New website for Libertarian Esperantists

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malatested
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May 21 2007 20:11
New website for Libertarian Esperantists

New webspace for left libertarian Esperantists or for those interested in learning Esperanto can be found at:

http://workersesperantoassociation.blogspot.com/

The Workers Esperanto Association hopes to operate as a communication network between left libertarian Esperantists in Ireland and as a point of departure for those interested in learning Esperanto. Workers struggles and news will be reported both in English and Esperanto.

La Laborista Esperanto-Asocio esperas funkcii kiel komunikema retajxo inter liberecanaj Esperantistaj maldekstruloj kaj ankaux kiel ekirejo por tiuj interesigxitaj pri lerni Esperanton. Laboristaj baraktoj kaj novajxoj estos raportitaj Anglalingve kaj Esperantlingve.

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MJ
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May 21 2007 23:44

ĝi estas speco da simila Klingon, prava?

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thugarchist
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May 21 2007 23:52
MJ wrote:
ĝi estas speco da simila Klingon, prava?

Doesn't klingon translate roughly to "blade" in esperanto? beardiest

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MJ
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May 21 2007 23:57

oh shit, it does, and holy shit @ you knowing that.

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thugarchist
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May 22 2007 00:00

Dude. I put your sentence into the same online translator. If I was gonna learn a language it wouldn't be esperanto.

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MJ
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May 22 2007 01:26

yeah right. black bloc you're a real renaissance man aren't you.

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thugarchist
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May 22 2007 01:28

Don't ruin my schtick fuckface.

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MJ
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May 22 2007 01:40

you read ken macleod dude. i've already told all the workers.

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thugarchist
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May 22 2007 01:57

IWWWW Unite!

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OliverTwister
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May 22 2007 04:40

I heart esperanto.

Mi koras esperanton.

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OliverTwister
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May 22 2007 07:35

On a serious note, I'm curious what the rough make-up, politically, of this group is, and its approximate size?

Sur noto serioza, mi volas scii kiuj specoj de politikanoj formas la grpon, kaj kiom da mombroj gxi enhavas (proksimume)?

Deezer
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May 22 2007 11:18

I think its too soon to answer that. From what I know malatested has basically taken the initiative in kicking this off and has had some positive feedback from some existing esperantists and a couple of others who are interested.

Honestly I'm still sorta bemused by the idea myself but getting more interested given that it does have some interesting practical benefits.

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MJ
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May 22 2007 12:05

What's wrong with English?

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Steven.
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May 22 2007 13:06
MJ wrote:
What's wrong with English?

I could maybe slightly see the point of this if it was to communicate with people across the world, but I don't quite get what the point of an Irish Esperantist group is - presumably they'd all speak english anyway!

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MJ
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May 22 2007 13:19
John. wrote:
MJ wrote:
What's wrong with English?

I could maybe slightly see the point of this if it was to communicate with people across the world, but I don't quite get what the point of an Irish Esperantist group is - presumably they'd all speak english anyway!

Exactly. I mean, you people didn't go through the hassle of teaching it to them for your own amusement, did you?

Everyone should learn either English or Mandarin, and then we can properly creolize the two during communism.

Bobby
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May 22 2007 15:10

lol, I agree with revol, its like resurrecting a redundant history club.

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Tojiah
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May 22 2007 15:58

Yes, libertarian esparantu, workers of the world unite under the flag of a universal language constructed solely out of existing European languages. Eurocentrism much? roll eyes

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MJ
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May 22 2007 16:24

Big-nation internationalism!

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OliverTwister
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May 22 2007 18:25
tojiah wrote:
Yes, libertarian esparantu, workers of the world unite under the flag of a universal language constructed solely out of existing European languages. Eurocentrism much? roll eyes

Wow what a thoughtful critique.

You should spread this one around - I've never heard it before wall

Now i'll insult you marxistically: Your critique is completely idealistic and ignores all historical factors.

Unfortunately for the uncivilized world, an International language became a possibility in the late 1800s in Europe - there was already a fairly large movement for a shitty language called Volapuk and when Esperanto came on the scene everyone switched to it cause it worked. Too bad that the creator, a Polish Jew, was so eurocentric that he only learned 14 European languages, stole a lot of the concepts in each one that made them easier, created a regular (and simple) grammar system, and took most of the vocabulary from what seemed to be the most practical area, Romance languages (with a smattering of Germanic, Slavic, and even Hebrew).

How racist!

