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the SWP-name and shame their stupid actions from past and present.

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jura's picture
jura
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Jun 5 2012 15:40

Devrim, I think it's pretty clear from the bit in bold that the Prime Minister is in fact talking about you!

ocelot's picture
ocelot
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Jun 5 2012 15:49

It's also in keeping with the SWP's past electoralist relations with the Muslim Association of Britain, the UK affiliate of the Muslim Brotherhood.

I also seriously doubt whether Cliff would have been so accepting of the overt anti-semitism of the MB world-view.

bastarx
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Jun 6 2012 01:13
xslavearcx wrote:
I got stopped by an SWP newspaper seller last week, who told me about some meeting he wanted me to go. I'm not very good at saying no to people, so i tried to think of an excuse about why i couldnt turn up on this tuesday evening. problem is i dont think that fast either so i ended up saying "sorry i won't be able to come on tuesday, i've got something on on tuesday, i can't remember what it is, but i've got something on...' laugh out loud

the guys face was quality

I've told a few Trot papersellers, "no thanks, I don't read the capitalist press".

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Entdinglichung
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Jun 6 2012 07:56
Peter wrote:
xslavearcx wrote:
I got stopped by an SWP newspaper seller last week, who told me about some meeting he wanted me to go. I'm not very good at saying no to people, so i tried to think of an excuse about why i couldnt turn up on this tuesday evening. problem is i dont think that fast either so i ended up saying "sorry i won't be able to come on tuesday, i've got something on on tuesday, i can't remember what it is, but i've got something on...' laugh out loud

the guys face was quality

I've told a few Trot papersellers, "no thanks, I don't read the capitalist press".

it is fun to tell some SWPers, that you prefer the AWL's press ... even better to tell Sparts, that you like the IBT's journal 1917

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
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Jun 6 2012 13:14

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2012/06/06/egypt-vote-muslim-brotherhood#comment-30462

Quote:
Egyptian Revolutionary Socialists apologise to their membership

In a surprising announcement that appears to come from the leadership of the Egyptian Revolutionary Socialists, they have apologised to their membership for the statement released on May 28th. See http://www.e-socialists.net/node/8812

The statement of apology, which is only available in Arabic, indicates that the manner of the debate around the call for a vote for the MB was inadequate. It distances itself from, at least it doesn't repeat, the call for a vote for the Brotherhood in the forthcoming presidential run-off this week-end. The apology acknowledges the lack of consultation with the membership and indicates that there may well have been considerable dissent amongst them. The apology does not however make a clear break with the idea of making alliances with Islamists, or in this case casting a vote for the MB, on principle.

This follows a conference of revolutionary forces at the week-end and a major mobilisation yesterday called by that conference which likely attracted in the order of 100,000.

At both events opposition to the Muslim Brotherhood was considerable. Not only is there great alarm from the Coptic Christians about the Brotherhood, never mind the concern from secular socialists, but the Brotherhood were also highly aggressive at Tuesday's demonstration against anyone who advocated a boycott accusing them of being 'traitors'.

Hopefully the culture of criticism of the SWP flawed formulae will continue within the Egyptian Revolutionary Socialists.

rooieravotr
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Jun 6 2012 17:13

IS Tendency and related trotskyists arguing amongst themselves in the comment sectoion of a John Molyneux (old school SWP leading member, not the worst of them but here sticking to the Party Line at all costs) article. Apparently the ISO (US IS Tendency club, kicked out the tendency on SWP initiative around 2000) is opposed to the vote-MB-without-ilusions-policy here, ; the RS defends their decicion, here.

Interesting quote from the latter:

Quote:
AFTER MONTHS of debate on these issues in Egypt, revolutionaries and socialists have struggled to get the balance right in terms of the approach towards the Muslim Brotherhood. In all honesty, many of us face tremendous pressures from anarchists and ultraleftists who have been touting the line of describing the Muslim Brotherhood as a fascist organization.

Now, while the characterization of the MB as simply 'fascist'seems mistaken to me - they are reactionary, but there are different forms of reaction - , the pressures that "anachists and ultraleftists" seem to be able to create, sounds encouraging. Trotskyists are not having it all their way in the mass movements, and that's a good thing.

bastarx
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Jun 7 2012 02:22

Damn those anarchists and ultraleftist with their infantile opposition to popular fronts with Islamists, they are always trying to wreck the progress of the vanguard of the soon-to-be union bureaucrats.

ajjohnstone
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Jun 7 2012 19:29

"...John Molyneux old school SWP leading member, not the worst of them..."

