Ubuntu

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AnarchoAl
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Joined: 29-05-04
Mar 10 2005 17:41
Ubuntu

I just thought I'd highlight this for anyone who's been thinking of trying linux but been too scared http//www.ubuntulinux.org

It's very nice. Installing it on the same machine as windows takes some knowledge, there's a couple of odd tricks that most techie people wouldn't know to get it working*, but if it'll be an ubuntu-only machine installation is dead easy. It's a very easy-to-use system, and there's lots of hints for tweaking it to get everything working nicely**. The system itself is easier to use than windows in my opinion (and I have some usability training 8) ), not perfect by any means but better. Ubuntu's perfect for email, web, word-processing, file-sharing and so on. There are advanced graphics packages, but the music software and 3d gaming are a work in progress.

There's a new version coming out soon, which looks like it'll be a big improvement (the current release is their first ever), so it may be worth waiting for that. I'll be happy to advise anyone wanting to make the switch )

* apart from the usual fiddling around with partitions, a bug means that you have to back up a file (I think NTSDETECT.COM or something) and copy it back after ubuntu installation for GRUB to be able to boot windows... it's weird as hell... And you have to set up mount points for fat32 partitions manually. For NTFS partitions, you need to edit /etc/fstab after the installation.

** for example you have to download some extra software to get mp3s working, but downloading new software is a doddle on ubuntu, it can all be done from one application. Another post tells you how to make the fonts look smoother. But there's not too much of this stuff to do, just a few tweaks..

phoebe
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Joined: 20-09-03
Mar 10 2005 18:04

Or of course you could use a distribution which teaches you the linux fundamentals which are applicable on almost all Linux systems, like Slackware, so that you don't get stuck unable to do anything when you use a linux box with a different distro.

AnarchoAl
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Joined: 29-05-04
Mar 10 2005 18:34

Well, Ubuntu is basically Debian, with Gnome System tools etc more complex tasks will gradually come to have standard GUIs across all distros. Sure if you want to learn about Unix, install Slackware, but if you want to just use your computer, install Ubuntu.

I haven't used Slackware in a while, but found it about as usable as a 40-ton truck without power steering.

ffaker
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Joined: 7-10-03
Mar 10 2005 21:15

GNU/Linux distro religious wars!!!!

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Seriously: you'd recommend Slackware for newbies? I have yet to use it so I can't really say, but isn't that one like, the uber-distro for real UNIX-heads?

p.s. Debian ownz j00. (etc.)

lucy82
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Joined: 31-05-04
Mar 10 2005 21:24
Quote:
Ubuntu is basically Debian, with Gnome System tools etc more complex tasks will gradually come to have standard GUIs across all distros.

mum, help!!! they're talking in tongues confused

ffaker
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Mar 10 2005 23:15
lucy82 wrote:
Quote:
Ubuntu is basically Debian, with Gnome System tools etc more complex tasks will gradually come to have standard GUIs across all distros.

mum, help!!! they're talking in tongues confused

LOL

Ubuntu: a newish distribution of the GNU/Linux operating system (see above).

Operating system (OS): the basic system software you need to make your computer do usefull things, such as run applications. Examples are: Windows, Mac OS, GNU/Linux, FreeBSD etc. etc.

Distribution: GNU/Linux is collaberatively made and freely shared, so no one corporation or group owns it. Various corporations and groups release their own "Distributions" (or "distros") which have different defaults and can vary quite widely in terms of setup etc but are all basically the same system and thus extremely compatable. In the case of Debian, it is put together purely by volunteers in a pretty damn democratic non-profit organisation.

Debian: ones of the best OS -es in the world.

GNOME: An extremely pretty and functional graphical desktop environment for GNU/Linux and other UNIX based systems

GUI: Graphical User Interface. Pronounced "gooey". Means you interface with the program using a mouse to click on windows, menus and stuff instead of a scary command line.

Sorry to be so elitist (elitist geeks bug the crap out of me).

lucy82
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Joined: 31-05-04
Mar 11 2005 00:29

ta asa

i went to an imc reboot ages ago in lancaster and learnt about linux. i wanted to use it but then lots of people said if you try to change your oc from windows to linux it'll fuckup unless you know what you're doing, so i didn't.

phoebe
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Joined: 20-09-03
Mar 11 2005 09:55
Quote:
Seriously: you'd recommend Slackware for newbies? I have yet to use it so I can't really say, but isn't that one like, the uber-distro for real UNIX-heads?

