Sex industry/Sex workers

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Wendal
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Nov 30 2004 18:41
Quote:
Quote:
a friend of mine who was a prostitute before whe was locked into a asylum gor raped in the ass by a John and was so scared that he got an orgasm. It was a realy traumatic experience. I have read testamonys from many other prostitutes that has had the same experiences. Prostitution has nothing to do with a big sex-drive or something like that.

That's really shit for your friend, but don't assume it's the same for everyone.

I have found no material that shows anything else. The only material i have seen where people talk about how fun it is to be a prostitute is in tabloids and in material from groups like Coyote who claim to be some kind organisation for prostitutes but the only members are pimps and johns.

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quote]The usual reason for a prostitute to deny a John(its the Johns who does the choosing) is if she not that the John is violent or dangerous. Some prostitutes dosent even has the possibility to do that.

Again, no-one's denying that prostitutes are generally in a shitty situation,

Actualy some people on this forum seem to do it.

Quote:
but you shouldn't assume it's the same for all of them. And surely organising in a union would be a big step in giving them some choice (among other improvements in working conditions). Should they be denied any improvement in their situation just because of your view that prostitution always equals rape and slavery?

Where does all this reformative thinking comes from?

Are there no anarchists on this forum at all? If the prostitutes would have unions who would the union negotiate with? The pimps? In Oslo/Norway Pimps are not that common*. There is an unwritten rule between the streetprostitutes(i.e most of the prostitutes in Oslo) to keep the prize on a stable level with the prize of a hit. When the price of the drugs goes up so does the prize on runketurer. Sometimes old crack-heads who has been so worn out by prostitution, drug abuse and age that they cant compete with the other** try to compete by lowering the prize on themself. When something like that is discovered the other prostitutes hunts that person from the street. Its like a cartel made by the wretched of the earth so i dont see what good a union might do.

In most countries prostitution is ilegal(in Sweden the Johns are the criminals instead tough) in any of the cases it would be hard to combine it with a union. To make it legal is no way to solve it either since al atemps to do that has had fatal effects and the prostitutes and for prostitutes like those in the streets of Oslo it would mean an even stricter form of slavery and even less indipendce. In Thailand the prostitutes are now united to stop atemp of the state to legalise prostitution.

*= I dont remember how the prostitutes got rid of them but hopefully they got together and kicked the shit out the pimps.

**= The eternal teenager is the most common ideal for Johns just like in most media. Moviestars doing faceliftes to remove wrinkles and mutilate their breasts to remove signs of agin. Pornstars shaving their vaginas to look more like children and so on...

Garner
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Joined: 30-10-03
Dec 1 2004 16:20
Wendal wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
a friend of mine who was a prostitute before whe was locked into a asylum gor raped in the ass by a John and was so scared that he got an orgasm. It was a realy traumatic experience. I have read testamonys from many other prostitutes that has had the same experiences. Prostitution has nothing to do with a big sex-drive or something like that.

That's really shit for your friend, but don't assume it's the same for everyone.

I have found no material that shows anything else. The only material i have seen where people talk about how fun it is to be a prostitute is in tabloids and in material from groups like Coyote who claim to be some kind organisation for prostitutes but the only members are pimps and johns.

I doubt that any prostitutes do it because it's fun, but I think your friend's experience was probably an extreme one. And the extreme experiences are the ones you're more likely to hear about.

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Again, no-one's denying that prostitutes are generally in a shitty situation,

Actualy some people on this forum seem to do it.

Who? I've seen plenty of people deny your assertion that all prostitutes are always in a shitty situation, and that prostitution is necessarily equivalent to rape and slavery, but I don't think anyone's said it's not a shitty job.

Quote:
Where does all this reformative thinking comes from?

Are there no anarchists on this forum at all? If the prostitutes would have unions who would the union negotiate with? The pimps? In Oslo/Norway Pimps are not that common*. There is an unwritten rule between the streetprostitutes(i.e most of the prostitutes in Oslo) to keep the prize on a stable level with the prize of a hit. When the price of the drugs goes up so does the prize on runketurer. Sometimes old crack-heads who has been so worn out by prostitution, drug abuse and age that they cant compete with the other** try to compete by lowering the prize on themself. When something like that is discovered the other prostitutes hunts that person from the street. Its like a cartel made by the wretched of the earth so i dont see what good a union might do.

