'Retrain ex-troops' as teachers

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Feb 15 2008 14:48
'Retrain ex-troops' as teachers

Worst idea ever
BBC Ex-servicemen and women should be retrained as teachers to bring military style discipline to tough inner city schools, a think tank has said.

Fuck, as if schools aren't bad enough with kids getting a shit education and teaching being more about crowd control than effective learning, they're now talking about shit like this.
Yeah great idea, why bother with people qualified in their subjects when you can just get even more authoritarian oricks into schools and run them like bootcamps? Nice one. Say what you want about schools but there are still some teachers who have a genuine interest in their subjects and in education.

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playinghob
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Feb 15 2008 15:00

When I was a lad I attended a boys secondary school during the 1960's. A couple of our PE teachers were ex-army PT Instructors. These guys were psychopaths and sadists. They would check to see if we had underwear on under our sports shorts; force us into cold showers and stand back laughing; slipper our bare buttocks for talking and allow their favourite bully boys to beat up the rest of us! Great days.....

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Feb 15 2008 15:04

I know it's fucking mental.
I just have this vision of some ex-troop having a flashback in geography class every time he looks at a map of the middle-east and central asia, about knifing some Iraqi in front of his family.

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Feb 15 2008 16:34

More on the same story in the Guardian

Former soldiers should be retrained to teach in inner city schools in order to tackle disruptive behaviour and bring their own brand of "moral authority" to the classroom, a thinktank said today.
Military-trained teachers could help to tame violent or unsafe classrooms, while providing meaningful employment for ex-servicemen and women, said a paper by the Centre for Policy Studies.

Another rediculous solution to a problem whose roots go far beyond the classroom walls. It'll be like Beavis and Butthead's PE teacher!

I wasn't aware that these sorts of schemes had been in placein the US for over a decade, bonkers.

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Feb 15 2008 16:56

What's wrong is that again, it's clearly shifting the cause as to why kids are "disruptive" into the realm of "poor discipline".
Seriously, at a time when education is still up shit creak, teacher job satisfaction is low and retention rates are dreadful, it's pathetic that they think bringing in "Ex-servicemen [who] are sure of their own moral authority and are not intimidated," will actually change anything.

This isn't some conspiracy theory bollocks Jack. It's just a slap in the face to teachers who actually might wanna get on with teaching their subjects and would rather have better wages and smaller classroom sizes than money wasted on retraining troops with the expressed purpose of bringing more discipline when they should be addressing the causes of "problem" behaviour.

Or are you just doing your casual reactionary thing? I can't tell anymore.

Caiman del Barrio
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Feb 15 2008 17:40

To be honest, I think a consistent admin policy would include deleting 70% of Jack's posts.

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Feb 15 2008 17:50

Or murdering him

Caiman del Barrio
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Feb 15 2008 18:09

If ONLY that was admin policy...

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Feb 16 2008 00:30

My problem is not with retraining people from different backgrounds Jack - that should be clear.
My problem is the expressed purpose with which this drive is being targetted - at a "lack of discipline" in schools - y'know, as if the root-cause of "problem behaviour" is simply not enough discipline, which is obviously bollocks.
Usual quick-fix shite which is an insult to actual teachers.
Sure, there's a whole lot of fucking shite teachers out there but I'm not about to start individualising the problem like that.

Oh and the flashback thing was obviously an absurd example for comic effect, you know that, so I don't know why you're pretending otherwise.

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Feb 16 2008 00:44
Jack wrote:
Since there's a shorage of teachers, how is it "insulting" to try targetted recruitment? confused It's hardly "money wasted" (again, wtf! If you're going to accuse me of being reactionary, you can hardly start saying public money spent on one area of training is "wasted") if it means people who are otherwise much more likely to be un/underemployed are trained as teachers, is it?

Of course I don't begrudge anyone a job, Jack. It's as if you didn't even bother reading the article or my posts at all.
In terms of its expressed purpose of tackling "disruptive behavior" it's bullshit and reactionary as fuck. I'd ratrher see teachers paid more and with smaller classroom sizes as a way of dealing with problematic classroom issues.

But sure na just get boot camp sergeants in.

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Feb 16 2008 17:28

Jack, given that the shortage subjects tends to be sciences and mathematics, why would they target their recruitment towards science and mathematics graduates, start actually paying decent wages and make job conditions better?
Seriously that's all I'm saying.
Of course a good way to reduce classroom sizes is to trains teachers and I've no problem with ex troops getting a livelihood elsewhere. I just think it's clear, whatever way you spin it, that this targetted recruitment is part of an increasing attempt to bring in more discipline in schools - I know you're saying it's just about giving troops jobs or whatever, but given the climate of fear, metal detectors in schools, fulltime on-site cops in schools etc, I think the last thing education needs is fucking ex troops.
Go and get some people qualified in their subjects and give them a decent fucking wage.

Caiman del Barrio
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Feb 16 2008 17:42

If you ask me it sounds like a bright idea of some midranking upwardly mobile bureaucrat trying to tie up two longstanding problems without really putting some thought into it.

Next week: heroin addicts are trained as nurses.

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Feb 16 2008 17:57

Aye yer right there Alan, two birds one stone.

Caiman del Barrio
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Feb 16 2008 18:07

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7247160.stm

More your cuppa decaf tea Conor?

