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Things lib-communists say that you hate hearing all of the time

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Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
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Aug 12 2013 10:32
Mike S. wrote:
Anarcho vegan fundamentalist diatribes against the evil that is eating pizza, milk, eggs, fish etc. I don't want communism if there's no free pizza with real cheese on it. I don't consider chickens my "comrades". Anything Derrick Jensen says. Not a fan of Brian Dominick either.

"... meat is murder, milk is rape, honey is fascism ..." ... heard it a couple of times during the 1990ies, mostly from people who became carnivorous a few years later, a friend called himself sometimes ironically "anarcho-honey-fascist" after having been insulted by some teenage vegananarchists ... another good reply to these kids was to add "and eggs are abortion, aren't they?"

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Aug 12 2013 12:55
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"and eggs are abortion, aren't they?"

In which case I've just had a option on toast for lunch - from my very own lifestylie hens I might add.

In my youth I used to go hunt sabbing, but the truth is I just wanted a bit of a ruck. I also used to smash butchers shop windows and spray red dye everywhere, in fact, i have a criminal record as a result of it,but once again I didn't really care about animals - I just loved the sound of breaking glass! Embarrassing really, but a whole load of fun at the time.

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Aug 12 2013 15:12

things i hate lib-coms, lefties, anyone saying...

Mike S. wrote:
Anarcho vegan fundamentalist diatribes against the evil that is eating pizza, milk, eggs, fish etc. I don't want communism if there's no free pizza with real cheese on it. I don't consider chickens my "comrades".

i don't want to debate about it. just putting it on record.

time to go cry. sad

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Steven.
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Aug 12 2013 15:49

"communisation"

Mike S.
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Aug 12 2013 19:30
ultraviolet wrote:
things i hate lib-coms, lefties, anyone saying...

Mike S. wrote:
Anarcho vegan fundamentalist diatribes against the evil that is eating pizza, milk, eggs, fish etc. I don't want communism if there's no free pizza with real cheese on it. I don't consider chickens my "comrades".

i don't want to debate about it. just putting it on record.

time to go cry. :(

Sorry to hurt your feelings. Topic dropped.

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Aug 12 2013 20:54
Entdinglichung wrote:

"... honey is fascism ..."

Wait, what? I'm a vegetarian and now I can't even have honey without being a fascist? My food choices are limited enough as it is! cry

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Entdinglichung
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Aug 12 2013 21:12
Ethos wrote:
Entdinglichung wrote:

"... honey is fascism ..."

Wait, what? I'm a vegetarian and now I can't even have honey without being a fascist? My food choices are limited enough as it is! cry

fruits and nuts ... because human teeth and intestines are - at least according to some vegan ideologists - similar to the ones of a squirrel (forgetting that they do eat nestlings and eggs)

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Aug 12 2013 22:16
Entdinglichung wrote:
Ethos wrote:
Entdinglichung wrote:

"... honey is fascism ..."

Wait, what? I'm a vegetarian and now I can't even have honey without being a fascist? My food choices are limited enough as it is! cry

fruits and nuts ... because human teeth and intestines are - at least according to some vegan ideologists - similar to the ones of a squirrel (forgetting that they do eat nestlings and eggs)

I've never met this type of vegan (I've never met any vegans, actually, only other vegetarians), i.e. "fruit and nuts"-vegan, but it just goes to show that idiots come in all kinds of flavors.

p.s.
I didn't mean to derail this thread.

KHM
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Aug 12 2013 23:46

"the extra-parliamentary left"

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Aug 13 2013 02:01
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fruits and nuts ... because human teeth and intestines are - at least according to some vegan ideologists - similar to the ones of a squirrel (forgetting that they do eat nestlings and eggs)

Yea, blood vessels explode in my eyes when I hear this crap. Unfortunately it comes from both sides, "we are supposed to eat meat man" and so on. Basically its all complete shit. In the environment of evolutionary adaptiveness, genus Homo was only "supposed" to eat one thing; that which they could get their hands on and wouldn't kill them outright. Sometimes meat, sometimes veggie, sometimes meat served delicately over a bed of veggie, sometimes veggie floating in meaty broth. That said, none of that should matter to fundementalist carnivores or fundy vegans as most of them no longer resides in anything close to the EEA and live in places where there are nominal choices in the foods they eat.