I pretty much learned linux on Slackware exclusively (after using Mandrake and getting pissed off with the "helpful" config apps re-writing the config files I'd edited to how they thought my configuration should be). I think people have to be babied through it a little bit at first (I was) but once you're done you pretty much understand the structure of a general linux system. There are a lot of things I like like about it like the fact that it forces you to learn to compile your own apps pretty fast (which is only as difficult as reading the README file and typing "configure <enter> make <enter> make install" anyway). It doesn't make you dependant (much) on distribution-specific configuration programs except for the ones that normally come with linux anyway (xorgconfig, etc). I recognise the importance of things like Ubuntu in that they're less scary for people who have gotten used to the structure of windows but I'm also wary of things that make people scared of using the command line or editing configuration files by hand (because editing config files is really easy as long as the documentation isn't utterly crap).

I'd like to know what problems you had with slackware because I've never really had any, and that tends to be why I use it. The slackware install isn't that pretty to look at (shock horror, it's an oldskool text menu instead of a graphical menu, how scary) but it's efficient and simple enough. Slackware itself is a lot like what'll happen if you make your own Linux From Scratch except probably without all the optimisation you'd get out of it.

Having said that, other than Slackware, I think Gentoo is pretty cool. That's mostly to do with the sexy graphics and the fact that emerge is really nice as a program download system. I'd probably be using Gentoo if my linux box had an internet connection and more power.

Quote:
i went to an imc reboot ages ago in lancaster and learnt about linux. i wanted to use it but then lots of people said if you try to change your oc from windows to linux it'll fuckup unless you know what you're doing, so i didn't.

Lots of people say that as a warning but it's not really true (I personally don't think). The Linux Documentation Project has a whole bunch of HOWTO files on running both windows and linux. One common problem you might experience is windows over-writing the Boot Loader occasionally, but apart from that it shouldn't be a problem - you just make a recovery disk that will boot your computer into Linux and then in linux re-run the boot-loader install program. AFAIK it only happens when you boot from a Windows Install/upgrade disc, but I haven't run Windows on my own computer for a long time.

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+Windows-HOWTO/ and http://www.geocities.com/epark/linux/grub-w2k-HOWTO.html might be worth a read

LiveFastDiarrea
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Joined: 19-09-03
Mar 11 2005 11:57

I'm using Ubuntu at the moment, mailny because I tried installing debian and had some problems with it, but didn't have the time to try and sort them out because of needing to do work, so I got Ubuntu.

At first I didn't like it, but now I'm used to using Gnome its alright, the mp3 thing is annoying in that you can't rip to mp3 without downloading a rpm and aliening it to .deb (least thats the only way I've seen of doing it, and the annoying thing is for some reason the only site I've found with the file my computer wont download from). But the mp3 thing aint Ubuntus fault anyway, so we can't blame them for that.

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Rob Ray
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Joined: 6-11-03
Mar 11 2005 12:08

Can you use Quark (pubishing tool) on it? Cos if so I could put it on my laptop.

Mike Harman
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Joined: 7-02-06
Mar 11 2005 12:09

afaik (which is clearly much less than phoebe, asa or anarchoal) you can run almost any software using wine or similar windows emulators.

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Rob Ray
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Joined: 6-11-03
Mar 11 2005 12:10

That'd be good, my windows programme has decided it's going to get all neurotic on me anyway roll eyes

Garner
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Joined: 30-10-03
Mar 11 2005 12:23
phoebe wrote:
Or of course you could use a distribution which teaches you the linux fundamentals which are applicable on almost all Linux systems, like Slackware, so that you don't get stuck unable to do anything when you use a linux box with a different distro.

Funny you should say that, coz I decided to try ubuntu after you recommended it in another thread a while back. Pretty sure it was you...

Anyway, I'm having trouble getting it to boot XP, but ubuntu itself is working quite nicely, and was very easy to install (apart from that wee dual boot problem).

phoebe
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Joined: 20-09-03
Mar 11 2005 12:28

Checking things out I don't think that you can run Quark on linux, although there are a number of linux-based publishing software tools which may or may not meet your needs. There isn't a lot of information on the Wine website about it (the one bug mentioned running QuarkXPress is one which occurs in windows as well)

The main GPL Quark clone for Linux is Scribus. Apparently it's won a few awards. I haven't used it but it's recommended on the internet by a few ex-Quark users. On the down side they don't import or export quark files because Quark threatened them with legal action when they tried to first off and as a free software project they don't have the ammo to fight that kinda stuff.

phoebe
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Joined: 20-09-03
Mar 11 2005 12:33
Garner wrote:
phoebe wrote:
Or of course you could use a distribution which teaches you the linux fundamentals which are applicable on almost all Linux systems, like Slackware, so that you don't get stuck unable to do anything when you use a linux box with a different distro.