Pepe
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Feb 16 2008 18:16

If the yoof of today could actually take military discipline, it might be an improvement. More likely, the 'hardcases' would be wanting to fight the teachers. Perhaps their parents should be in class as well. But surely our Civil Liberty friends will be bleating that you cannot shout at them.

Caiman del Barrio
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Feb 16 2008 18:20

Shit!!! Do you really mean that!!! But I thought you were an anarchist!!!

She got us there Conor...

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Feb 16 2008 18:21
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7247160.stm

More your cuppa decaf tea Conor?

Aye, bit more like it.
I drink normal tea except late at night.

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Feb 16 2008 18:28
Jess wrote:
If the yoof of today could actually take military discipline, it might be an improvement. More likely, the 'hardcases' would be wanting to fight the teachers. Perhaps their parents should be in class as well. But surely our Civil Liberty friends will be bleating that you cannot shout at them.

Here, listen I was pretty good at the crowd control/classroom management thing. In fact it was deemed one of my strengths by examiners, even when at the expense of "subject delivery" especially in the really shite school I was in.
That is by no means a good thing and something I'm kind of ashamed of, I hated being a cunt, but they make it part of the job and it becomes normalised in the context of attitudes towards kids as "problems", and "lacking discipline". I wouldn't even attempt to say it is a positive quality.

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Feb 17 2008 11:00
Jack wrote:
Except it's obviously not a joke.

Conor - you mean based on a badly written write up on BBC News, aimed towards what makes a nice headline the target is discipline, yea? The report is roduced by a think tank, who secure extra money and advertising if they can get in the media. Best way to do that is give some nice quotes that fit acurrent news agenda - at the moment problems of ASB, knife crime, discipline in schools etc. etc. The BBC article is especially bad on this.

However, if ou look at it properly (as I did, when we argued about it at work, given that it's a somewhat relevant topic) and look at the Troops to Teach programme, it's not about that. It's simply a training programme for people as the leave the forces (the US military puts a lot more into this than the UK, as they need a much higher recruitment rate so need to make it more attractive)

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/jobopportunities/a/troopstoteacher.htm

Nothing about bringing discipline or drill sergeant attitudes to the class room - "School systems are finding former military members to be very valuable assets. They bring leadership skills, a concern for their students (similar to their troops) and a lot of experience to the classroom.". This is in the US, where they are going to make an even bigger dealabout bringing discipline to inner city schools than here - but isn't focusing on discipline, because it's not media directed.

It's a relatively basic idea, and I'd hav thought it wouldn't really be the most contraversial - it's just been given a media spin by a think tank media guy, doing what think tanks do - tuning their reports and press releases towards what will get in the media. If they're gonna actually use it at all, it's going to be based more on the successful US programme, rather than some media soundbytes.

Obviously it'd be great if teachers got paid more. Obviously Im not saying otherwise - but this has nothing to do with that. You don't begrudge public spending in one area because it could be "better spent" in another. And I would have thought a good way to reduce class sizes is to train more teachers, no?

You do realise that what your proposing involves greater links between universities and the armed forces and is largely a product of the armies falling recruitment levels. I don't really see how you can possibly argue that this is a good thing, it may be kinda inevitable since its become clear that the UK needs more troops on the ground since it has to fulfill a garrison role and also needs to retain its ''specialist'' status in comparison to american forces thus recruiting from universities is the logical option, but its still fucked up.

I meanyour viewing it simply as a means of training ex-troops, whcih is highly naive, considering the US quite clearly uses college funding a s a lure to get people to join their armed forces. The one thing to be said about british universities is that they're open to most of society, you can get a loan you don't need to get patronage and funding from companies and the army like so many kids do in the US,

And seriously i think the comments about soliders who are homeless/temporaryly housed just being there because they couldn;t get a decent job or good training is pretty fucking retarded. I mean seriously if someones got post-traumaic strsss disorder, they aren't going to make a good teacher ffs roll eyes

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Feb 17 2008 12:26

Kid I know doing OTC in the US has a back pack "US Army, 100% Free college tuition" it says. I suppose that's good too.

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Feb 17 2008 13:15

Cantdo, Jack can argue it's a good thing because he's Jack, and we're all just being wooly liberals.

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Mar 31 2008 13:12

Perspective from an ex navy dude who's now a teacher
The navyman who became a teacher
He doesn't seem to think links between schools and the military is a good thing at all.

When students in his school, which draws pupils from some of the most deprived areas of Devon, say they are planning to join up, he says he feels "very sad".
Mr Clinch says armed forces' recruitment activities may not be as obvious as they used to be but they go into schools with the aim of signing young people up.
"It's young, mainly working class kids that they want. The officer class are treated differently - they are going to manage these recruits," he says.

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Mar 31 2008 13:53

At my local community fair the navy had abseiling and their air force a bouncy castle style assault course, you could get your picture taken in a machine gun nest at the army stall.
It is something worth reacting to.

Ariege
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Mar 31 2008 17:57

It'd work out quite well if they just swapped teachers for soldiers one-for-one. The teachers would be crap at shooting and blowing things up; boring people to death causes much less collateral damage. On the other hand we'd finally have accepted the true nature of schools and they be staffed by people better suited to potentially explosive policing actions.

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Apr 1 2008 22:28

this thread vindicates me on that other thread where jack was going on about the arny and that.

Yep.