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Things leftists say that you hate hearing all of the time

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Mike S.
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Aug 5 2013 20:10
Harrison wrote:
I am not sure that trigger warnings are in fact the vastly threatening obstruction to the growth of the communist movement that is suggested here.

If anything I'd like to see them improved, ditching the bold caps lock exclamation marked text, in favour of a tidy recognisable graphic.

It seems to me that complaining about trigger warnings is frustration with the communist movement in general, misdirected onto issues that are not the reasons for why it is a marginal political tendency.

Lacan would be proud of your analysis there but my annoyance with trigger warnings is shared by communist and non communist "leftists" alike. We're simply pressured to either be quiet about it or to conform to the group. How does one voice their annoyance with "trigger warning culture" without sounding like an insensitive asshole? I don't know, maybe this person gets it:

http://marandaelizabeth.com/2012/12/15/my-complicated-feelings-about-tri...

I almost want to come up with some slogan now- "In order to abolish the state we must first abolish the trigger warning". If Bakunin came back to life this would be hist first priority. Marx may even fit it into a new edition of Capital.

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fingers malone
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Aug 5 2013 20:27

Ok an example.
Once I was at work, and I had a ten minute tea break. I quickly checked my emails, expecting small things. But I had an email about a horrific situation people were trying to deal with including a sexual assault. I read the email and was horrified and very upset.
At which point the students all came back in the room, where I was sitting in a semi-trance, really freaked out and upset, and they quite legitimately wanted me to talk to them and smile at them and teach them things. Which I did, but it really would have been better all round if I'd read the email later, eg. when I got home. I think at its simplest the trigger warning works like that, you might not want to read something on the bus, or when you are about to have tea with your nan. So you can decide not to open an email, or maybe open it later.

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Malva
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Aug 5 2013 20:43

This was such a great thread to begin with. An opportunity to discuss the regular responses that we get when putting across a radical critique of capitalist society. Instead it has turned into some bizarre esoteric discussion about a subject I had never even heard of until now and seems completely irrelevant to the original topic or, indeed, putting across a critique of capitalist society to humanity at large.

In all discussions with Leftists from now on I will make sure to add the caveat: "Trigger warning: Radical critique of capitalist society and hierarchy. Leftists may be offended and exposed to something they find dangerous, upsetting and discomforting. Flash backs to the fall of the Soviet Union or worker self-organisation may recall previously stressful experiences."

Seriously though, from the outside this seems like an unnecessary codification of a rather obvious human courtesy.

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Agent of the In...
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Aug 5 2013 20:48

Trigger Warning: This may be an attempt to steer this thread back to its original premise.

Don't you just hate it when leftists say something in defense of capitalism that sounds very much like what their rightists friends would say?

Sure, their reformists, but why do they have to sound alike? You might think in that particular area, they might have some new reasoning.

teh
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Aug 5 2013 20:55
Webby wrote:

Woah there! That's a bit one dimensional if you don't mind me saying. I left NA after 11 years as I felt I could not move on with my life in that environment but if people find a safe place and a new way to live and don't want to move on then good on 'em. Anyway, it's well documented that there are dangers associated with leaving even after decades clean. Most importantly though, if everyone leaves once they've been drug free for a while who's going to help the next fucked up addict when they walk through the door?

If the other alternative is drugs then NA fulfills a positive social role but as a program it encourages people to let their drug use define them as persons beyond the level of necessity, its whole higher power greater then yourself precept while on the one hand minimizing free will doesn't address broader social causes of drug abuse (so it operates on the level of the individual), and I don't know if your night meetings were lit by candles but I personally find the whole 'we're a community/family' cringy (same thing goes for a lot of marginal political sects with their own culture). I wasnt talking about people who come to help run the program but someone who say has a depressing day and even though drug use is ancient history for them they feel the need to come to the meeting so that they can have someone to talk to (the way a Christian would go see see priest if something bothers them) and vent. There is no resolution and an- almost- identity is perpetuated.

jolasmo
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Aug 5 2013 21:01

What exactly is people's problem with trigger warnings? I really don't get this shit about them being 'coddling' or 'leading away from class conflict' or whatever. Surely they're just informative? They aren't meant to dissuade anyone from reading or seeing anything they like, they're just there to give folk a choice about what they read before they read it.

