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Why people on the far-left are very anti Israel?

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meerov21
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Sep 7 2013 11:04
Why people on the far-left are very anti Israel?

Israel is the colonial state. It was created by erupean jewish armed colonialist (zionists) in the end of 40s when anty-colonialist strugle was uprising. So that was against popular anty-colonial trend wich was supported by europian and american lefts.

But there was an intresting fact. Not all of the lefts condemned Israel in that time even inspite of the genocide of palestinian arabes ("Nakba") who was killed or deported from the Palestine (about 5 000 were killed and 800 000 deported) by zionists. Israel was ruled by the social-democrats and about 10% of israely jews lived in kibbuzes (communes) when the arabes were ruled by conservative religious leaders. Besides, part of the pro-Soviet lefts supported Israel for a while on the grounds that the Soviet Union supported it, while England was on the side of the arab countries.

The situation changed dramatically in the 50-70s. First, the left's attention was attracted to the tragedy of Palestinian refugees. And gradually a strong Palestinian national liberation movement was formed, part of which professed left-wing views (of course, it were state socialist). In the same time the pro-Soviet part of the lefts was influenced by the shift of the USSR position which seeked the contact with Arab countries where secular nationalists oriented to USSR started to come to power.

But the main event that changed the attitude of the lefts towards Israel was the attacks of this country on its neighbors during the Six-Day War in 1967. The Israeli attack on its Arab neighbors and the occupation of the Arab territories coincided with the rise of the left movement in the West and with the American aggression in Vietnam. In the eyes of the lefts Israel was now at the same level as U.S., especially after the Six-Day War when this state became the most reliable America's ally in the Middle East. Since then, the absolute majority of the lefts has taken anti-Israel position.

An important role in the shift of the lefts' attitude to Israel was played by Israel activists from a small left radical anti-Zionist Matzpen (Compass) group. They were perfectly aware of such aspects of Israeli everyday reality like racism (not only towards the Arabs, but also Jews - immigrants from North Africa and the Arab world who had become second class citizens in Israel), militarism, persecution of dissidents. Matzpen activists have done everything possible to bring these facts to the European and American leftists.

At present, Israel is a country of apartheid, where different ethnic groups live separately and a predominant part of non-Jewish people is deprived of all political, civil and social rights. This is reflected in the fact that Israel continues to occupy the West Bank of the Jordan River, which is a home to 3 million Palestinians. Palestinian Arabs are regularly subjected to violence by the Israeli military; they cannot move freely on the roads. Their lands and water sources are alienated for the Israeli colonial settlements’ benefit. The number of these settlements is constantly growing. Israel is similar to South Africa of the apartheid times, another country founded by colonial settlers from Europe. And of course the problem of the palestinian refugees still remain. 5 millions of refugees and their descendants can't go back home.

In addition, Israel has carried out a large-scale privatization company. A welfare state, once established in this country, has gradually been destroyed by right-wing governments. The policy of setting up colonial settlements in the occupied territories is closely related to this neo-liberal trend. The fewer social benefits and the higher the cost of housing in the center of the country, the larger number of the Israelis move to the occupied territories, where housing is relatively cheap.

Naturally, all these facts cannot be approved by the lefts.

At the same time, among the lefts today are those who favor the policy of Israel. These are the so-called anti-Deutsch, the German left-wing supporters of Zionism. In their point of view, whatever Israel does, it cannot be blamed because it is a Jewish state, and the Germans should always feel guilty about the Jews. (According to the anti-Deutsch opinion. The author of the article doesn’t support this idea.)

It only remains to add that to the supporters of the anti-authoritarian socialism and workers' councils, any state is bad by the mere fact that it exists and supports the capitalist system, regardless of whether it was created by European colonists or autochthonous national liberators.