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Aug 13 2013 09:37
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This is the web site of socialists who were expelled from the Clapham-based Socialist Party in May 1991 for using the name “The Socialist Party of Great Britain” in our propaganda as required by Clause 6 of The Object and Declaration of Principles formulated in 1904 to which we agree. We reconstituted ourselves as The Socialist Party of Great Britain in June 1991 setting out our reasons in a document “The Reconstituted Socialist Party of Great Britain” listed on this site. Any money given to us for literature or support is in recognition that we are not the Clapham based Socialist Party at 52 Clapham High Street and any mistakes will be rectified. We are opposed to all capitalist political parties whether they are alleged labour or avowedly capitalist

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Aug 13 2013 09:54
Mike S. wrote:
Anarcho vegan fundamentalist diatribes against the evil that is eating pizza, milk, eggs, fish etc. I don't want communism if there's no free pizza with real cheese on it. I don't consider chickens my "comrades". Anything Derrick Jensen says. Not a fan of Brian Dominick either.

This certainly isn't going to help me fit in judging by the generous 9 up votes you got for that, but when you say: "I don't consider chickens my "comrades"" It isn't half as relevant as you seem to think. For the simple reason that you don't have to consider someone your comrade or even like them in order to disapprove of their violent death.

OK, go! Call me names.

Mike S.
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Aug 14 2013 02:32
Kureigo-San wrote:
Mike S. wrote:
Anarcho vegan fundamentalist diatribes against the evil that is eating pizza, milk, eggs, fish etc. I don't want communism if there's no free pizza with real cheese on it. I don't consider chickens my "comrades". Anything Derrick Jensen says. Not a fan of Brian Dominick either.

This certainly isn't going to help me fit in judging by the generous 9 up votes you got for that, but when you say: "I don't consider chickens my "comrades"" It isn't half as relevant as you seem to think. For the simple reason that you don't have to consider someone your comrade or even like them in order to disapprove of their violent death.

OK, go! Call me names.

A chicken isn't a "someone. I don't care about liberating chickens I care about liberating the human working class. Some of, no, most all of you go as far as to attack animal testing for medical science as well. About 95% is done on lab rats. AIDS research on small monkeys. Opposition to medical testing is wrapped in pseudoscience and "direct action" as far as setting livestock free, attacking livestock transport trucks, blowing up medical labs, destroying the medical research, setting the mice free, threatening lab technicians, scientists, butchers, farmers and generally anyone directly involved with the meat industry will gain my scorn as will preaching to me about meat eating being the source of class society while comparing it to the NAZI holocaust. The core argument comes down to the silly position that field mice hold the same value as human life. Be a vegan, go ahead, but when vegans turn into "anarchist" Jimmy Swaggart's I can't help but hold my nose.

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Aug 14 2013 03:56

I wanted to avoid a debate, but I can't in good conscience sit by and let this type of shit be said unchallenged.

Animals, like humans, are capable of both physical pleasure and physical pain. And like humans, they are capable of both emotional pleasure and emotional pain. Therefore, they should not be forced by us to live in horrible conditions which deprive them of physical and emotional pleasure, and subject them to physical and emotional suffering. Most especially not when for entirely trivial purposes, such as providing food that it is unnecessary for a healthy human diet.

You don't have to think an animal is as important as a human to recognize that an animal is way more important than a human's desire for a steak or cheese.

The conditions which farmed animals live under are some of the most horrendous and torturous you can imagine. (Watch the 12 minute "Meet Your Meat" video on YouTube if you have any doubt.) And they are deprived of the happy life they could otherwise have.

Animals aren't as smart as humans, but that doesn't mean their capacity for pain, pleasure, distress, or joy are any less intense. Baby humans aren't very smart, but they're capable of pain, pleasure, distress, and joy. It's less complex, sure, but that doesn't make it less deeply felt. (If you've ever lived with a cat or dog, you'll know that animals are capable of negative and positive emotions.)