In that instance a union could negotiate with the government, say, to make their working environment safer. But unions are probably more useful for those who work in brothels. And yeah, it is reformist - unions almost always are - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't support them.

Quote:
In most countries prostitution is ilegal(in Sweden the Johns are the criminals instead tough) in any of the cases it would be hard to combine it with a union. To make it legal is no way to solve it either since al atemps to do that has had fatal effects and the prostitutes and for prostitutes like those in the streets of Oslo it would mean an even stricter form of slavery and even less indipendce. In Thailand the prostitutes are now united to stop atemp of the state to legalise prostitution.

I think there are a number of countries now where it's the Johns that are criminalised rather than the workers. In those cases, why shouldn't they have unions? And where it's illegal, they obviously can't have official unions, but surely getting together and organising (as they're doing in thailand to stop legalisation, if I understand you correctly) would be a step in the right direction.

Wendal
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Dec 1 2004 17:07
Garner wrote:
Wendal wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
a friend of mine who was a prostitute before whe was locked into a asylum gor raped in the ass by a John and was so scared that he got an orgasm. It was a realy traumatic experience. I have read testamonys from many other prostitutes that has had the same experiences. Prostitution has nothing to do with a big sex-drive or something like that.

That's really shit for your friend, but don't assume it's the same for everyone.

I have found no material that shows anything else. The only material i have seen where people talk about how fun it is to be a prostitute is in tabloids and in material from groups like Coyote who claim to be some kind organisation for prostitutes but the only members are pimps and johns.

I doubt that any prostitutes do it because it's fun, but I think your friend's experience was probably an extreme one. And the extreme experiences are the ones you're more likely to hear about.

What you call extreme seem to be what is most common. Then you should also take in note that even tough there are loads of material gathered that shows that are prositution is slavery there could be even more since it is always hard to do studies of slavery beacuse its dangerous for the person doing the study and her informers.

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Again, no-one's denying that prostitutes are generally in a shitty situation,

Actualy some people on this forum seem to do it.

Who? I've seen plenty of people deny your assertion that all prostitutes are always in a shitty situation, and that prostitution is necessarily equivalent to rape and slavery, but I don't think anyone's said it's not a shitty job.

Some people seem to think that prostitution is a job that people choose beacuse they enjoy it or beacuse it is a well paid job that is somehow better then working at a fast food joint or whatever. What they canot see is that most people are fooled or forced into prostitution with the same strategy as most slavery today and those who are not are to a bid degree victims of the economical opression of females or mentaly scared from sexual abuse. Working at Burger king is a shitty job. Being chained to a table in a H&M cloth-factory or working under threat for no pay is slavery. The same goes if the preasure is from a system that makes sure that keeps women out of the jobs. In times when there has been few males to marry and even less jobs that women could legaly work with prostitution has been even bigger. If you realy want to help prostitution then you should fight discrimination against women and etnical groups.

Quote:
Where does all this reformative thinking comes from?

Are there no anarchists on this forum at all? If the prostitutes would have unions who would the union negotiate with? The pimps? In Oslo/Norway Pimps are not that common*. There is an unwritten rule between the streetprostitutes(i.e most of the prostitutes in Oslo) to keep the prize on a stable level with the prize of a hit. When the price of the drugs goes up so does the prize on runketurer. Sometimes old crack-heads who has been so worn out by prostitution, drug abuse and age that they cant compete with the other** try to compete by lowering the prize on themself. When something like that is discovered the other prostitutes hunts that person from the street. Its like a cartel made by the wretched of the earth so i dont see what good a union might do.

In that instance a union could negotiate with the government, say, to make their working environment safer. But unions are probably more useful for those who work in brothels. And yeah, it is reformist - unions almost always are - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't support them.

People who are sold in brothels has no use for unions since they are slaves and always in economical debt to the pimp owning the brothel(same strategy as other forms of contemporary slavery). Street-prostitutes has in the best cases not a pimp and if they have a pimp then they are no less slaves than any of the slaves in the brothel.

Quote:
I think there are a number of countries now where it's the Johns that are criminalised rather than the workers. In those cases, why shouldn't they have unions? And where it's illegal, they obviously can't have official unions, but surely getting together and organising (as they're doing in thailand to stop legalisation, if I understand you correctly) would be a step in the right direction.