Black Badger
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Sep 7 2013 14:14

Typical Anti-Imperialist blather.

meerov21
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Feb 3 2014 14:00

I met meny times leftists or anarchists who probably have some deep reasons for totall incomprehension of interlocutors.
If i say that german nazy killed 5 or 6 millions jews does that mean i am supporter of Stalin?
If i mention zionists apartheid does that mean i am supporter of PLO or Xamas?
I try to expound the history of lefts antipathy to Israel.
As for my own opinion i hoped it was clear from the last paragraph : "It only remains to add that to the supporters of the anti-authoritarian socialism and workers' councils, any state is bad by the mere fact that it exists and supports the capitalist system, regardless of whether it was created by European colonists or autochthonous national liberators".
However i wood like to notice few things.
1) Genocide, apartheid and military occupation are very ugly things. There is no any justifications for them.
2) A good solution for Israel/Palestine is common struggle of arabs and jews agains all bosses and against all unions for workers counsels.
3) I spent 4 years in Israel and i know that it is very difficult. Both community are strongly divided. Israely anarchists are very week and unpopular.
4) Idea of 2 states solution is collapseed becouse of the colonisation, 750 000 settlers alredy live at the occupied territory and they number is groing.
5) I think will be more massacres.

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Alf
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Sep 8 2013 08:45

I don't think that Meerov's post can be dismissed as mere anti-imperialist blather. It's true that the whole imperialist context of the Israel/Palestine conflict isn't analysed, and this may be why Black Badger sees it as an example of leftist anti-imperialism and nothing more. Of course when you bring in the world-wide imperialist context it becomes evident that from the beginning Israel/Palestine has been a battleground between regional and global imperialist powers, that both Zionism and Palestinian nationalism have always been ideological and material agents of imperialism. Meerov also seems not to see that the 'left' as usually referred to is the left of capital (Trotskyists, maoists, etc) and that they are incapable by nature of defending an internationalist stance on the Middle East. This also applies to Matzpen who, although a bit of a political mish-mash, was essentially an offshoot of Trotskyism. But Meerov also seems to be against all states and for revolution by workers' councils, so surely there's a basis for discussion there?.

meerov21
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Sep 8 2013 16:04

I wood add that i don't agree with 99% with so called "lefts" and my own point is clear. I think only internationalist (and multinational) autonomous workers councils can bring masses to the socialism (communism).
Palestinian state will not give happiness to the 90% of arabes. It will become puppet of palestinian bureaucrats, bosses and olso puppet of strong states (like Israel or Iran or Saudi Arabia).

meerov21
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Sep 9 2013 16:55

This also applies to Matzpen who, although a bit of a political mish-mash, was essentially an offshoot of Trotskyism.

It is not exactly like that.
Part of Matzpen have been trotskists but some of them - anarchists

meerov21
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Oct 8 2013 14:50

Part of Matzpen have been trotskists but some of them - anarchists

I know in fact israely anarchist Ilan Shalif - he is former member of Matzpen

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Feb 1 2014 16:39

A few points about this thread, from a Palestinian/Israeli Anarchist (sorry not noticing it earlier).

Generally meerov21's account is valid, fact-wise and as a narrative. Of course it is incomplete (it's not an article or a book), but still a reasonable summary in several pararaphs. Certainly not "anti-imperialist blather". I do have some points of reservation though:

- Please do not conflate Judaism with Zionism. Even the 'Jewishness' of Zionists should be taken with a grain of salt, since the Zionist movement came from among the more secular Jewish circles, with Theodore Herzl even considering at one point the notion that Jews might convert to Christianity en masse. Zionism was not well-regarded among (most of) the ultra-orthodox Jewish community, often as a form of hubris, an attempt to speed up the end-of-days redemption etc. Many Zionists, especially those of the Socialist/Nationalist persuasion, were actually staunch atheists. This is especially true for the Kibbutzim. Certainly, today, it is not your religious persuasion which defines "which side you're on", and it's more Hebrews vs Arabs. Or, if you like, if you're willing to learn Hebrew and kill Arabs, and you're not too black, then you're a good enough Jew in Israel
- The number of Hebrew colonists in the 1967 territories is probably close to 500,000 rather than 750,000: http://is.gd/FgIstn
- The Israeli welfare was, from the get-go, very discriminatory. Arabs got practically nothing and were subjected to martial law, and Jewish immigrants from Arab and North-African states were very badly mistreated and only got a fraction of the benefits and services which Ashkenzi Jews got.
- Privatization should not really count as a factor in anything, it's something that happens in states all over the world; if you already feel the state is illegitimate, it will be the same with more or with less privatization of state welfare services.
- Matzpen has a bit of a complex history, but both Alf and meerov21 are right smile Just remember there were never more than 40 members in Matzpen. Now, Palestine/Israel is a small country (fits within 550 km x 50 km or so, about 10 Million people incl. the west bank and Gaza), but still it was a small (but influential) organization and not a mass movement.
- Hope I haven't missed anything.