And don't even get me started on Pa Jin and the first Chinese anarchists, who used this ufber-European language to make contact with anarchists and bring anarchist ideas into China. What an insult to the Chinese nation!

Not to mention the students during the Iranian revolution who told their English teachers to go and learn Esperanto, then teach that to them (thank goodness the islamic regime was able to stop this and protect their non-European language)!

PS
For everyone who's asking why an Irish esperanto group is being formed and not an international one, there's one that has existed since 1922 called the SAT (world antinational association). As far as I know this is the first "international" not to have any national sections, and it still exists today. There are several "fractions", among others there is an anarchist "fraction" and an antinationalist one.It isn't enormous today, but in the 20s and 30s had several thousand members. There was also an IWA-linked group which split from the SAT because it didn't have a harsh enough criticism of Stalinism.

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Tojiah
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May 22 2007 19:33
OliverTwister wrote:
Now i'll insult you marxistically: Your critique is completely idealistic and ignores all historical factors.

Unfortunately for the uncivilized world, an International language became a possibility in the late 1800s in Europe - there was already a fairly large movement for a shitty language called Volapuk and when Esperanto came on the scene everyone switched to it cause it worked. Too bad that the creator, a Polish Jew, was so eurocentric that he only learned 14 European languages, stole a lot of the concepts in each one that made them easier, created a regular (and simple) grammar system, and took most of the vocabulary from what seemed to be the most practical area, Romance languages (with a smattering of Germanic, Slavic, and even Hebrew).

How racist!

And don't even get me started on Pa Jin and the first Chinese anarchists, who used this ufber-European language to make contact with anarchists and bring anarchist ideas into China. What an insult to the Chinese nation!

Not to mention the students during the Iranian revolution who told their English teachers to go and learn Esperanto, then teach that to them (thank goodness the islamic regime was able to stop this and protect their non-European language)!

PS
For everyone who's asking why an Irish esperanto group is being formed and not an international one, there's one that has existed since 1922 called the SAT (world antinational association). As far as I know this is the first "international" not to have any national sections, and it still exists today. There are several "fractions", among others there is an anarchist "fraction" and an antinationalist one.It isn't enormous today, but in the 20s and 30s had several thousand members. There was also an IWA-linked group which split from the SAT because it didn't have a harsh enough criticism of Stalinism.

There's already an international language that's not too hard for people to learn, with a wider user base than esperantu: it's called English. If you're going to be a linguistic colonialist, might as well take the winning horse rather than the continental straggler.

By the way, am I supposed to be impressed by these examplary spectacular failures, i.e., Chinese anarchists and non-Islamic Iranian student revolutionaries? Maybe if the former had bothered learning more dialects of Mandarin instead of learning some elitist European construct, they'd be able to connect better with the peasantry and win the fight against the Maoists, rather than being wiped of the face of history? Maybe the latter would be dwelling in a spreading revolutionary Persian zone instead of constantly being shot down by Islamists if they'd avoided elitist trifles?

Honestly, this is worse than "jazz hands." Next you'll be telling me how we should all use ham radio instead of the internet.

Excuse me while I proceed to learn Arabic, which seems a lot more practical than learning esperantu and then preaching to all those damned Palestinians about how they should learn a universal language. roll eyes

malatested
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May 22 2007 19:36

Thanks for that, Oliver. You're rapidly becoming one of my favourite people. Just back in the door and pretty much expected some of the posts above.

For me, and this is a personal opinion, Esperanto is basically a very simple language which can be learned in a matter of weeks. No one is saying that everyone ought to speak it, or stop learning English or Spanish (or even Klingon if that's what you are into, though the good folk at Labourstart would be a bit hacked off to see their efforts dismissed in favour of Lieutenant Worf and his chums

http://www.labourstart.org/eo/

but why not have it as another string to your bow especially if it means being able to communicate on an equal footing with other activists across the world?

There are a lot of Esperanto speaking activists out there in places like Japan and China (and from other countries whose languages I reckon I will never learn) with whom I can quite easily communicate and debate. (The SAT organistion in Spain/France has CNT members, for example.) Let's face it, how many times have you won/lost debates with others simple because you were/were not speaking the host language

As an anarchist, I am also interested in the early days of the Esperanto movement and its ties with anarchism. There is an interesing article at:

http://raforum.info/article.php3?id_article=3664

which covers some of this. I believe this a tradition worth preserving.

There are also rumours that James Connolly (himself!!) was into Esperanto though I can't say for sure.