I absolutly think that they should organise. I dont know how well organised the prostitutes in Thailand are but i know that some representatives for them took contact with the goverment when legalisation of prostitution was discussed. I(and probably not those prostitutes from thailand either) dont think that they should have unions tough beacuse the goal should be to stop sexual slavery once and for all. Those glamorous forms of prostitution that most people seems to be the ideal enviorment that all prostitutes should have acess to is not the result of the prostitutes desire its a result of johns who wants their rape to feel more like a date(date-rape?). A prostitute in restuarant envioroment have to spend a half day with the john, conversating, being intresting and funny, pretend to be intrested in what the john do for a living. Before that she must spend a lot of time doing make-up and dressing up and usualy the John wants her to stay over the night at the hotel when he has done his shit. There are no form of prostitution that any human should have to suffer(and that goes dubble up for the women since their situation in prostitution are usualy much worse than the males) and there is no form for pay to rape that would mean a job that wont destroy a persons life. Therefore i say no to unions for prostitutes. To make unions for prostitutes is also dangerous since it is to acept prostitution as a work and not slavery and rape. People who has survived rape described the feeling like being killed and yet not die. That is not an experience that i think that anyone should have to go through on a day to day basis(alternative learning to turn of their feeling which on the other hand makes it harder each time to turn them on again afterwards).

Noone has answered my question by the way if it would been some benefits to organise in unions for the slaves in America instead of abolishing slavery? If not then why using that strategy against prostitution?

Wendal
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Joined: 4-11-04
Dec 1 2004 21:03

Jack>>> So it's hysterical to be against slavery?

3rdseason
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Dec 2 2004 11:42

I still can't believe Wendal thinks a prostitute having sex with a client and getting paid for it is the same as someone getting raped.

Doesnt anyone else think that is just a vile point of view and belittles the horror of what rape victims have been through.

I can see how prostitution can mess people up mentally but to say that a hooker goes through the same degree of anguish as a rape several times a night is so wrong. sad

Oh and Wendal. You still haven't really answered (many of my points properly at all but..) do you think it would have been good for the prostitutes who my friends went to a couple years back to have murdered and robbed them?

You said earlier in the thread you think prostitutes should be taught to murder and steal from people. eek

BB
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Dec 2 2004 14:17
Garner wrote:
In that instance a union could negotiate with the government, say, to make their working environment safer. But unions are probably more useful for those who work in brothels. And yeah, it is reformist - unions almost always are - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't support them.

There's a few misnomers in there. If say you were talking about a trade union then yes, i'd agree that would be the tack they'd take, as long as they got your dues.

But organising your own union would be different (for examples, see iww, solfed...), you are in control of your union. So negotiating with the government? They are not your paymasters, an why should they give a shit?

"to make their working environment safer" Quick call the HSE, organising self-defence?

"But unions are probably more useful for those who work in brothels." Why?

Whatever worker you might be, organising a union is your only(maybe a gun...) defence , then you and the other members can take it from there.

Wendal
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Dec 2 2004 14:29

Ok. A union that is totaly different from any other union might be usefull but then i would prefer to call it an organisation to aviod missunderstandings.

Garner
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Dec 2 2004 14:34
Brighton Bomber wrote:
There's a few misnomers in there. If say you were talking about a trade union then yes, i'd agree that would be the tack they'd take, as long as they got your dues.

But organising your own union would be different (for examples, see iww, solfed...), you are in control of your union. So negotiating with the government? They are not your paymasters, an why should they give a shit?

They're not your paymasters, but if you're working on the street then they have some degree of control over your work environment, and can do things like, say, improving lighting. And they generally do seem to give a shit, probably coz they have to deal with some of the consequences if prostitutes are getting stabbed or whatever. (And 'negotiating' could be interpreted in a broad sense. wink )

Quote:
"But unions are probably more useful for those who work in brothels." Why?

Because there's a paymaster for them to deal with, obviously.

Quote:
Whatever worker you might be, organising a union is your only(maybe a gun...) defence , then you and the other members can take it from there.

Yep. That I agree with.

Wendal
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Dec 2 2004 14:46
3rdseason wrote:

Oh and Wendal. You still haven't really answered (many of my points properly at all but..) do you think it would have been good for the prostitutes who my friends went to a couple years back to have murdered and robbed them?