The thing about Israel is, that even if you're a consistent liberal democrat, or statist anti-Colonialist, you would also oppose Israel, while not opposing the existence of many other states. And that probably answers the opening question of this thread.

satawal
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Feb 2 2014 15:52

I think iepk is (sadly) pretty on the money when they say the following answers the question of ‘Why people on the far-left are very anti Israel?’:

Quote:
The thing about Israel is, that even if you're a consistent liberal democrat, or statist anti-Colonialist, you would also oppose Israel, while not opposing the existence of many other states. And that probably answers the opening question of this thread.

However I also think that some in the far-left and some anarchists maybe very anti-Israel for a wider set of reasons including other rather unsavoury ones. Whilst not agreeing with piles in the following book recommendation it never the less has unfortunate elements of truth.

See: ‘That's Funny, You Don't Look Anti-Semitic: An anti-racist analysis of left anti-semitism’ by Steve Cohen (ZT"L), edited by Libby Lawson and Erica Bunnan

http://you-dont-look-anti-semitic.blogspot.co.uk/

(Note: I am of course anti-Israel myself… alongside being anti-Palestine and anti-UK and anti…)

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Feb 2 2014 23:43

I really don't like that article you linked to. Cohen says, for example:

"On the other hand it seems to me equally undeniable that Zionism in its inception was anti-racist. It was a reaction against, a way of dealing with, European anti-Semitism. "

It is not only deniable that Zionism was anti-racist, but rather, it's mostly untrue. Zionism was in many way racist - not only against the people of Palestine (or Uganda, if you know that story), but interestingly enough, also against Jews. Among Jewish reactions to anti-Semitism, Zionism was rather unpopular, and denounced - rightly, in my opinion - as adopting the basic tenets of organic/volkish nationalism, the notion that Judaism is a race, that Jews and Christians can't live together, that people need to band into nations, et cetera.

Also, Cohen, suggests that as a Jew in Europe in the 1930s he might have supported Zionism - which is technically true, but only if he were a very seedy character. That was one of the low points of Zionism, when it helped break the boycott against Naziism by signing the 'Transfer Agreement'; refused to allocate funds and resources to helping Jews escape Nazi-controlled area of Europe; and even lobbied until rather late (at least 1938, maybe later) against states allowing Jewish immigration to anywhere other than Palestine.

Cohen says "I take it as axiomatic that any revolutionary of that pre-war period would have fought for the absolute right of Jews to enter Palestine." in other words, he believes that world powers were justified in subjugating the Palestinians so terribly, as to prevent them from resisting the influx of East European immigrants into the country. Now, I'm not saying whether morally the Palestinians should or should not have allowed Jews to find refuge in Palestine during that time; it's just that they were dead-set against it. Such "absolute right" could only be maintained by the use of massive violent and deadly force.

I could go on, but that's not the subject of the thread. I might say this, though:

Some people are anti-Israel also because other people use Israel as a needle-hole through which to thread their effective withdrawal from the radical positions they presume to hold.

meerov21
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Feb 3 2014 13:57

Zionism in the beginig was strong raсist idea. No doubts about that.
I can advise to read the work of the Israeli historian Shlomo Zand. He publishes direct quotes founders of Zionism. Almost all of them as Zionists-socialists and the right-wing Zionists were convinced racists.

I should also remind that the Zionist organization in Palestine in the 1930s increased their economic and political power thanks to a strong Alliance with Nazi Germany (Haavara) .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

This Alliance created the basis for emigration to Palestine the Jews from Germany, with all their capital.

