PPK or PKK... whichever

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Barkan
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Jul 7 2007 15:06
PPK or PKK... whichever

Wondered what you guys made of them?

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Joseph Kay
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Jul 7 2007 15:21
revol68 wrote:
murdering anti working class nationalist gangsters.

with left wing moustaches

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Devrim
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Jul 7 2007 17:55
Quote:
PPK or PKK... whichever

Ah, the quality of western anti-imperialism seems to be going down. Fourty years ago in the sixties they were bright kids. Possibly bright middle class kids, who had no idea what anti-working class activity these organisations got up to at home. But, they weren't too interested in the working class at home, so why should they have been really interested in the 'little brown people' abroad. Whatever...there were some bright kids.

Nowadays, they seem to be able to support organisations that have actually run campaigns of murdering workers without even knowing the name of these groups. Am I alone in finding this pathetic?

Their name is PKK, Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan, (Kurdistan Workers' Party). Please remember this, so that at least you don't seem so ignorant next time you want to support such blatantly anti-working class groups.

Devrim

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Joseph Kay
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Jul 7 2007 18:03

he hasn't said he supports them ... yet (though he's pro-hizballah so it wouldn't surprise me)

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Devrim
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Jul 7 2007 18:07
Joseph K. wrote:
he hasn't said he supports them ... yet (though he's pro-hizballah so it wouldn't surprise me)

Come on Joseph, he is pro-Hizballah, pro-Iraqi resistance, pro-North Korea even. What would you like to bet on it?

Devrim

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Joseph Kay
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Jul 7 2007 18:16

hence the "... yet." just saying like, leftists with inconsistent politics don't surprise me much

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daniel
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Jul 7 2007 19:18

pro-North Korea? Let's start a collection to send him there for a holiday. Get to see the starving people, concentration camps, police repression, etc. etc. Next he'll be saying Pol Pot had the right idea.

btw, are there any obscure leftist sects who support or supported Pol Pot? Primmos maybe?

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Joseph Kay
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Jul 7 2007 19:30

wasn't the pro-North Korea jonnyflash? or are they both?

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Devrim
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Jul 7 2007 19:31
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btw, are there any obscure leftist sects who support or supported Pol Pot? Primmos maybe?

Well daniel that was a bit of a hard question. It took me ten minutes to find one:

http://geocities.com/groupstpp/

Devrim

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Devrim
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Jul 7 2007 19:41
revol68 wrote:
that website is terrifying!

What? Do you mean this?

Group for the Study of the Theories of Pol Pot wrote:
We work to understand the ideology of Brother Number 1, so that they can be used to achieve Year Zero on world scale.
revol68 wrote:
but we want links to leftie groups in the west who cheerled Year Zero.

I am not old enough to remember, but it seems logical that Maoists would have supported him at the time. It would be difficult to find doccuments on the internet though. If you are interested Alf is old enough to remember, and might know.

Devrim

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Felix Frost
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Jul 7 2007 20:29

The Norwegian Maoists were big fans of Pol Pot in the 70's, and they had something like 5000 members at the time. I could probably dig up some fun quotes if I wanted to.


(Norwegian Maoist leader shaking hands with his great idol, Brother Number 1)

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pingtiao
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Jul 7 2007 20:47

That didn't actually happen as often or as consistently as was alleged, by the way. It seemed to be largely down to regional party bosses allowing the excesses of the peasantry to get out of hand- from what i have read (Vickery, Cambodia 1975-1982 and Kiernan, The Pol Pot Regime)

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Devrim
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Jul 7 2007 22:06

Back to the PKK:

Quote:
The PKK is Pro-American

hurriyet.com.tr

The PKK is Pro-American"

The PKK has steered away from Marxist ideology, and has now become heavily pro-American", representatives from the PKK-affiliated Democratic Solution Party told an American magazine. The article claimed that support for the PKK had grown in the region over recent tensions between northern Iraq and Turkey.

Recent developments regarding the Democratic Solutions Party (KDÇP) -founded by the PKK and its side organisation, PJAK - were reported in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.

While representatives of the KDÇP denied being a cloak of the PKK, which the USA, the EU and Turkey have accepted as a terrorist organisation, they stated, "We share the same ideology." KDÇP President, Dr. Fayık Muhammed Golpi, told the magazine, "We were a Marxist organisation. Following the collapse of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics we re-evaluated Marxism. Abdullah Öcalan wrote a book about this. We cannot ignore the realities of the period of globalisation. We have chosen democracy and federalism. This is not a tactical move."

Will leftists stop supporting them now?

Devrim

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pingtiao
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Jul 7 2007 23:03

Devrim, please could you link to or summarise the policy and allegations involving the murdering of workers (teachers, wasn't it?)

I'd like to be able to quote it in debates in the future if I ever meet anyone who is pro-PKK...

Mike Harman
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Jul 7 2007 23:14

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/turkey/turk3.htm

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/turkey/leaf8.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/studies4.htm

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pingtiao
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Jul 7 2007 23:24

Cheers catch.

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MJ
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Jul 8 2007 05:27
Devrim wrote:
Back to the PKK:
Quote:
The PKK is Pro-American

hurriyet.com.tr

The PKK is Pro-American"

The PKK has steered away from Marxist ideology, and has now become heavily pro-American", representatives from the PKK-affiliated Democratic Solution Party told an American magazine. The article claimed that support for the PKK had grown in the region over recent tensions between northern Iraq and Turkey.

Recent developments regarding the Democratic Solutions Party (KDÇP) -founded by the PKK and its side organisation, PJAK - were reported in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.

While representatives of the KDÇP denied being a cloak of the PKK, which the USA, the EU and Turkey have accepted as a terrorist organisation, they stated, "We share the same ideology." KDÇP President, Dr. Fayık Muhammed Golpi, told the magazine, "We were a Marxist organisation. Following the collapse of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics we re-evaluated Marxism. Abdullah Öcalan wrote a book about this. We cannot ignore the realities of the period of globalisation. We have chosen democracy and federalism. This is not a tactical move."

Will leftists stop supporting them now?

Devrim

Dunno. Isn't Öcalan real into Bookchin now or something?

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Devrim
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Jul 8 2007 05:46
MJ wrote:
Dunno. Isn't Öcalan real into Bookchin now or something?

I don't know. Apo is in İmralı, a prison island with him as the only prisioner. He does release the occasional political statement, but one can't help thinking that these are very much controlled by the state.
Devrim