You said earlier in the thread you think prostitutes should be taught to murder and steal from people. eek

You never asked that question. You asked if i tought that it was right that your friends would be murdered or robbed "just beacuse" they went to a prostitute.

I gave a short answer to it but i also wrote a longer answer that i didnt had the energy to rewrite when the forum crashed. : P

When i first wrote it i didnt had any info on your friends. If your description of their understanding for the situation of the prostitutes situation is as naive as it looked the i have to be indulgent with that.

In that case i dont think that they need to be killed. Its a bit lite with the mentaly handicapped person in Monster who the maincharacter spares*.

Talking about that the person that the movie is based on is one example of a prostitute that was able to keep herself from commiting sucide by robbing and murdering Johns.

The situation is better in male homo-prostitution tough since they dont have to murder the johns. People today feel more guilt for being homosexual than johns so a hetero-john is more likely to go to the police. If we could breed a public awarnes where people would be more critical against johns instead of the prostitutes then it would be easier to create a network of organised crime to help the prostitutes and less people would humiliate themself and the prostitutes like your friends did.

*= And no, im not calling your friends mentaly handicaped. smile

BB
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Dec 2 2004 16:13
Garner wrote:
Quote:
"But unions are probably more useful for those who work in brothels." Why?

Because there's a paymaster for them to deal with, obviously.

Sorry i didn't explain myself very well, what i meant is why should a union be any less usefull (it's about what you put into it) if you worked the streets rather than in a brothel.

I'm speaking hyperthetically, as i'm not a prostitute.

BB
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Dec 2 2004 16:24
Wendal wrote:
Ok. A union that is totaly different from any other union might be usefull but then i would prefer to call it an organisation to aviod missunderstandings.

The word union to me means a form of self-defence for a group of workers, collectively/individually, which struggles against the bosses through the use of direct action/sabotage and solidarity. You could call it what you like, still sounds like a union to me.

Sorry for drifting off the thread.

Wendal
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Dec 2 2004 16:30

Ok. To make it clear im totaly for a prostitution union who's only goal is to abolish sexual slavery and create more possibilities for females so survive in this world.

Garner
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Dec 2 2004 16:40
Brighton Bomber wrote:
Sorry i didn't explain myself very well, what i meant is why should a union be any less usefull (it's about what you put into it) if you worked the streets rather than in a brothel.

I'm speaking hyperthetically, as i'm not a prostitute.

Yeah, I guess I should also point out that everything I've said on this thread (actually, everything I've said on these boards ever) is purely hypothetical speculation with no basis in reality whatsoever. grin

I just think that in the context of a brothel, a union would have a more obvious focus to direct it activities at. Perhaps I should've said union work would be easier in that context, rather than more useful.

Garner
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Dec 2 2004 16:42
Wendal wrote:
Ok. To make it clear im totaly for a prostitution union who's only goal is to abolish sexual slavery and create more possibilities for females so survive in this world.

Would you support attempts to make their working conditions more tolerable while working towards that goal?

BB
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Dec 2 2004 16:51
Garner wrote:
I just think that in the context of a brothel, a union would have a more obvious focus to direct it activities at.

A union, a group of organising workers, yes. I don't think the focus is any more/less, relevant in a brothel than it is on the streets. Brothel you've got pimp. Street you've got a pimp or you're a freelancer then it's the punter.

Garner wrote:
Perhaps I should've said union work would be easier in that context, rather than more useful.

What do you mean by union work?

Garner
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Dec 2 2004 17:17
Brighton Bomber wrote:
Garner wrote:
I just think that in the context of a brothel, a union would have a more obvious focus to direct it activities at.

A union, a group of organising workers, yes. I don't think the focus is any more/less, relevant in a brothel than it is on the streets. Brothel you've got pimp. Street you've got a pimp or you're a freelancer then it's the punter.

Yeah, but I'd've thought a brothel owner would be easier to target on account of being tied down to a big lump of capital (the brothel), and maybe having more workers. Anyway, it was only a minor point in the first place...

Quote:
What do you mean by union work?

Union activity. All the stuff unions do. Having more of a fixed target (brothel owner as opposed to various street pimps or clients) would make it a bit more straightforward, no?

BB
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Dec 2 2004 17:28
Garner wrote:
Quote:
What do you mean by union work?

Union activity. All the stuff unions do. Having more of a fixed target (brothel owner as opposed to various street pimps or clients) would make it a bit more straightforward, no?