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Red Marriott
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Feb 3 2014 17:52

http://libcom.org/library/brownshirts-of-zionism-barnatan

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Feb 10 2014 22:54

Red Mariot, that's a terrible article. Must have been written by a MAPAI party supporter.

Mr. Natural
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Feb 17 2014 20:52

Am I "anti-Israel?" It's a good question. I accept the existence of the state of Israel, as it is an obviously permanent reality. I am also very sympathetic with many of the initial Zionist motivations, and believe I am quite sensitive to the historical plight of Jews--persecuted strangers in strange lands--and the unspeakable horror of the holocaust. I also appreciated epk's observation that not all Jews are Zionists. Israel's racist, reactionary, degraded current reality is deeply painful to many Jews.

But Israel is carrying out a slow but calculated ethnic cleansing? genocide? of the Palestinian people, bankrolled by its patsy, the United States, and I absolutely hate this situation. And is there a more obscene charade anywhere than the "peace talks" each American administration feels obliged to fake? Israel, which owns the US government, has no intention whatsoever of returning the land it illegally occupies, the Palestinian "leadership" is impossibly corrupt and often politically degenerate, and there seems to be no chance of a viable Palestinian state.

And while I'm at it, the Israeli attack on the US Liberty in the 1967 War was unquestionably deliberate, and the Johnson administration's cover-up of the attack and its subsequent silencing of the surviving crewmen is the treasonous outrage the news outlets and reporters have been desperate to avoid. Obama would have their ass if AIPAC didn't get them first. Mr. Natural

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Feb 17 2014 22:03
Quote:
Israel, which owns the US government

There are lots of reasons that the US is involved with Israel in the way that it is. How can a tiny state like Israel 'own' the US? Moishe Postone talks about this: How Jews are always given tremendous, even god-like, powers of manipulation in anti-Semitic discourse. The US government is controlled by the economy - value and its incessant, pointless and abstract cycle of self-valorisation -, not by the state of Israel.

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Feb 18 2014 01:39
Mr. Natural wrote:
...bankrolled by its patsy, the United States...Israel, which owns the US government...Obama would have their ass if AIPAC didn't get them first.

In addition to what Malva wrote, I rarely see this simplistic notion of some all-powerful lobby in the service of a foreign state controlling the US government applied to other situations. Did the Iranian government and its lobbyists own the US government in the 60s and 70s? Did the Iraqi government and its lobbyists own the US government in the 80s? Did Suharto own the US government when he was receiving heavy support from it? Is a South Africa lobby and the domination of South Africa over the US to be credited for longtime US aid to the apartheid government?

I'm unsure of the relevance of the Israeli occupation being illegal. Is it any more or less abhorrent whether or not it's received the formal approval or condemnation of the international ruling class that creates international law? I've always found it bizarre when people of apparently radical political views criticize states on the basis of them violating international law--Noam Chomsky comes to mind, though maybe he does it more to point out the hypocrisy.

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Feb 18 2014 09:39

Btw, if anyone is interested in an overview of Postone's views on this, this interview is quite useful: http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2010/02/05/zionism-anti-semitism-and...

Quote:
The way in which anti-semitism is distinguished, and should be distinguished, from racism, has to do with the sort of imaginary of power, attributed to the Jews, Zionism, and Israel, which is at the heart of anti-semitism. The Jews are seen as constituting an immensely powerful, abstract, intangible global form of power that dominates the world. There is nothing similar to this idea at the heart of other forms of racism. Racism rarely, to the best of my knowledge, constitutes a whole system that seeks to explain the world. anti-semitism is a primitive critique of the world, of capitalist modernity. The reason I regard it as being particularly dangerous for the left is precisely because anti-semitism has a pseudo-emancipatory dimension that other forms of racism rarely have.

