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Trotsky is a pretty bomb writer, whatever you think of his politics

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yoda's walking stick
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Jul 2 2011 21:15
Trotsky is a pretty bomb writer, whatever you think of his politics

I feel like I know why so many people are attracted to Trotsky. One reason certainly is that he's a great writer. Am I wrong?

I just finished Terrorism and Communism by Trotsky, and am now listening to Two Tactics of Social Democracy in the Democratic Revolution by Lenin, and am just bowled over by how much more lively the former is than the latter. T and C entranced me, whereas the book I'm currently listening to is boring me out of my noggin.

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Zanthorus
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Jul 2 2011 22:16

Personally I think Lenin is a pretty readable writer as well but to each their own I guess.

S. Artesian
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Jul 2 2011 22:53

No doubt, Trotsky was a great writer. Lenin, not so much.

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RedEd
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Jul 2 2011 23:27

Same with speeches apparently. When people needed to won round or stoked up, Trotsky was sent in. When people needed to have the party line shouted at them for hours, it was Lenin's turn.

yoda's walking stick
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Jul 2 2011 23:39

I feel like you probably need both types of personalities in a revolution. They're such an iconic duo, like McCartney and Lennon or something.

S. Artesian
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Jul 3 2011 04:16
yoda's walking stick wrote:
I feel like you probably need both types of personalities in a revolution. They're such an iconic duo, like McCartney and Lennon or something.

And how did that work out, in the long run, for the proletarian revolution, good you think?

"Trotsky's da bomb writer"

"Lenin's down with the hard stuff'

Think we need to dig a little bit deeper, comrade, no?

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Arbeiten
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Jul 3 2011 04:32

I'm with Artesian on this one. I understand you are a new comer Yoda, but really this discussion is bullshit. who cares if Lenin or Trotsky flirt with your literary frivolities. Who cares if one is more lively than the other? We have to unpick the relative merits and faults of both.....

yoda's walking stick
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Jul 3 2011 05:10
S. Artesian wrote:
yoda's walking stick wrote:
I feel like you probably need both types of personalities in a revolution. They're such an iconic duo, like McCartney and Lennon or something.

And how did that work out, in the long run, for the proletarian revolution, good you think?

"Trotsky's da bomb writer"

"Lenin's down with the hard stuff'

Think we need to dig a little bit deeper, comrade, no?

Dear patronizing asshat,

Not everything has to be some sober faced historical analysis. Relax a little. Maybe people will like you better.

If I can't make tongue in cheek comparisons between Bolshevik vanguardists and flower-power pop stars, it's definitely not my revolution.

S. Artesian
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Jul 3 2011 11:41

Dear dilettante,

You can certainly make the comparisons, as ignorant, superficially, and self-serving as that might be.

That wasn't the issue-- your argument that you need both a Lenin and a Trotsky for the proletariat to make a revolution was the issue.

If you can't see that, then you're absolutely right, I agree. It's not your revolution. Never will be.

Got any better jokes?

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Steven.
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Jul 3 2011 12:28

Now now, children, play nice. Artesian, the poster was clearly making a frivolous point for amusement value.

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Django
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Jul 3 2011 12:30

Yes, check the flaming please.

yoda's walking stick
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Jul 3 2011 13:01

It wasn't a good joke, but seriously lighten up.

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Tojiah
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Jul 3 2011 16:42

Shouldn't this be in "libcommunity"? It should be if the flaming is to escalate.

Anarcho
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Jul 3 2011 20:43

No, don't see it myself -- although his arguments for destroying workers democracy in the army, workplaces, etc. have a certain black-humour quality to them. Plus his repeated call for party dictatorship before, during and after he got expelled by the bureaucracy he helped create have a certain ironic aspect to them which can provoke a smile.

Black Badger
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Jul 3 2011 21:02

Met a Trot once who insisted that the Cheka was an irreproachable revolutionary formation - until it started coming after the Left Communists and Trostkyists... Sad but true.

Khil
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Jul 11 2011 15:44
Anarcho wrote:
No, don't see it myself -- although his arguments for destroying workers democracy in the army, workplaces, etc. have a certain black-humour quality to them. Plus his repeated call for party dictatorship before, during and after he got expelled by the bureaucracy he helped create have a certain ironic aspect to them which can provoke a smile.

Yep, you could say he chose the icepick that he got dusted off with... wink

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Ed
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Jul 12 2011 07:35

Never read much Trotsky but what I did was quite nice (literary-wise that is, politically I'm prone to agree with Anarcho on this about the black humour, sort of like a revolutionary version of 'The Thick of It')..

Lenin I always thought was dire to read, until I read Stalin and found it as agonising and tiresome as counting warts on an arse..

Now Mao, there was loon who could put sentences together..

posi
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Jul 12 2011 15:46
Quote:
Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full.
piter
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Jul 12 2011 16:09
Quote:
Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full.

Amen

Trotsky indeed liked shiny sentences full of pathos...
effective for a speaker but when it's litterature that's not so good...he's very effective as a polemist but as a writer I'm not sure...

S. Artesian
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Jul 13 2011 12:44

How about as a historian? That's where his writing and his powers of analysis are at their peaks, strengthening each other. 1905, History of the Russian Revolution, Lessons of October are the greatest demonstrations of his skills.

piter
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Jul 13 2011 12:57

his ultimate "historical" conclusion is that proletrian revolutions are doomed unless a party dictatorship (shaped in a bolshevik way) takes charge, so permits me to doubts his power of analysis...

but well, yes, some of his works are interesting to read and must be read if you have the time (and his last works are interesting as a kind of ultimate and pure expression of classical bolshevism).

S. Artesian
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Jul 15 2011 06:00

WTF? You disagree with his conclusion, so you discount his presentation of the actual history?

Well, make sure then that you only read history by historians with agreeable conclusions.

piter
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Jul 15 2011 20:27

well, S.Artesian, analysis and presentation of the actual history are two different things...