I think there's loads of ways to skin a cat, i don't think the activity of said hypothetical union, would be easier, if in a fixed location or not, the tactics they'd use would be different, it'd depend on who was taking the action, and what worked.

What more can i bleet on about, apart from organise! wink

Wendal
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Dec 2 2004 20:46
Garner wrote:
Wendal wrote:
Ok. To make it clear im totaly for a prostitution union who's only goal is to abolish sexual slavery and create more possibilities for females so survive in this world.

Would you support attempts to make their working conditions more tolerable while working towards that goal?

No since i think that it would mislead the real struggle. Its not only socialdemocratic but its also There are by the way groups that might fit into that wide description of a union who works with it already. There are groups all over the world with prostitutes and exprostitutes and some other people who fight against sexual slavery. Although i think that it would be more excakt to call them a proleteriat of slaves and people who sympathise with that slave proleteriat. I can see why the english word union has a wider meaning by the way. The swedish word fack-förening is much more abstract and is therefore probably easily conected to clasical unionism like discussing wages and overtime. The fact that there are loads of false unions like Coyote who havent got a single prostitute in their group but lots of John's and Pimps who fights to make buying women legal and acepted while pretending to speak for some prostitute members that dosent exist also makes the word union sound kind of bad when talking about fighting sexual slavery. There is a group working with helping prostitutes in England called Anti slavery society. I dont know much about them but acording to the name they seem to be on the right track.

Hmm.. the debate seems to get calmer. Maybie we should use this break in the storm to debate how organisation for prostitutes and groups that want to help prostitutes,

Jason Cortez
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Dec 2 2004 21:43

To get better informed about this debate

Try looking here:

iusw.org/

iswface.org

swimw.org

bayswan.org/manifest.html

nswp.org/

for starters

Wendal what's your opinion about the prepectives presented on these stites?

Wendal
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Dec 2 2004 23:29

www.iusw.org/

If there are any prostitutes in the movement then i think the approach they have is pesimistic, reformative and based on self-denial.

Its good that their are against trafficking but the whole idea they have that trafficing is realy slim today is realy wierd.

-----------------------

It is impossible to know and statistics are difficult to obtain because trafficking is an underground activity. A US Government report published in 2004, estimates that 600,000-800,000 people worldwide are trafficked across borders each year. This figure does not include those who are trafficked internally.

Hundreds of women and children are trafficked each year to the UK. Research carried out for the Home Office in 2000 estimates that in one year, between 142 and 1,420 women are trafficked into the country; the figure may be higher as the research was based solely on reported cases.

http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/antislavery/trafficking.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2783655.stm

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United Nations official has described the trafficking of women and children across Asia as "the largest slave trade in history".
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The transfers are made using "even more cruel and devious means than the original slave trade," Unicef's Kul Gautum told an International Symposium on Trafficking of Children, being held in Tokyo
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in Asia and the Pacific alone, more than 30 million children have been traded over the last three decades.

A combination of poverty, globalisation, organised crime and discrimination against women encouraged the trade.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2783655.stm

Yeah that is realy what i call realy slim. smile

-------------------------------

This is just one of many examples of how the makers of the page lets propaganda come before the truth.

Everything that is written on the page(and more important the stuff that isnt written about) is well choosen for the writers atemps to legalise prostitution.

Quote:
Some sex workers want legalisation. However, wherever this has been adopted - for example, in Nevada in the United States and in Germany - sex workers became vulnerable to state control. Legal brothels tend to be soulless places where the employees are requested to work long shifts for low pay. Many girls in Germany prefer to work outside the system even though they have no state benefits.

It is also good that they aware that state prostitution will only make things worse.

Quote:
Whores in the temples of ancient civilisations were regarded as goddesses.

I dont remember to what degree that is true but the templeprostitution of Greece that there are many fairy tales about wasnt as nice as pro-prostitution people like to think. The priestess had no right to deny Johns and was in much of the same situation as in state prostitution mentioned above.

Quote:
In reality, most prostitutes are mothers too. Their clients are fathers too.