Quote:
Israel is far from being as powerful as charged. Yet you have people like my present and former colleagues at the University of Chicago, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, strongly supported by circles in the UK, who argue that the only thing driving American policy in the Middle East is Israel, as mediated by the Jewish lobby. They make this sweeping charge in the absence of any serious attempt to analyze American policy in the Middle East since 1945, which certainly cannot adequately be understood as Israel-driven. So, for example, they completely ignore American policy toward Iran for the past 75 years. The real pillars of American policy in the Middle East after World War Two were Saudi Arabia and Iran. That has changed in recent decades, and the Americans aren’t sure how to deal with that and secure the Gulf for their purposes. Yet you had a book written by these two academics claiming that American policy in the Middle East was primarily driven by the Jewish lobby without bothering to seriously analyze Great Power policies in the Middle East in the 20th century.

Mr. Natural
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Feb 19 2014 20:34

It's always a problem on the left to challenge the "Israeli lobby" with some of the outrages Israel has and is perpetrating. I repeat that I accept the state of Israel, but I do not accept its slow strangulation of the Palestinians for their land and water.

I seem to have been labeled as anti-Semitic with my position that no American government or president or political party would dare significantly oppose Israel's actions. Although it was not my intention, I presented one instance of this reality: the deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in the 1967 War that was hushed up and denied by the US government. No one contested this, and if this doesn't represent some form of Israeli control of American politics ....

Yes, "tiny Israel" calls the shots in America as regards the Palestinian situation, too. I will offer as a recent, obscene in the extreme example the US Congress's vote, 344 to 36, to condemn the UN Goldstone Report, which rather mildly criticized Israel's massive, prolonged attack on Gaza, one of the most densely populated places in the world.

Yes, Goldstone who is Jewish and a Zionist of sorts was harshly criticized by the Jewish community in his South African home and later backed off from his report, but he was opposed in this by the report's other authors.

I'm not anti-Semitic and in fact despise anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry. "Anti-Semitism" is the usual cheap shot fired at anyone who criticizes Israel. Were I Jewish, I'd be labeled a "self-hating Jew." Now I await the comments on the plight of the Palestinians that have been missing from your kneejerk defenses of Israel's Zionist imperialism.

Mr. Natural

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Feb 19 2014 21:42
Mr. Natural wrote:
No one contested this, and if this doesn't represent some form of Israeli control of American politics ....

Yes, "tiny Israel" calls the shots in America as regards the Palestinian situation, too.

Why does this only apply to Israel? Have all the other states that've consistently received significant amounts of aid from the US also been "calling the shots"? Was there some form of South African or Iraqi or Iranian or Saudi Arabian or Guatemalan or Colombian or Turkish control of American politics when governments there were heavily supported by the US in engaging in terrible mass murder and repression?

Mr. Natural wrote:
Now I await the comments on the plight of the Palestinians that have been missing from your kneejerk defenses of Israel's Zionist imperialism.

Where has anyone defended anything the Israeli government has done? Why is some token comment on the plight of the Palestinians necessary?

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Feb 19 2014 22:29
Quote:
I'm not anti-Semitic and in fact despise anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry.

Antisemitism is not a normal kind of racism or 'bigotry'. It is a political, even pseudo-anti-capitalist, ideology. An explanation of the world with which your comments bear similarities. Of course the Israeli state deflects criticism by calling it antisemitic. However, a lot of criticisms of it are antisemitic, including many of your comments. I suggest you read that article I linked to and maybe this too.

Mr. Natural
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Feb 20 2014 19:14

Malva, I challenge you to point to a single anti-Semitic comment I have made. Your interpretation of my political criticisms of Israeli-American policy towards the Palestinians as "anti-Semitic" simply reflects your own biases.

Mr. Natural
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Feb 20 2014 19:26

Tyrion, Did you really mean to write, "Why is some token comment on the plight of the Palestinians necessary?" In addition to the callousness your remark suggests, the topic of this thread is "Why people on the far-left are so anti Israel."

radicalgraffiti
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Feb 20 2014 19:43

you keep saying israeli controls us government policy, this idea originates in anti Semitism. Pointing out its not true is not supporting israel or the us, to claim it is is either stupidity or being deliberately dishonest.