As far as privilege stuff goes, it's obviously a loaded term, but it does describe a real thing which it is useful for radicals to be able to talk about e.g. the simple fact that in a hierarchically divided society some groups are relatively better off than others. In the absence of a significant movement to challenge the fundamental basis of that society, it's often in the interests of such groups to actively maintain their relative advantages within society at the expense of oppressed groups lacking the same privileges. As anarchist communists this is an important part of the environment in which we organise, and we ignore it at our peril.

[/FULL LIBERAL DRIFT]

Anyway back on topic:

"We need a UKIP/Thatcher/Golden Dawn/etc. OF THE LEFT"

"We have to work with the tuc/labour/uaf/etc. or we will never reach THE BROADER CLASS. I mean what are we gonna do, just go talk to people?"

~J.

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Agent of the In...
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Aug 5 2013 21:12

On wheel of fortune: "Big money, big money, big money, big money, big money!!!!! IIIiiiiiiiiii want big money, big money, big money, big money, big money, big money!!!!!"

In front of white house gate: "Big money, big money, big money, big money, big money is CORRUPTING our democracy! Get big money out of politics!"

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Mr. Jolly
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Aug 5 2013 21:16

My auntie who always says 'You still into that new age stuff' actually this is the opposite the question. What non 'lefties' say to me that causes amusement rather than annoyance.

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Aug 5 2013 21:17
jolasmo wrote:
"We need a UKIP/Thatcher/Golden Dawn/etc. OF THE LEFT"

Slavoj Zizek. Ew.

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Noah Fence
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Aug 5 2013 21:22

Sure Teh, I know exactly what you mean and don't disagree, I'm just saying its not as clear cut as you seem to think. You can have a bad day AND come to help others. That's the whole point.
Some groups are pretty cringy but so what? Just cause you and I find them cringy it doesnt make them any less valid. The idea that these incredibly self centred people can find relief from themselves by supporting others is an incredibly powerful one.
As for addressing the broader social issues, well, rightly or wrongly NA works on a 'disease' model and therefore social issues don't fit into its self appointed remit.
Did we burn candles? Did we fuck! We were fucking hardcore! We operated outside of the service structure, printed our own books, did out reaches to prisons etc. amongst our number were violent criminals, homeless people, prostitutes etc as well as academics, business people and even toffs!
This may not fit too well in to class politics, and certainly it has many flaws but if I felt I needed to go back there to save my arse I wouldn't hesitate for a fucking minute!

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Mr. Jolly
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Aug 5 2013 21:25

No shit someone green activist once told me in no uncertain terms that class was 'so single issue'

radicalgraffiti
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Aug 5 2013 21:26

oh also "we need a new workers party"

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Chilli Sauce
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Aug 5 2013 21:49
Agent of the Fifth International wrote:
jolasmo wrote:
"We need a UKIP/Thatcher/Golden Dawn/etc. OF THE LEFT"

Slavoj Zizek. Ew.

In fact, just Zizek. Everything he says.

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Chilli Sauce
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Aug 5 2013 21:50
radicalgraffiti wrote:
oh also "we need a new workers party"

"reclaim the Labour Party"

jolasmo
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Aug 5 2013 21:58
Chilli Sauce wrote:
radicalgraffiti wrote:
oh also "we need a new workers party"

"reclaim the Labour Party"

These two phrases cut right to the heart of the utter fucking shambles that is "the left" in Britain today.

~J.

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Standfield
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Aug 5 2013 21:59

"Yeah, I once thought like you, but then I realised ..."

Nice thread by the way.

