ball and had to get carried off.

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 20:44
PartyBucket wrote:
batswill wrote:
PartyBucket wrote:
batswill wrote:
Actually I find kick-boxing quite artless and resembling a tiff between arachnids! An orthodox boxer can handle most kickers and wrestlers easily.

As demonstrated by James Toney against Randy Couture roll eyes

You know that Toney was a partially recuperated fat addict and Couture had a reach advantage. But anyway, neither of these fighters were top of any rankings.
I was thinking more about a hypothetical match in the 90s such as Tyson vs Couture, lol, we know how that would have ended.

Do we? Would Tyson have known how to deal with leg kicks? Takedowns? Clinches that the referee doesnt break after a few seconds?
I think the fact that you believe all the 'This style vs That style' shows that you dont really know what youre talking about. Its been described as reducing martial arts to Rock, Paper, Scissors - which is pretty apt.
Not sure what the score is now, I think you got hit in the face with the ball and had to get carried off.

Well at least there is a glaringly obvious flaw to the dichotomy about 'style' which you have introduced, and that you think striking below the belt is acceptable. You DO understand that pulling out a concealed weapon or tactic is defined as 'cheating' don't you? No, I ducked and weaved over the ball thrown at my face and delivered a devastating right chop to the temple, just as the kick-boxer was momentarily on one foot about to kick, which I anticipated from the slightest flicker of the eye-lid, catching him off balance.

1-9 victory by KO to batswill

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Jan 8 2012 20:57
batswill wrote:
Well at least there is a glaringly obvious flaw to the dichotomy about 'style' which you have introduced, and that you think striking below the belt is acceptable. You DO understand that pulling out a concealed weapon or tactic is defined as 'cheating' don't you?

In Muay Thai, and many codes of kickboxing, leg kicks are obviously legal. In Muay Thai you can strike on the bladder, and up until about 15 years ago headbutts in the ring were legal.
Also, how can I know whats 'cheating' when once again you refuse to give any context?
Is this fight in a ring? a cage? If so what are the rules? MMA? K1? Or is it in the the street?
Here, whats better, A CHIMP or DIRTY BOXING?
STREET FIGHTING or A BEAR?
CAPOEIRA or AN ALLIGATOR?

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 21:05
PartyBucket wrote:
batswill wrote:
Well at least there is a glaringly obvious flaw to the dichotomy about 'style' which you have introduced, and that you think striking below the belt is acceptable. You DO understand that pulling out a concealed weapon or tactic is defined as 'cheating' don't you?

In Muay Thai, and many codes of kickboxing, leg kicks are obviously legal. In Muay Thai you can strike on the bladder, and up until about 15 years ago headbutts in the ring were legal.
Also, how can I know whats 'cheating' when once again you refuse to give any context?
Is this fight in a ring? a cage? If so what are the rules? MMA? K1? Or is it in the the street?
Here, whats better, A CHIMP or DIRTY BOXING?

Splitting hairs now?! If you are suggesting that headbutting was once legal, and insist on rules to define a context at the same time, I'm afraid that even psychologically you are defeated. I just king-hit your ego.
I am in the context of scientific physics.

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Jan 8 2012 21:14

Im not 'suggesting' it was once legal. its just a fact that it was, and I think still is in Burmese boxing, which is very similar to Muay Thai. The reason we need to define a context is that context or circumstance can be a crucial factor in whether or not a technique is effective or applicable (or allowed).
e.g., your hypothetical Tyson-Couture encounter....are you saying now Couture couldnt leg-kick? If so then its not the style vs. style 'proof' you want in the first place since one style would be restricted from using their full range of techniques.
"Lets pit boxing against Kickboxing, but the Kickboxer isnt allowed to kick."

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 21:36

Just the blatant bias, of using 2 arms/elbows i.e. 4, +2 legs/knees i.e. 4 = 8 against someone using 2 fists =2.
I am going into a metaphorical context to consider this from another perspective.