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Feb 20 2014 20:03
Mr. Natural wrote:
Tyrion, Did you really mean to write, "Why is some token comment on the plight of the Palestinians necessary?" In addition to the callousness your remark suggests, the topic of this thread is "Why people on the far-left are so anti Israel."

I'm pretty sure that virtually everyone who posts on a forum like this is well aware of the terrible oppression of the Palestinian working class by the Israeli government. However, given that my post was specifically related to the reality or falsehood of the apparent domination of the Israeli government and its foreign agents over the US, I don't see how any comment on Palestinian suffering would have been relevant.

Mr. Natural wrote:
Malva, I challenge you to point to a single anti-Semitic comment I have made.

Why is it that US support for the Israeli government is attributable to the Israeli government and its lobbyists pulling the strings of US foreign policy, yet this doesn't apply to any of the countless other vicious regimes sponsored by the US government?

Drakula25
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Feb 21 2014 00:24

Hi guys, I'm new here, but I am a lurker and I read articles on libcom. Decided this is my time to comment!

Before this thread devolves into the "YRUSOANTI-SEMITIC" clusterfuck that seems to be so common on this website, I think it's worth addressing the more serious problem with the "left" -- its racial privileging of Jews, as an extension of white privilege. This subject is not understood properly among leftists, and, in my experience, especially among anarchists. They do not understand what privilege is.

The left or "radical left" may be, relatively speaking, critical of Israel, but the idea that the left is actually genuinely anti-Israel is bullshit. The European and American lefts are overwhelmingly dominated by members of the racial and ethnic groups of privilege in their respective countries, and yes, that includes Jewishness as a subset of whiteness.

There is a kneejerk desire to discover "anti-Semitism" (as the simpleminded comments above establish) while whitewashing colonialism and the concurrent racism against peoples of the colonized world, including Palestinians.

The link above, for example. The website is established to find and expose "left anti-Semitism". While whitewashing Zionism as an anti-racist movement, when in fact, as anyone with a history degree can tell you, is the exact OPPOSITE of how Zionists themselves formulated their movement it posts a number of links to institutions and organizations that have consistently promoted racism when convenient for them politically. The ADL, for example, not only witch-hunts Palestinian rights groups, it was also caught SPYING on a number of civil rights organizations in the 1990s to keep tabs on criticism of Israel. It also distributes a student activist guide for pro-Israel campus activists, arguing that Palestinians should not share equal citizenship because they are essentially ethnically unqualified to live in peace -- the same argument the ADL campaigns against when it is made by white supremacists in the United States. Racism is convenient for them only when it privileges Jewish people. In the United States, opposition to traditional white supremacism is important because it is key to allowing entry of ethnic minorities -- such as Jews -- into places of power. Concurrently, when it is inconvenient to the established interests (including the pro-Israel lobby), the ADL will not condemn anti-Semitism -- such as when pro-Israel Congressmen make offhanded remarks about Jews, or when right-wing Evangelical groups propagate non-sense about Jews deserving their oppression due to their refusal to accept Christianity.

The entire concept of "left anti-Semitism" is a joke. While one can always cherry-pick anyone with any given abhorrent opinion (including anti-Semitism) from a large group, there is virtually no evidence of structural or systemic anti-Jewish sentiment among the left international. Indeed, despite extensive studies to "find" anti-Semitism on the left, including multiple campaigns against the Black Panthers, smears against Hugo Chavez, etc, there is literally 0 evidence for anti-Semitism on the left -- until anti-Jewish sentiment is redefined to mean opposition to Israel that goes beyond the arbitrary barriers set by those in power, including on the left.

Above, a user claims that discussing the pro-Israel lobby is "anti-Semitic" because it singles out Israel. There is an obvious reason to single out Israel, despite his attempt to pull the race card -- that Israel is blindly defended far more than any other country in the West, and for obvious reasons. It is not simply a third world dictatorship, but rather a settler-colonial state. It is not subject to international sanctions despite several decades of colonialism and siege, its economy and society enjoy relatively normal economic relationships with the West despite horrific atrocities (in contrast to the managerial roles given to dictatorships in the Middle East), and no other country's domestic lobby in the United States has been able to establish itself as such an entrenched political interest that every major political candidate swears their allegiance to it.

