Che Guevara?

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Rapparee
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May 9 2005 14:47
Che Guevara?

I just want to ask opinions about this guy. Is he any different from the Communist dictators such as Stalin, Lenin, Castro etc or is he different.

Opinions of Anarcho-Syndaclists or Anachist Communists would be appreciated.

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the button
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May 9 2005 14:54

.... also, to resurrect an enrager running joke, he shagged a dolphin. grin

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Jacques Roux
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May 9 2005 15:00

Try a search http://www.libcom.org/forums/search.php Im sure hes been talked about in other threads and maybe even a thread of his own smile

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Rob Ray
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May 9 2005 15:02

And he was a bloody rubbish revolutionary. Read his Africa diaries they're hilarious (he spends most of it whining that the Congolese guerillas won't do what he tells them to do and can't be trained as proper soldiers, in his native tongue of course as he never learned theirs).

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the button
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May 9 2005 15:04

... and he was sent over there by Catro pretty much 'cause he was fucking up the Cuban economy as finance minister. Although it did produce some banknotes signed "Che," which would be cool if you were into that sort of thing.

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PaulMarsh
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May 9 2005 15:19
Rapparee wrote:
I just want to ask opinions about this guy. Is he any different from the Communist dictators such as Stalin, Lenin, Castro etc or is he different.

Yes he's different - he managed to be a crap guerilla as well as a crap politician.

I think it may be unfair though to criticise his description of African Marxists. His criticism was, if I recall correctly, that they spent too much time in bars and brothels, and not enough on the front line. Given the subsequent performance of African Marxists in office, this actually sounds like fair comment.

One of those who he found particularly useless, Laurent Kabila, did take power in the Congo in the late 90s, but he was eventually assasinated.

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Rob Ray
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May 9 2005 15:33

He was probably being fair with some of his criticisms, but at the same time his training tactics, communications, strategies, negotiating skills, understanding of the situation and general coping abilities were just awful.

I may not be a general but I do know that giving a bunch of drunks (he didn't have the sense to get them sobered up) unlimited weaponry before you've trained them and then taking them out on a raid against well armed government forces who outnumber them, particularly if you can't speak their language, is tactical no-no.

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Steven.
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May 9 2005 17:28

Good thread in the archive here:

http://libcom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1924&highlight=che+guevara

Biography article here:

http://libcom.org/history/articles/1928-1967-ernesto-che-guevara/index.php

Wendal
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May 9 2005 20:13
the button wrote:
.... also, to resurrect an enrager running joke, he shagged a dolphin. grin

No pictures this time please.

Wendal
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May 9 2005 20:15
Rapparee wrote:
I just want to ask opinions about this guy. Is he any different from the Communist dictators such as Stalin, Lenin, Castro etc or is he different.

From what i have heard he was a fanatical worshiper of Stalin at least in his youth

thaw
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May 13 2005 21:47

Of course, the rest of us are much better revolutionaries (note use of irony).

And he was not a fan of Stalin (alhough I am), as his attempts to export the revolution testify.

Personally, I think the dolphin thing is capitalist propaganda and if you repeat it again Button, I'll need to send you a babelfish (and they are scarce).

Down with Batista and his mob - unless you are a purist. In which case, I spit on your grandmoher, who smells of elderberries.

STI
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May 24 2005 04:24

I look at Che the same way I look at all third-world Maoist revolutionaries. I critically support their revolutions as social movements which will (if only temporarily) kick out foreign imperialists, and will eventually develop into advanced capitalist societies more humanely than would otherwise have happened.

thaw
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Jun 3 2005 21:04

Sort of a bit like the Pilgrim Fathers and America eventually turning into the biggest terrorist superpower in the world, isolating any other types of society you mean?

PS Awaiting the Holy Anarchist Angel to descend from Heaven and save everyone....(come on, hurry up then)

dustylodge
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Jun 14 2005 14:54

He was a great revolutionary. He succeeded didnt he. And what if Cuba becomes a super power its a good thing. They will create a communist world...isn't that what we all want.

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Rob Ray
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Jun 14 2005 15:02

Well no, on his own he didn't he was a bloody disaster everywhere he went.

What's more, he and his were complicit in the betrayal of the (majority) anarchist unions before Castro obtained power, and in the subsequent systematic attack on all working-class dissent after they gained power.

While they seem to have maintained a relatively benevolent oligarchy in Cuba since, it would be a singularly bitter joke to call them communists.

thaw
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Jul 15 2005 21:52

Just because he's a real communist, Saii, no need to get upset. (Would you kick him out of bed, I wouldn't) ALso, do let me know when you free a country from the mob.

twat kitten

Stop being ultra-leftist pro-govt twats, or else...

I may sing to you..

thaw
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Jul 15 2005 22:26

You do realise that some are serious re insurrection, but not yet comrades. The state is very much in control still.

xx

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Rob Ray
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Jul 16 2005 00:32

Which country would that be, precisely?

thaw
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Jul 17 2005 21:37

Why Ipswich, of course!

thaw
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Jul 18 2005 22:26

I like being the dissenting voice. REVOLUTION is the only answer.

RISE UP

x,

z

thaw
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Jul 19 2005 22:13

I just remembered I am a marxist - objective conditions and all that.

Damn

Bloody ultra-leftist idealists, but I do like the anarchists it has to be said.

(CP member of old)

xx

Sure you are full of agents - you are too open for my liking. xx

and if I ever catch you...

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Volin
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Jul 19 2005 22:24
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Bloody ultra-leftist idealists, but I do like the anarchists it has to be said.

Are anarchists ultra-leftist idealists?

thaw
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Jul 19 2005 22:34

Possibly, not looked into it too closely.

grin

thaw
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Jul 19 2005 22:37

Away to bed now

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Volin
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Jul 20 2005 12:16

No, no they are not. Ultra-leftism and idealism are both pointless old dickhead Marxist slanders that have absolutely no meaning in practical terms and to anyone other than old dickhead Marxists.

might as well call us petit-bourgeois. roll eyes

thaw
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Jul 22 2005 19:50

OK, petit bourgeois...

Now what?

What are you, tell me? Seriously interested.

neutral

thaw
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Jul 22 2005 20:43
thaw wrote:
OK, petit bourgeois...individualists (antithesis of communism - ever met a working class person?)

Now what?

What are you, tell me? Seriously interested.

neutral

thaw
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Jul 24 2005 00:54

No answer then?

|What is black and sails the seven seas?

thaw
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Jul 24 2005 01:27

ok, I'll think about it.

eek

thaw
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Jul 25 2005 22:51

And I'd get off St Kilda quick, other plans....

8)

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Volin
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Jul 26 2005 12:02

riiight, what was the question again...

thaw wrote:
What are you, tell me? Seriously interested.

I'm a youthful, sexy proletarian from a wonderful tradition of free-thinking and class war anarchism. But, you said your name was Elaine, so you're not a mad man stalking me on the internet?

I'm disapointed.