Funny you should say that, coz I decided to try ubuntu after you recommended it in another thread a while back. Pretty sure it was you...

Anyway, I'm having trouble getting it to boot XP, but ubuntu itself is working quite nicely, and was very easy to install (apart from that wee dual boot problem).

It probably was me. I know I'm a bit of an arsehole. I#m a little torn between getting more windows folks over to linux and getting more linux folks over to slackware. ubuntu has a bigger support community than slackware so you're probably better off with it. I just thought that I'd pip in about slackware whilst the going was good in this thread.

phoebe
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Joined: 20-09-03
Mar 11 2005 12:35
LiveFastDiarrea wrote:
I'm using Ubuntu at the moment, mailny because I tried installing debian and had some problems with it, but didn't have the time to try and sort them out because of needing to do work, so I got Ubuntu.

At first I didn't like it, but now I'm used to using Gnome its alright, the mp3 thing is annoying in that you can't rip to mp3 without downloading a rpm and aliening it to .deb (least thats the only way I've seen of doing it, and the annoying thing is for some reason the only site I've found with the file my computer wont download from). But the mp3 thing aint Ubuntus fault anyway, so we can't blame them for that.

What's the app that you want to use? Can't you just download a source tarball and compile/install that?

LiveFastDiarrea
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Joined: 19-09-03
Mar 11 2005 15:00

Its the lame encoder so I can encode mp3's, I searched for ages for the file I needed to no avail, went on the ubuntu forums and was told that I had to download a rpm from this site and alien it then install it, apparently for legal reasons thats the only way I can get mp3 encoding on my computer. But the site wouldn't let me download the file, I think that might have something to do with my university network though.

ffaker
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Joined: 7-10-03
Mar 11 2005 15:11
LiveFastDiarrea wrote:
the mp3 thing is annoying in that you can't rip to mp3 without downloading a rpm and aliening it to .deb

Haven't used Ubuntu yet, but since it's Debian based, I assume you could do the same as I would do: search apt-get.org for lame or which ever MP3 encoder you're after, add the relevant deb line to /etc/apt/sources.list , then do apt-get update ; apt-get install lame

Viola! One of the beauties of the apt system is that you can get your hands on and keep updated non-official packages just as easy as the official Debian packages. Of course you could always enter dependancy and upgrade pergartory and install the tarball...

For anyone who doesn't know: MP3 encoders are missing from the official Debian repostiaries not for technical reasons but for legal (and hence political) reasons - the MP3 algorithm is protected by software patents. Only one of many reasons that software patents are evil.

For this reason, as well as the fact that it's a better and more up-to-date codec, I used OGG to encode my music.

phoebe
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Joined: 20-09-03
Mar 11 2005 15:13

What about downloading this: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=290

(get the latest version)

unzipping it in your /usr/local/src

tar -xzvf lame-3.96.1.tar.gz should do this, but if you have a graphical unzipper that'll do)

go into the lame directory and then typing

./configure && make && make install

That should work on any GNU/Linux system anywhere regardless of problems with packaging.

ffaker
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Joined: 7-10-03
Mar 11 2005 15:22

Forgot to mention: Scribus is great! It has come on really well since the begining when it was barely usuable. I have never used Quark, and I am no graphic designer, but I have used Scribus successfully to make a few leaftlets, with pleasing results (e.g. the flyer for the Freedom Hacklab).

The last possible use for Windows goes out the... er... window! grin

Mike Harman
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Joined: 7-02-06
Jun 22 2005 19:42

just installed ubuntu and it's pretty good, using it now. Better than Mandrake/Mandriva.

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Steven.
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Joined: 27-06-06
Jun 23 2005 08:02

Mwah-hah-hah-hah-haah

Nerds

tongue

ffaker
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Joined: 7-10-03
Jun 24 2005 13:13

What an amazing picture.

tongue

Glad to see u tried it Catch. Let us know how u get on with it - any probs etc we could help (free tech support - at least until we get bored that is).