Israelis' Apartheid Wall

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jonnyflash
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Jan 25 2007 07:58
Israelis' Apartheid Wall

Went to an event showing a recent Palestinian documentary on the wall, with a Zionist Rabbi to speak afterwards and refute the film (he wouldn't debate the presenters). About a dozen Zionist students attended, among a medium-size crowd for such an event at UVIC.
The video showed an arial view (not Ariel Sharon, nor the little mermaid) of the wall...30 metrres high, concrete and wire, it's far from a straight wall. It is designed to cut off Palestinian townships from one another, the water and farmland, and from Israeli-controlled territory. Thought I'd bring up the topic to see what people know about this. We do have at least one Israeli member, no?
The presenters seemed in favor of ONE STATE, ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE as their slogan. The Rabbi said this is impossible cuz it would undermine the "Jewish nature" of the state of Israel. Any thoughts, anyone?

2existis2resist
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Jan 25 2007 10:45

The wall is a shameful, digusting example of Israeli imperialism and Western apathy. Any other country in the world and it would be banned, but because its the Jews we cannot criticise lest we be tarred with the anti Semetic brush. So many pointless deaths and still the Israelis laugh behind their Aparthied wall, eg one Minister said, "The palestinians are going on a diet, they won't die but they'll get a lot thinner"

Incidentally the wall has become the prime ambition for graffiti artists worldwide, check out Banksy and his doodles on the wall

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Jacques Roux
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Jan 25 2007 19:52
jonnyflash wrote:
Thought I'd bring up the topic to see what people know about this.

If people knew about the wall? I thought it was a pretty widely known thing, its in the mass media quite a lot...

I think using the word Apartheid is also touching on slightly dodgy ground because it simplifies the situation. But i guess it depends on what you mean by Apartheid.

jonnyflash
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Jan 26 2007 01:21

the

Quote:
what

inside of

Quote:
Thought I'd bring up the topic to see what people know about this.

should clear things up for rkn.

Apartheid as I understand it was a system initially modelled after the Indian Reserve System in Canada, designed to create a racial identity-based partitioning system where one race was in dire poverty, lacked civil rights and was subject to cruel attacks, while the other enjoyed all the wealth of the country.

Some apartheid vets such as Bishop Desmond Tutu have opined that Irael shares qualities with South African apartheid, such as humiliation at checkpoints and roadblocks. Much like the Zionists, white settlers in SA expelled locals from their land, ganked it, then set up a system of legal segregation.
Both systems emerged in 1948. Many differences in colonial methods exist due to the differing contexts and cultures, but it seems to me that the Israelis are finally following the white SA's footsteps by steeing up a territorial segregation system (the wall), mimicing the infamous "bantustans" of the other model.

More here, including arial maps.

http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/apartheidwall.shtml

jonnyflash
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Jan 29 2007 08:28

humff, all the other posts I started have WAY more responses than this one. Does that mean us vocal people are all on the same page re: Israel? Silence means yes.

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Joseph Kay
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Jan 29 2007 09:19
jonnyflash wrote:
Silence means yes.

oh the mantra of the rapist roll eyes

just kidding ... i don't strongly disagree with much of what you've said. re: bantustans, the settler-only roads criss-crossing the west bank have de facto partitioned it for a while, though the wall/fence is obviously an escalation (and more permanent addition) to this.

i've never thought a two-state solution made much sense, given the scarcity of crucial resources such as water in the region and the vast military disparity which would forever maintain the 'free palestine' as a psuedo-colony for cheap labour. being an anarchist, i'm obviously in favour of a no state solution. being realistic, a single bourgeois democratic state seems the most likely to lead to religious/ethnic peace (though not class peace, as per South Africa). of course that would mean the abandonment of the rightist zionist project of an ethnically pure homeland, so it's unlikely to happen any time soon.

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Felix Frost
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Jan 29 2007 22:59
jonnyflash wrote:
humff, all the other posts I started have WAY more responses than this one. Does that mean us vocal people are all on the same page re: Israel? Silence means yes.

I'm pretty sure we're not on the same page re Israel, but if you want to provoke a debate, you'll have to come up with something better than just mentioning that they're building a wall over there.

jonnyflash
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Jan 30 2007 07:13

Thanks for the frost, Felix. How might I best coax out how we aren't on the same page?

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Felix Frost
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Jan 30 2007 10:41

Some old threads about Israel and he recent war in Lebanon here:
http://libcom.org/node/8937
http://libcom.org/node/9090
http://libcom.org/node/8786

Might give you some ideas.

jonnyflash
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Feb 1 2007 04:04

Oh, I see what you mean, Felix. Anti-zionism isn't the most welcome bent in these parts...

jonnyflash
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Feb 6 2007 21:23

John -

Quote:
I don't want to end the occupation, I want to end the extension of centralized power within the hands of Israeli-US-state/mnCapital.

Lazy Riser\

Quote:
Israeli occupation of a “security zone” around Israel is a legitimate defensive measure.

hmm.

jonnyflash
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Feb 20 2007 02:32

I had the opportunity to see a lecture by an amazing author named Dan Freeman-Malloy on the of issue Palestine/Israel and how the Canadian IsraelLobby organisation is influencing Canadian policy regarding the issue of Palestine/Israel. In the United States there are several pro-Israellobby groups, AIPAC being the most powerful. In Canada there is a similar organisation that has formed on the same basic idea of lobbying unconditionally to support Israel's actions. Freeman-Maloy's book on this lobby group is called "AIPAC North"

He described the intensity of Zionist thought at York University, and the history of that, as well as dropping a few interesting facts, such as

The first head of state to visit Israel was the then President of South Afrika, for the purpose of initiating dialogue on a nuclear pact between the two nations(which was accepted and signed).

I have yet to see a speaker to rival Freeman-Malloy for thinking-on-ones-feet, dealing with and educating anti-semetic attendees on the important differences between Jewish-owned newswires and a "Jewish-controlled media", illuminating attendees on the multiracial, multireligious nature of Zionism's adherents, etc. And he was funny, too. FYI, Freeman-Malloy is himself of Jewish descent.

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Joseph Kay
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Feb 20 2007 08:04
jonnyflash wrote:
the important differences between Jewish-owned newswires and a "Jewish-controlled media"

presumably the former is irrelevant and the latter is a fantasy?