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UK - Election: Vote Corbyn

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jesuithitsquad's picture
jesuithitsquad
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Joined: 11-10-08
Nov 4 2016 15:00
Quote:
None of you are anarchists, left liberatarians or communists. You are cowards, gutless self entitled scum. If you want to ban me, you'll only be proving my point. Hiding behind dogma and bullshit.

once again showing you have no idea what any one of those labels mean.

Battlescarred
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Joined: 27-02-06
Nov 4 2016 15:25

About time. Why did so many of you respond to this abusive troll?

Spikymike
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Joined: 6-01-07
Nov 4 2016 15:59

Just wanted to say before this thread ended that a Corbyn lead LP may not be flavour of the month in capitalist and political establishment circles just now given the leftist 'sound bites' emanating from the leadership battles, but the current lot are very far from even earlier left turns in that organisation and some aspects of what McDonnell for instance proposes are well within mainstream economists advise on dealing with UK capitalism's problems post Brexit. A more left-wing inclined government might not be such a bizarre prospect if the economic crisis gets still worse in UK-land. See these short articles for comparison:
www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2016-10-11/yes-we-need-socialism-no-corbynis... and
www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2016/no-1347-novemb...

Sharkfinn
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Joined: 7-11-13
Nov 4 2016 18:36

He definitely had to be banned. He didn't really leave any other choice. That said, as far as trolls go, wishface was kinda useful. Arguments against corbynism are generally really well presented and the discussion is commonsensical in a way that non-ultra left people can understand it.

Being an absolute nut, wishface made other posters look really good. Might actually bring some new traffic to the site. It's an accessible thread to new comers in a way that threads on value theory or the real subsumption aren't.

fingers malone's picture
fingers malone
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Joined: 4-05-08
Nov 4 2016 20:30
wishface wrote:
Ed wrote:
Though maybe this is symptomatic of your lazy politics where you hope change can come by just getting out of bed one day and ticking a box. That's what gives you the gall to talk to a bunch of people like fingers who have been/are active in their unions, communities, various political groups etc and call them do-nothings coz they think your box-ticking is pointless..

You can't be this stupid, surely. This has to be some kind of act.

Active? Like fuck you are. This is the politics of laziness and ignorance.

Lol I actually honestly just came home from a picket line!

ajjohnstone
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Joined: 20-04-08
Nov 5 2016 04:30
Quote:
Wishface Nov 3 2016 15:52 #225
ajjohnstone wrote:
So Wishface, for all your earlier sanctimonious talk about protecting the NHS, it now appears you would rather sacrifice it than sacrifice Corbyn for the sake of its defence...There is a word for that sort of politics...cultism
How have you reached that conclusion? Please provide evidence to back up your claim, or have the guts to retract it.

I said – “I mean, if i was into "practical" and "pragmatic" real politik strategies to protect the NHS by kicking out the Tories even if it means kicking out Corbyn/McDonnell.”

You said – “Because Corbyn is their leader. And because I think he is differnet than the Blairites. Did you not read the part where i said if someone like Owen Smith was leader I wouldn't advocate this? Because then it really would be the same as the tories.”

I conclude you have put the personality above protecting the NHS (and other social institutions that may be threatened. I never suggested Owen Smith as the alternative. There are many political rivals to Corbyn who would be more acceptable to the media and other MPs and who would still be committed to Corbyn’s policy on the NHS. Placing Corbyn above a principle that you have repeatedly depended upon to justify voting for Labour is a sign of following a personality cult.

Have you got the guts to admit that?

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Ivysyn
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Joined: 12-08-14
Nov 5 2016 07:27

"1. As I have said, there will not be a revolution. This isn't going to happen. I wish it weren't so, desperately. It's what this country needs. But what it needs it's not going to get. So we have to make do with what we have right now. That said, I fully endorse and support revolutionary activity and grassroots activism such as we have seen from groups like DPAC for example, or those resisting bailiffs and evictions - including those instigated by Labour councils. I'm not naive."

Isn't this just defeatism? Obviously revolutionary change anywhere is not going to happen anytime soon, but I think the basic assumption of revolutionary politics is that revolutionary change will happen if we effectively organize for it. This is an important base assumption because we no doubt live in an oppressive world that can only be abolished through the self-activity of the oppressed. Telling revolutionaries to abandon that assumption and vote for a centrist candidate with some vague hope that he might make things better seems like the worst advise possible.

"2. Since an election is inevitable, the left has a responsibility. If it doesn't vote that then translates into a vote for the Tories."

No it doesn't. If you don't vote for any candidate then you haven't voted for any candidate. Simple as that. It's pretty convenient that this type of guilt tripping assumes that not voting is a vote for whoever the person arguing the point doesn't like. How come refusing to vote is not automatically a vote for labour or the libdems?

"The bottom line is this: you can still fight for revolutionary change, you can still campaign grassroots direct action, but if you enable the Tories to remain in power, knowing what they have done over the last 6 years already (never mind the next 4), you are complicit in that (aforementioned caveat aside, and any others I have not considered)."

Let me ask you something. So, let's say Corbyn wins in 2020, what is preventing the Tories from winning next election cycle? The revolutionary analysis is that capitalist democracy doesn't exist so believing in some grand, all important choice between two capitalist options is a liberal point of view, not a revolutionary one.

potrokin
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Joined: 28-05-16
Nov 5 2016 23:09

What if you do want Corbyn to win in 2020- just so he fails or betrays his support base? This is what is likely to happen. Libertarian Communism then being the logical alternative to a capitalist society.