The so-called "singling out" of Israel is the opposition to Israel itself being singled out for protection by those in power in the West, as well as the sorry excuse for the "left" that exists in the West. Those in power and compliant leftists by extension constantly seeks to downplay or control opposition to Israel based on phantom concerns about anti-Semitism. By pulling the race card to whitewash opposition to Israel, they are defending settler-colonialism. Furthermore, by attempting to find "anti-Semitism" and by turning exaggerated opposition into the racist state of Israel (such as conspiracy theories or bestowing excessive amounts of power onto Israel) into "proof" of anti-Jewish sentiment, they are establishing the boundaries: go further than this line in opposing a racist regime, and I will accuse you of racism yourself!

It's worth reading through some of the ridiculous topics on libcom itself. One poster asks why a settler-colonial movement designed violently disenfranchise millions of people with billions of dollars of US support is not comparable to leftists waving flags from Hezbollah -- an anti-colonial movement made up of disenfranchised youths in Lebanon that is resisting a completely racist settler colonial project. Another compares pro-Israel sentiment on the left to "anarcho-primitivism". That is, supporting Israeli racism and colonialism is essentially harmless and childish, like anarcho-primitivism.

Others believe that XYZ criticism of Israel as a racist regime, including perfectly understandable opposition to its powerful US Lobby or its intelligence apparatus, which has been caught consistently engaging in devious covert operations, including this one -- where Israeli agents literally dressed up as Arabs and tried to kill Americans in order to create sympathy for Israel -- is proof of anti-Jewish sentiment. Again, there are obvious reasons other than being Jewish that one would single out Israel, and to suggest otherwise is a blatant attempt to defend a racist regime with racism. Rather than seeing such opposition to Israel as accurate at best and exaggerated but understandable at worst, it is instead relegated to the annals of StormFront.

In doing so, the "left" is whitewashing racism and white supremacy. The same is often done with black nationalist movements. I would not deny that such nationalist movements, as well as anti-colonial nationalist movements (such as Palestinian nationalism) are without their problems. But literally compare the opposition to racist entities, states, lobbies, etc with resistance toward these racist institutions is little more than trying to make Israeli settler-colonialism in particular and white supremacy in general banal. It is Orwellian to conflate a racist regime with movements defined by their opposition to racist regimes and practices -- such as the rape of Palestine.

Perhaps the most obvious proof of this is the existence of the so-called "Anti-Germans" tendency, which argues not only that there continues to exist a form of "structural anti-Semitism," but that it is rooted in German national identity and somehow (?) as a consequence, leftists must support both the United States' wars of aggression in the Middle East and Zionist settler-colonialism. Rather than seeing these people as the forefront of the most violent, oppressive tendency in the world -- namely colonialism -- they are treated as an "issue" at best and supported at worst. The fact that leftists would rather stand with advocates of a brutal, settler-colonial, nuclear power that engages in systematic racism against Arabs as well as African refugees and markets itself as a way to control the Arab population on behalf of Europe, while campaigning AGAINST the Muslim and Arab immigrant populations in Europe that support Palestine and various anti-colonial resistance movements, is a blatant show of how white supremacy has entered these left circles through its apologism for Zionism.

TL;DR: If I see the anti-Deutsch or anyone else apologizing for Israel at a protest I will beat the living shit out of you and piss in your mouth.

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Feb 21 2014 03:11
Drakula25 wrote:
TL;DR: If I see the anti-Deutsch or anyone else apologizing for Israel at a protest I will beat the living shit out of you and piss in your mouth.

Drakula25
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Feb 21 2014 03:57

Try responding to the longer version when you're done posting old memes.

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Feb 21 2014 08:34

@Drakula. Antisemitism is much more complicated than racism. It is, as I stated above, a political ideology.