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/articles/2003/february/James%20Connolly%20and%20Esperanto.shtml

One of the purposes of the blog is really to act as a means to gather together those Esperantists who are active (or used to be), or activists (ex- or otherwise) who happen to speak Esperanto. I have just picked up my Esperanto again so I am interested in finding out. More importantly though, I'm hoping it can operate as a translating device for those workers' articles (written in Esperanto from Japanese, Chinese, Korean activists etc...) but have not been translated into English or to give information on Irish and British struggles in Esperanto for folk in Japan, China etc...)

solidarece,

Malatested

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May 22 2007 20:18
malatested wrote:
For me, and this is a personal opinion, Esperanto is basically a very simple language which can be learned in a matter of weeks. No one is saying that everyone ought to speak it, or stop learning English or Spanish (or even Klingon if that's what you are into, though the good folk at Labourstart would be a bit hacked off to see their efforts dismissed in favour of Lieutenant Worf and his chums

http://www.labourstart.org/eo/

but why not have it as another string to your bow especially if it means being able to communicate on an equal footing with other activists across the world?

There are a lot of Esperanto speaking activists out there in places like Japan and China (and from other countries whose languages I reckon I will never learn) with whom I can quite easily communicate and debate. (The SAT organistion in Spain/France has CNT members, for example.) Let's face it, how many times have you won/lost debates with others simple because you were/were not speaking the host language

As an anarchist, I am also interested in the early days of the Esperanto movement and its ties with anarchism. There is an interesing article at:

http://raforum.info/article.php3?id_article=3664

which covers some of this. I believe this a tradition worth preserving.

There are also rumours that James Connolly (himself!!) was into Esperanto though I can't say for sure.

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/articles/2003/february/James%20Connolly%20and%20Esperanto.shtml

One of the purposes of the blog is really to act as a means to gather together those Esperantists who are active (or used to be), or activists (ex- or otherwise) who happen to speak Esperanto. I have just picked up my Esperanto again so I am interested in finding out. More importantly though, I'm hoping it can operate as a translating device for those workers' articles (written in Esperanto from Japanese, Chinese, Korean activists etc...) but have not been translated into English or to give information on Irish and British struggles in Esperanto for folk in Japan, China etc...)

That would be great if my target audience was a bunch of anarchist activistoids around the globe. Even then, how many of them can't speak English, too?

ronan
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May 22 2007 21:31
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That would be great if my target audience was a bunch of anarchist activistoids around the globe. Even then, how many of them can't speak English, too?

you were so nice when you started posting on this board, look what you've done libcom! LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE!!!!
it's kind of like guydebordisdead, only he was never nice. wink

Deezer
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May 22 2007 21:38

Um, one interesting practical use would be the ability to translate articles, solidarity greetings, appeals without having to know fucking shit loadsa different languages. The CNT in Spain, among others, have articles and information available in Esperanto. One of the things that appeals least to me is the idea of having conversations in it down the pub roll eyes

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MJ
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May 22 2007 21:44

Yeah. Or the same articles could be translated into English.

ronan
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May 22 2007 22:15

to be honest i quite like the idea of a new global language,it makes me think of a glorious post revolutionary society, it's all a bit sci-fi really. and all this stuff about 'uh just speak english' kinda misses the point, no?

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MJ
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May 22 2007 23:28

Yeah I guess it misses the point... of replacing a living language developed by billions of speakers over dozens of generations with a code drawn up by some nutter in an office.

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May 22 2007 23:40
MJ wrote:
Yeah I guess it misses the point... of replacing a living language developed by billions of speakers over dozens of generations with a code drawn up by some nutter in an office.

Cultural imperialist.

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May 22 2007 23:40
MJ wrote:
Yeah I guess it misses the point... of replacing a living language developed by billions of speakers over dozens of generations with a code drawn up by some nutter in an office.

Cultural imperialist.

Deezer
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May 22 2007 23:59
MJ wrote:
Yeah. Or the same articles could be translated into English.

Um, yeah that is exactly the point you slow f**ker - if we have no-one who can speak chinese, or korean or whatever but a few people can translate into whatever language they use day to day from articles in esperanto then surely that makes sharing the information easier. To spell it out easier to "translate into english". duh.

That is the only possible use I see in esperanto, i do not wanna see small cliques of esperanto speakers colonising corners in pubs like politically motivated gaelgors in Belfast ignoring those who can't speak their mother tongue (while speaking what is actually the proud gaels actual first language). Nor would I want to see it become a post-revolutionary 'common tongue'. You'd best watch yersel or someone will call ye a big nation nationalist.

Deezer
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May 22 2007 23:59

Double post