An arachnid like a daddy long legs vs the praying mantis.

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Jan 8 2012 21:54

So, basically, youre admitting that Muay Thai gives the practitioner more weapons than boxing.
This still doesnt mean that Muay Thai is 'better' than boxing.
Consider these two circumstances:

1. A pro boxer vs a Muay Thai hobbyist (trains for fitness/self defence; pad work, sparring).
2. A pro boxer vs a pro Thai boxer.

In no.1 I bet on the pro boxer (I was a Muay Thai hobbyist for nearly 5 years and I have no illusions that I could take on a pro boxer), in no.2 I bet on the Thai fighter.
This says more about the individuals than the code involved.
You can substitute other things for Boxing and Muay Thai, the principles remain the same.

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 22:07
PartyBucket wrote:
So, basically, youre admitting that Muay Thai gives the practitioner more weapons than boxing.
This still doesnt mean that Muay Thai is 'better' than boxing.
Consider these two circumstances:

1. A pro boxer vs a Muay Thai hobbyist (trains for fitness/self defence; pad work, sparring).
2. A pro boxer vs a pro Thai boxer.

In no.1 I bet on the pro boxer (I was a Muay Thai hobbyist for nearly 5 years and I have no illusions that I could take on a pro boxer), in no.2 I bet on the Thai fighter.
This says more about the individuals than the code involved.
You can substitute other things for Boxing and Muay Thai, the principles remain the same.

Metaphorically you just threw a giant hairy tarantula into a shoe box with an inexperienced male praying mantis!
Like Nietzsche vs Elton John. A totally farcical encounter.

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Jan 8 2012 22:13

batswill, i think you should take a human strike on this one

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Jan 8 2012 22:13

You said:

"An orthodox boxer can handle most kickers and wrestlers easily". That encompasses all encounters between boxers and kickers/wrestlers, be they 'farcical or not.
Its good to see that as your arguments begin to unravel you revert to being the pretentious Dada-spambot of your posts in other parts.

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 22:36
[quote=PartyBucket wrote:
You said:

"An orthodox boxer can handle most kickers and wrestlers easily". That encompasses all encounters between boxers and kickers/wrestlers, be they 'farcical or not.
Its good to see that as your arguments begin to unravel you revert to being the pretentious Dada-spambot of your posts in other parts.

I do admire the Dadaists and what they represented in that era, they were intellectual heavyweights who floated like butterflies between the grim grey industrial capitalist war complex.

Arbeiten]batswill, i think you should take a human strike on this one

I will never throw in my towel, as bloody as it may be!

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Jan 8 2012 23:25

Fuckin hell Batswill you are a stupid cunt.

batswill
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Jan 8 2012 23:34
Choccy wrote:
Fuckin hell Batswill you are a stupid cunt.

I'll meet you down the park no rules you angelic tyrant! groucho

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Jan 8 2012 23:43
Choccy wrote:
Fuckin hell Batswill you are a stupid cunt.

that made me lol IRL (sorry bats).

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Jan 9 2012 00:11

choccy what was the name of the judo/bjj guy who smashed Nam Phan at ufc 141 i cant remember his name, do you know if he was in any other organisations before the UFC that i could download the fights?

cheers.

Also what did you think of diaz at 141, the diaz bros high volume low power punching thing seems to just overwhelm people, their cardio is insane.

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Jan 9 2012 00:19

Jimy Hettes - I still haven't watched that fihgt but a workmate told me Hettes BJJ was insane. Which is impressive cos Phan is a legit BJJ blackbelt and looked solid in TUF.

Yeah that Diaz high-volume stuff really seems to fuck with people's heads. Liek Cerrone said - Diaz really got inside his head and drew him into a boxing match, which Cerrone should have avoided as he's a better kickboxer and should have made better use of those leg kicks having downed him so many times. Great fight though. The fact that the Diaz bros do triathlons for fun says it all.

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Jan 9 2012 00:22
Choccy wrote:
Jimy Hettes - .

cheers mate

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