Ummm...is this the same Molyneux who wrote in a pamphlet about the SWP "socialist" future that technical experts "if absolutely necessary...will have to perform with workers' guns at their heads"

If he isn't the worst, i dread to meet the SWP's worst!!

Socialist Banner, a blog by the SPGB which concentrates on Africa recently posted (or more honestly, plagiarised another post) about Egypt.

http://socialistbanner.blogspot.com/2012/06/going-beyond-unions.html

rooieravotr
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Jun 7 2012 23:48

Yes, that is the same Molyneux. And yes, they have MUCH worse, I can assure you from experience. There are nuances within SWP politics...

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Jun 10 2012 03:15
ajjohnstone wrote:
Ummm...is this the same Molyneux who wrote in a pamphlet about the SWP "socialist" future that technical experts "if absolutely necessary...will have to perform with workers' guns at their heads"

Better than Trotsky's actual real life enforced on millions line where if you are a worker you will have to perform with a technical expert controlled gun at your head.

Skraeling
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Jun 11 2012 05:58

This is not a stupid action, but tis funny nonetheless. In New Zealand, the Socialist Workers' Organisation, sister org. to the British SWP, produced a poster that said 'Imagine a world run by people like us.'

Except the only person shown in the poster was the leader of the SWO. Imagine a world run by people like him, indeed.

I wonder if other SWP franchises around the planet did the same?

(This was at the height of the 'global justice movement' (or woteva it is now called) in 2000 or 01).

wojtek
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Jul 16 2012 22:15
Quote:
freemind wrote:
Around 1990 AFA organised a 5000 strong march through East London. For years the Left had ignored the struggle on the streets waged by AFA against fascist scum and merely dismissed the BNP/NF as an irrelevance. When they saw the effect of AFA's initiatives on local working class youth however they had the front to go on Capital Radio and claim they organised the march.

Was this the ANL, of which Andrew 'TEH WORKERZ WEREN'T GRAYTFUL!!11!' Marr was a member...?

Anti-Nazi League: Don’t Believe the Hype

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Jul 20 2012 20:45
wojtek wrote:
Was this the ANL, of which Andrew 'TEH WORKERZ WEREN'T GRAYTFUL!!11!' Marr was a member...?

No fucking way, as in Andrew Marr ? As in this dude ?

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Jul 21 2012 17:18

Turning up to picket lines and trying to sell their crappy paper, no-one ever knows who they are, we only ever see them when there's a strike

wojtek
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Sep 3 2012 12:02

Hierarchy, recruitment for recruitment's sake

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SWP paper seller

Quote:
Pay me for it? Lol, I didn't do it for my benefit. All the papers I sold were to keep the regional organiser in paid employment. I will never forget as long as I live, being stood in the pouring rain at 4am, selling socialist workers off the back of my Vespa at a post office sorting depot. Just as I got home, dried, and into bed...I got a call.........How many did you sell??? I then got a bollocking for not pushing sales hard enough.

Croyd, I jumped the gun a bit. Marr may well have been an ANL member, but he doesn't mention it in his autobiography, he just says he wore 'his most important badges - [his] Anti-Nazi League badge, his CND badge and his Eastern European Solidarity Campaign badge' to a BBC traineeship. Marr fits Peter Wilby's description of the 'unskilled middle-class' journalist perfectly (tbf he admitted as much - though I don't think he would nowadays! wink ). Either way I don't rate him.

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Entdinglichung
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Sep 3 2012 14:02
Quote:
SWP paper seller

around 15-16 years ago, the German SWP clone Linksruck offered a kind of 1st class membership to a spokesperson of the SU of Munich University who had some leanings towards SWPism: becoming a member without having to sell the paper and without having to perform related duties but the with the possibility of quick promotion ... the SU guy however was a decent fellow and made this offer public, exposing that the Linksruck members were in fact members a two-tiered-society

no1
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Sep 7 2012 18:25

The following is from a discussion on Galloway's rape apologism

http://www.socialistunity.com/time-for-the-left-to-stand-up-for-galloway...

Andy Newman, Socialist Unity wrote:
The long term editor of Socialist Worker used to have a reputation that “no means yes”, and when he vistied some districts, experienced comrades in the know sought to ensure he was not left alone with young women.