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ultraviolet
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Aug 5 2013 22:02

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ultraviolet
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Aug 5 2013 22:03

I FUCKING HATE IT WHEN LEFTIES BE TALKING IN CAT MEMES ALL THE TIME!!!!!111

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Entdinglichung
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Aug 6 2013 13:49

- stuff like "this is to complicated for the workers" or "this will scare the workers off" ... generally used, when it comes to topics like racism, anti-semitism, environmental issues, feminism, etc.

- "defend all jobs!"

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Standfield
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Aug 5 2013 22:49

"The 1%".

Or even,

"The 99%".

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Entdinglichung
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Aug 5 2013 22:56
Standfield wrote:
"The 1%".

Or even,

"The 99%".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw_motorcycle_club#One_percenter

Quote:
Some outlaw motorcycle clubs can be distinguished by a 1% patch worn on the colors. This is claimed to be a reference to a comment made by the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) in which they stated that 99% of motorcyclists were law-abiding citizens, implying that the last one percent were outlaws. As a result, some outlaw motorcycle clubs used it to unite or express themselves and are commonly referred to as "one percenters". The comment, supposedly a response to the Hollister riot in 1947, is denied by the AMA—who claim to have no record of such a statement to the press, and that the story is a misquote.

Mike S.
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Aug 5 2013 23:14
ultraviolet wrote:

I have ailurophobia so a trigger warning would be very considerate next time you feel the need to post pictures of cats. Thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailurophobia

Mike S.
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Aug 5 2013 23:34
fingers malone wrote:
Ok an example.
Once I was at work, and I had a ten minute tea break. I quickly checked my emails, expecting small things. But I had an email about a horrific situation people were trying to deal with including a sexual assault. I read the email and was horrified and very upset.
At which point the students all came back in the room, where I was sitting in a semi-trance, really freaked out and upset, and they quite legitimately wanted me to talk to them and smile at them and teach them things. Which I did, but it really would have been better all round if I'd read the email later, eg. when I got home. I think at its simplest the trigger warning works like that, you might not want to read something on the bus, or when you are about to have tea with your nan. So you can decide not to open an email, or maybe open it later.

I think the original usage of trigger warnings on feminist sites (or anywhere in print/text) when rape/sexual violence/violence is being discussed do hold purpose. I'm more so criticizing where that has led. I only posted one example of the absurd overuse of "trigger warning" but I can fill this thread up if needed. You have to admit placing "trigger warning" on anything that might possibly give anyone the slightest bit of discomfort is, well, silly. I don't want to live in that world. I'm pretty sure I never will accept the usage of "trigger warning" to warn people away from discussions concerning pot holes, snakes, fire, meat consumption, class issues,spiders, cats etc. Any sort of traumatic experience or phobia or dislike is now warranting "trigger warnings". Here's where my jaded insensitivity comes int play. I simply don't care about the million different fears people have unless it was trauma from physical/sexual violence.

A vegan friend of mine has pushed for trigger warnings on facebook when posts concerning food at restaurants are made. People discussing eating a good hamburger was just too much for her. We were talking about "Fuddruckers" (a crappy restaurant chain in America where you can make your own hamburger). Can't you see the absurdity in posting "trigger warning, discussion of hamburger eating".

Not everyone uses common sense but the reasoning behind using "trigger warning" does open up the door for it to be used in the manner I'm criticizing.

radicalgraffiti
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Aug 6 2013 00:08

^ you need to get better friends

Harrison
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Aug 6 2013 02:40
Mike S. wrote:
.

I have never come across any use of trigger warnings other than for sexual assault or severe police assaults on protesters that result in permanent injury or death.

I don't tend to hang out often with other radicals, and less so radicals with questionable politics, and as far as I am concerned the political activity of the latter does not concern me due to its sheer irrelevancy.

Perhaps because of this I am not as familiar with whatever the latest activistoid nonsense is, but in the circles that I respect, I have not seen trigger warnings used for hamburgers or someone getting a bit bruised by a police baton.

I suggest you forget bothering to engage with activistoids about political correctness gone mad, and instead ignore them.