If you don't care about the suffering and wellbeing of other creatures, just because those creatures aren't human, that's some tragically cold-hearted shit. But it's not a big surprise. People's ideas about what's right and wrong are largely shaped by their culture. Otherwise decent, good-hearted people can support some really evil shit if that's the norm in their surrounding culture. Like back when the majority of white people used to think slavery was fine. Most weren't evil, most were decent folks, but they supported something evil. (Before you go accusing me of comparing animals and human slaves, I'm not, what I'm comparing is the way our ideas of right and wrong are shaped.) There are numerous other historical and contemporary examples.

I understand many people think that veganism is merely consumer politics and doesn't impact any real change. I don't have illusions about the extent to which veganism will make a difference within capitalism. The hopes I have for animals are cast on the other side of revolution. But it will still take a strong animal rights movement in the future anarchist society. The more we can do to build an animal rights consciousness now, the better - and that's a good reason to be a vegan.

If animals are provided with a happy life, then I don't see a problem with gathering eggs and milk from them. But animals must be allowed to live those happy lives until their natural end (or euthanized once they're very old and sick and suffering). The whole "happy butcher" thing is a perversion of kindness. If a creature is having a happy life, then what an awful thing to cut that happy life short.

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Aug 14 2013 04:07

let's stop derailing this thread. split here: http://libcom.org/forums/general/animals-being-vegan-etc-14082013

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Aug 14 2013 06:47
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A chicken isn't a "someone. I don't care about liberating chickens I care about liberating the human working class.

As if ye couldn't do both. Man, I must really hate humans to not find exploitation of animals OK.

Build up the strawman, knock it down. Like a boss.

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Aug 14 2013 12:50

"Precarity"

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Ramona
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Aug 14 2013 12:57

"Try talking to a working class bloke down the pub about that"

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Arbeiten
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Aug 14 2013 13:04

'Can't do that, thats reformism' - as if our minuscule praxis had any relevance.... :'(

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Aug 14 2013 13:29

"Comrogue"

factvalue
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Aug 14 2013 14:44

'intersectionality' - why do you need a technical word for doing a distro at a crossroads FFS!!!!!!!......,sorry..

wojtek
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Aug 14 2013 15:11
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People's excuses for why they're not doing any economic organising, either in the workplace or in the community, do my head in.

Such as?

factvalue
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Aug 14 2013 20:38
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Much as I dislike the the term "intersectionality", the people who complain about it are generally far worse than anybody who uses it (same applies with "privilege theory").

On a technical point I wasn't complaining about it only making a stupid little joke. Much as the wee crap joke I made was indeed terribly crap - and no-one dislikes little crap jokes LESS than me - I find people who don't even understand them etc..

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Aug 14 2013 20:55

**deleted** Arbeiten beat me to it...

Mike S.
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Aug 14 2013 20:50
Tommy Ascaso wrote:
factvalue wrote:
'intersectionality' - why do you need a technical word for doing a distro at a crossroads FFS!!!!!!!......,sorry..

the people who complain about it are generally far worse than anybody who uses it (same applies with "privilege theory").

Privilege theory. Worse in what sense? If one criticizes privilege theory then one is worse than? A person pushing privilege theory or a racist or a privileged person? There's been a lot of Anarchists and Marxists who criticize privilege theory (me included). The criticisms of privilege theory are usually misunderstood and are complex because privilege does exist in society - it's more so the manner in which activists use privilege theory as a basis of formulating theory/action/activist culture that most of us criticize.

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Aug 14 2013 21:07

"Bay Area"/"Brighton" wink

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Mr. Jolly
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Aug 14 2013 21:04

"Regroupment"

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Aug 14 2013 21:20
Mike S. wrote:
- it's more so the manner in which activists use privilege theory as a basis of formulating theory/action/activist culture that most of us criticize.

I think this goes for everything....ever.... other people just don't know how to do stuff my way. ffs. cool

Mike S.
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Aug 14 2013 21:26
Arbeiten wrote:
Mike S. wrote:
- it's more so the manner in which activists use privilege theory as a basis of formulating theory/action/activist culture that most of us criticize.

I think this goes for everything....ever.... other people just don't know how to do stuff my way. ffs. cool

Ya I know. Fuck class analysis. Hell, forget materialist analysis in general. smile

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Aug 14 2013 21:31

Ah I see "comrogue" got a down vote. I'm sorry, I'm just no fun, say whatever you want. Comrogue. Combabe.