When women who had been assaulted complained, they were diminished and hounded out of the SWP. I know of one occasion when a victim of sexual assault was sat down with a senior woman CC SWP member who told her to keep quiet for the good of “the party”, excusing the behaviour because “capitalism fucks everyone up”, and then warning if she didn’t keep quiet then no-one would believe her, and the SWP would destroy her reputation.

During the 1980s there was a strange phenomenon of several angry young womwn comrades who used to talk about the sexism of this leading comrade, but they had been intimidated out of explaining what had happened, and instead the discusion often focussed on seemingly trivial details, like the fact that he always referred to women socialists by their first names, and male comrades by surnames (lenin and marx, but Rosa and Clara, for example)

To fnd an organisation that systematicaly for decades covered up sexual assault and who intimidated women who complained into silence praised in this was is disgraceful.

Even worse, I know of an IS/SWP district in the 1970s who colluded in silence and looked the other way when a leading industrial militant was raping his own step-daughter: the individual in question had previoulsy been in the IMG, who had also covered it up. When as a young 17 year old I confronted him at a party and asked him loudly if he was still fucking his duaghter, it was me cautioned by the SWP, while the truth of thse allegations was quietly ignored.

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Entdinglichung
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Sep 19 2012 13:02

from Chris Bambery's new group in Scotland:

http://internationalsocialist.org.uk/index.php/blog/racism-and-riots-why...

Quote:
There is a long history of this vicious cycle – the most memorable example being the so called ‘Salman Rushdie affair’. The version most westerners get to hear goes like this: brave artist lampoons dangerous religion and is threatened by book burning fundamentalists. The real story is that Rushdie wrote a semi-literate anti-Muslim polemic, ‘The Satanic Verses’, which portrayed Muslim men as sexual predators and Muslim women as inviting of sexual violence.

Rushdie knew what he was doing of course; his accusations are established slanders against Muslims. Liberals were sent into a senseless frenzy by protests against the book. To be frank if I found a crowd of Jews burning copies of a book that perpetrates the blood libel I’d pass some matches, my attitude to the ‘Verses’ is much the same.

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Arbeiten
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Sep 19 2012 13:18

Fucking Chris Bambery. One of my favs. grin

rooieravotr
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Sep 22 2012 02:00

I was in the Dutch IS back then when the Rushdie thing happened in 1989. I know for sure that the position - basically taken over from the SWP, of which Bambery was am influential member - was: Defend Rushdie's book, as a serious work of art, oppose the threats against him and his freedom; while opposing the misuse made by Islamophobic rigt-wingers of the whole affair. Bambery's position now is much different, and much worse. Even Trotskyism can degenerate below its usual levels...

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xslavearcx
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Sep 25 2012 23:17

God, its stuff like that pish about the rushdie affair that makes it very difficult for me to engage with lefties. and its worse given that i come from the same city as that group which means that the chances of rubbing shoulders with the likes of the above is probably pretty high. think ill just stick with the internet as far as engaging with the left goes...

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Sep 26 2012 15:06
rooieravotr wrote:
I was in the Dutch IS back then when the Rushdie thing happened in 1989. I know for sure that the position - basically taken over from the SWP, of which Bambery was am influential member - was: Defend Rushdie's book, as a serious work of art, oppose the threats against him and his freedom; while opposing the misuse made by Islamophobic rigt-wingers of the whole affair. Bambery's position now is much different, and much worse. Even Trotskyism can degenerate below its usual levels...

Basically while Tony Cliff was alive we thought the SWP couldn't possibly get any worse than it already was. Then he died and we were proven oh so wrong.

Years later, during a brief engagement with a local TC affiliated (non-militant) antifa initiative, the muppet-woman the SWP had appointed to be their lead on the thing was chairing a meeting where we were discussing outreach to various areas of the town, in preparation for something or other. She volunteered herself and her even more dim sidekick to go up and do the Jewish neighbourhood in the town - on a Saturday. When she asked why myself and another AFA com were spluttering with laughter, we explained why Saturday might not be the best day to go up and do outreach there. "Well I don't know", says she "I don't know anything about Jews, I've never even met one.". To be fair, it stopped us laughing. Took us a while before we could even talk, having to pick our jaws up off the floor first. This was the best the then SWP had to offer as their chosen "leader" for the local antifa alliance thing. I guess that's what happens when you get into bed with the Muslim Brotherhood.