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Chilli Sauce
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Aug 6 2013 06:51
Standfield wrote:
"The 1%".

Or even,

"The 99%".

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Re: Trigger Warning. My experience has been that they're generally only used in relation to sexual assault/PTSD, etc. However, having lived in the States, I have no doubt there are some folks who would use them to the point of absurdity (not unlike 'check your privilege'). If you've come across some of those folks, I could see how trigger warnings come to symbolize an overall annoyance to the activisty nature of much of the US anarchist scene.

But really, I don't think changing the use of trigger warnings will bring any growth to the anarchist movement. As someone has already said, if it's not relevant to the actual lives of non-politicos, no use or non-use of any particular language is going to make very big difference at all.

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Entdinglichung
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Aug 6 2013 08:10

stuff like "I also do think that the Taliban/Putin/Ken Livingstone/etc. are problematic, but ..."

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Entdinglichung
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Aug 6 2013 09:21

trying to convince "ordinary people/workers", that they should oppose a war because the war drains resources from the public welfare/education/etc. budget ... Hermann Gremliza, the editor of the German left-wing (and mildly "Anti-German") magazine Konkret replied during the war in Yugoslavia 1999 to a member of Linksruck (German SWP clone) who brought this argument forward that with this mindset, he could also raise the slogan "make our wars cheaper!" ... the German CP's youth org SDAJ operated during the 1980ies primarily with slogans like "apprenticeships, not weapons" which is also pretty bad

p.s.: why not start a thread "things ultra-leftists/anarchists/impossibilists/etc. say that you hate hearing all of the time"

Mike S.
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Aug 6 2013 09:43
Webby wrote:
Sure Teh, I know exactly what you mean and don't disagree, I'm just saying its not as clear cut as you seem to think. You can have a bad day AND come to help others. That's the whole point.
Some groups are pretty cringy but so what? Just cause you and I find them cringy it doesnt make them any less valid. The idea that these incredibly self centred people can find relief from themselves by supporting others is an incredibly powerful one.
As for addressing the broader social issues, well, rightly or wrongly NA works on a 'disease' model and therefore social issues don't fit into its self appointed remit.
Did we burn candles? Did we fuck! We were fucking hardcore! We operated outside of the service structure, printed our own books, did out reaches to prisons etc. amongst our number were violent criminals, homeless people, prostitutes etc as well as academics, business people and even toffs!
This may not fit too well in to class politics, and certainly it has many flaws but if I felt I needed to go back there to save my arse I wouldn't hesitate for a fucking minute!

What are toffs? Anyhow, the NA and AA programs were build around Carl Jungs theory he formulated with an alcoholic patient of his. The man, in Jungs opinion, could only live a normal life if he found god. The Bill guy from AA took that and mixed it with the Oxford Group's religious program and the twelve step recovery program was born. I think it a shame that courts sentence people to 12 step meetings. It's like forcing god on people. I'm incapable of any sort of spiritual awakening so if my alcohol intake ever gets extremely out of hand I'm screwed.

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Noah Fence
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Aug 6 2013 11:24

Toff is a British term for upper class/aristocracy.

I know all about the history of 12 step programs and the religious background but sometimes there is no point deconstructing things. It is what it is and for some people it works. The people that came to meetings picking the program to pieces didn't get clean.
The power of the program is impossible to understand unless you are an addict that has found recovery through it. Everything else is pretty meaningless. Addiction is not an intellectual problem but one of the spirit. On an intellectual level there are many things that can be perceived as a problem, but when I walked in the door, a broken man, I had to let go of those reservations, the result being that in less than a week my obsession with drugs was gone and has never returned. I'm just not going to argue with that result.
Of course, capital smelt blood and has hijacked NA for profit, homogenising it in the process but that wasn't the case in our group and quite a number of groups in the US. There are some very strong independent groups in Pennsylvania,Texas and many other places.
As for 'sentencing' people to 12 step programs - this is clearly fucking stupid and simply doesn't work.