I personally have no problem with people genuinely struggling against any state. It is the notion of the Jews' having immense power over the world through Israel and struggle against "Jews" and "Jewishness" that I have a problem with. It is so typical of leftists to say that you need to support whatever idiocy they are undertaking because otherwise you are with the enemy. No, YOU are with the enemy by espousing pseudo-anti-capitalist theory that ultimately leads to death camps. It is this very antisemitic discourse that drives politics in Israel further to the right.

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The entire concept of "left anti-Semitism" is a joke. While one can always cherry-pick anyone with any given abhorrent opinion (including anti-Semitism) from a large group, there is virtually no evidence of structural or systemic anti-Jewish sentiment among the left international.

To say that left antisemitism isn't a problem I find completely shocking. The entire history of the 20th century says otherwise. Antisemitism is a position that has a strong tradition in the left and the right. The above poster was actually an "antisemitic candidate" who ran for election in France. He was variously a socialist and an anarchist. But then, anti-Semites also like to deny the history of antisemitism, don't they.

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cantdocartwheels
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Feb 21 2014 11:04

This stuff cracks me up. In the UK left and most of the left on the continent, Israel-palestine is a massive issue. It gets a lot of coverage, a lot more than comparable situations in turkey, Uganda, sudan, sri lanka, china etc etc etc
The left in the uk holds lots of demos or meetings on the subject. If you were a student lefty. you would probly have been to one. And yet sill all the loonies come out of the woodwork to tell us that the left isn't anti-Israel enough. As if we should spend all our time obsessing over one country, thousands of miles away, which we are largely powerless to do much about.

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Feb 21 2014 11:15
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I think it's worth addressing the more serious problem with the "left" -- its racial privileging of Jews, as an extension of white privilege
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The European and American lefts are overwhelmingly dominated by members of the racial and ethnic groups of privilege in their respective countries, and yes, that includes Jewishness as a subset of whiteness.

''the left is run by the jews'' a depressingly bog standard anti-Semitic slur.

Drakula25
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Feb 21 2014 14:49

Malva uses anti-Jewish propaganda from over a century ago, cantdocartwheels conflates racial privileging with "anti-Semitic slurs". Malva's argument is as convincing as pointing to anti-Irish sentiment from the 1800s and then saying that the Irish are still an oppressed minority in the United States. What a joke!

Points proven, you people wouldn't know racism if it sent you to Auschwitz -- and whitewashing the Israel Lobby and Zionism are absolutely a form of that ongoing European supremacy which produced anti-Semitism in the first place.

As for people who are more "libcom-approved" essentially saying the same thing as I am:

http://www.chomsky.info/books/dissent01.htm

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the anti-Semitism was very real. There were certain paths I could take to walk to the store without getting beaten up. It was the late 1930s and the area was openly pro-Nazi. I remember beer parties when Paris fell and things like that. It's not like living under Hitler, but it's a very unpleasant thing. There was a really rabid anti-Semitism in that neighborhood where I grew up as a kid and it continued. By the time I got to Harvard in the early 1950s there was still very detectable anti-Semitism. It wasn't that they beat you up on the way to school or something, but other ways, kind of WASP-ish anti-Semitism. There were very few Jewish professors on the faculty at that time. There was beginning to be a scattering of them, but still very few. This was the tail end of a long time of WASP-ish anti-Semitism at the elite institutions. Over the last thirty years that's changed very radically. Anti-Semitism undoubtedly exists, but it's now on a par, in my view, with other kinds of prejudice of all sorts. I don't think it's more than anti-Italianism or anti-Irishism, and that's been a very significant change in the last generation, one that I've experienced myself in my own life, and it's very visible throughout the society.

The truth is that you are both correct, Israel is singled out: for support, including on the left. No other country causes this many idiots to come out screaming about phantom "anti-Semitism" where it doesn't exist -- and that should be expected, because anti-Arab racism in general and anti-Palestinian racism in particular is well established on the left. Palestinian militants are conflated with Zionist colonialism, Palestinian national liberation is conflated with Zionism, Palestine Solidarity requires token Jewish voices to establish that it is acceptable (an example of white privilege, not an example of sensitivity about racism), Arabic-language chants are discouraged, etc etc.