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Entdinglichung
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Dec 11 2012 15:52

http://www.socialistunity.com/gotcha/

Quote:
Martin Smith, former National Secretary of the SWP, has been bumped off the Central Committee. After previously being forced to resign as National Secretary following allegations of him abusing his position of power to harass a woman SWP member in Birmingham. This was handled so poorly by the SWP that I understand the woman felt unable to continue in SWP membership, and when Martin Smith stepped down he was given a standing ovation at SWP conference, with delegates stamping their feet, and chanting support. This is quite extraordinary, and indicative of a culture which colludes in sexism in order to protect the institutional interests of the SWP.

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Dec 11 2012 19:11

I recall an incident where a rather big demo was halted by a police line and a scuffle broke out with the cops, some baton charges went our way, some bottles and flagpoles theirs with some horse brigade charges and snatch squads running amok in between. Amid all this chaos there were like 5 members of the Dutch section of the IST, standing almost in front of the whole mess, holding up their newspapers and trying to sell them. I thought it was some kind of monty python sketch or whatever.

To complete the whole picture, when we got kettled, the cops made the crowd an offer, those who were 'good protesters' could pass through their narrow lines, being inspected one by one if they matched the ones being wanted for trashing a police van and de-arresting a comrade. Those who wouldn't do that were considered suspect/guilty by default. So instead of linking arms and trying to march through the police lines, the IST and the CWI members present walk up to the cops, tell them they have nothing to do with the 'troublemakers' and get a free pass, being booed by the whole crowd. Typical.

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xslavearcx
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Dec 12 2012 13:03
ocelot wrote:
I guess that's what happens when you get into bed with the Muslim Brotherhood.

can i mention again their support for the muslim brotherhood in the light of whats happening in egypt just now?

baboon
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Dec 12 2012 14:00

I haven't seen, haven't looked for anything regarding the SWP's support for the Muslim Brotherhood but from the posts above I take it as read.
It's yet another example of the nationalist SWP supporting the needs of British imperialism, the latter supporting the MB in Egypt and again in Syria which, when I last looked, this imperialist war was being characterised by the SWP (and others) as a "revolution".

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ocelot
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Dec 12 2012 17:50
xslavearcx wrote:
ocelot wrote:
I guess that's what happens when you get into bed with the Muslim Brotherhood.

can i mention again their support for the muslim brotherhood in the light of whats happening in egypt just now?

Although, to be fair, the Revolutionary Socialists (the Egyptian sister party of the SWP and member of their international) is now part of the National Salvation Front, opposing the MB... alongside the likes of Ahmed Shafiq and the other feloul they called for a vote for Morsi ("with no illusions", presumably) against, as they were then the "lesser evil". But hey... "T-t-t-hat's Dialectics, Folks!"

44
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Feb 18 2013 22:07

I've been trying to find a quote from one of the leading SWP members from a few years ago. I didn't read it directly, it was quoted in some critical article on them. It was one of them lamenting the fact that they hadn't been organised enough to incite a bigger protest than the one that took place (sorry for vagueness), and that if the protest/demo had just been 21,000 people instead of 19,000 or whatever the SWP could have marched straight into Buckingham Palace and "taken power". It was mental. Any ideas?

butchers
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Feb 19 2013 11:37

This was in relation to the protests against plans to shut a huge swathes of mines in the early 90s - the full interview is here :

Quote:
THERE IS pressure from ordinary workers on the trade union leaders.

The TUC called a 300,000 strong Sunday demonstration for the miners. They are not in the habit of calling demonstrations like that. The pressure was so massive that they had to do it.

When the employers fire their big guns again, there will be pressure on the trade union leaders to do the same things. The current situation is only temporary.

The class struggle hasn’t disappeared. Fights still take place and the role of socialists is crucial.

Imagine if we had 15,000 members of the SWP and 30,000 supporters: the 21 October miners’ demonstration could have been different. Instead of marching round Hyde Park, socialists could have taken 40 or 50,000 people to parliament.

If that had happened, the Tory MPs wouldn’t have dared vote with Michael Heseltine. The government would have collapsed.

This prospect is not unrealistic or romantic. The number of socialists organised together is important in determining the outcome of the struggle.

Over the last three months the Socialist Workers Party has recruited 2,500 people. We could have recruited many more because our ideas fit with the ideas of tens of thousands of workers. Every member is valuable because another confrontation like 21 October is coming.

44
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Feb 19 2013 21:38

Ah, 'twas Cliff himself, thank you very much.