I could agree to that extant that most John's are motherfuckers. smile

http://www.iswface.org/

It give the impression of being a neutral media for prostitutes to communicate through. Dont know if it is through tough.

www.swimw.org

Seems to try to be neutral. Presents different articles and views without a specific agenda. Neither this page or the one above deals in any way as far i can see with prostitution as exploitive tough.

www.bayswan.org/manifest.html

self-denial, lightwieght atemps to feminism that colapeses beacuse of the urge to not see their own vicitimisation and beacuse of the will to not blame the opressor.

www.nswp.org/

http://www.walnet.org/csis/news/world_99/natpost-990712-2.html

One of the few constructive things i have found on the pages. This is classwar between the pimp who usualy are also the landlord and the slaves. Like all pages above except the first one they are mostly pages with links to other pages. They seem to have some kind of pro-prostitution values. The negative links are about stuff that wouldnt harm demands for legalisation of prostitution like the danger of HIV/AIDS for example. Maybie it is not the direction of the pages that creates the material tough. A werry slim minority of more privilaged prostitutes would be more likely to sit and work on an article for a homepage that prostitutes who suffer under more extreme slavery.

Wendal
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Dec 2 2004 23:35

http://www.antislavery.org/

http://www.stophumantraffic.org/sylvia.html

lucy82
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Dec 3 2004 08:40

why don't you london lot pull your eyes away from endless internet links and talk to some real sexworkers, see what they think? pity i'm miles away, i'd like to go.

No Bad Women, No Bad Children, Just Bad Laws

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/12/302238.html

The English Collective of Prostitutes and the International Prostitutes Collective invite you to an International Conference on prostitution

Saturday 4 December 2004

9.30am – 6pm

St Mary's Church, Somers Town, Eversholt St. London NW1

(Corner of Aldenham St. & Eversholt St. Undergrounds Mornington Crescent & Euston)

Fully wheelchair accessible. Refreshments.

Entrance: institutions £30; high waged £10; waged £3-£5; unwaged £3.

Wendal
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Dec 3 2004 10:11
lucy82 wrote:
why don't you london lot pull your eyes away from endless internet links and talk to some real sexworkers, see what they think? pity i'm miles away, i'd like to go.

No Bad Women, No Bad Children, Just Bad Laws

quote]

The same page:

Quote:
Most people believe sex workers should not be criminalised and do not consider paying for sex an offence. Poverty and debt, major factors in driving women into prostitution, are major issues for millions of us. Yet cuts to our survival benefits and services as well as unequal pay continue side by side with billions in unrestrained military spending.

The consultation paper appears to target men ("the demand"), rather than women and children ("the suppliers"), appealing to many women’s dislike of the sex industry.

Wow! This sounds like a group of high awarnes. Im happy to know that they get organised but since im in Sweden i have slim possibilities to participate and get a chance to hear their ideal actions. There will probably be some material published after the meeting anyhow. I think that many people in this forum would need to go there and talk with some people and amybie meet someone who has breaken through self-denial and can tell them about prostitution in real life.

Jason Cortez
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Joined: 14-11-04
Dec 3 2004 10:30

Wendal quoted

Quote:
Most people believe sex workers should not be criminalised and do not consider paying for sex an offence. Poverty and debt, major factors in driving women into prostitution, are major issues for millions of us. Yet cuts to our survival benefits and services as well as unequal pay continue side by side with billions in unrestrained military spending.

The consultation paper appears to target men ("the demand"), rather than women and children ("the suppliers"), appealing to many women’s dislike of the sex industry.

The consultation paper refered to is the government's and this reflects their opinion not that of the International Collective of Prostitutes. So the group with high awareness here is the British State( not that, that automatically makes it wrong) who aren't likely to doing many actions that i want to be invovled in.

BTW, i have a friend who is a prostitute, but she is clearly in self-denial as she dosen't have Wendal's prespective. To clarifty i am not claiming to be representing her opinions only my own (we disagree on alot of things).

3rdseason
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Joined: 19-09-03
Dec 3 2004 18:52
Jason Cortez wrote:
BTW, i have a friend who is a prostitute, but she is clearly in self-denial as she dosen't have Wendal's prespective. To clarifty i am not claiming to be representing her opinions only my own (we disagree on alot of things).

Why do you say she is in self-denial just because she doesn't have Wendals perspective? If she is actually a prostitute then I guess she would know more than Wendal about prostitution.

Obviously I dont know your friend or her views.

Jason Cortez
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Joined: 14-11-04
Dec 3 2004 22:30

sorry if it wasn't clear that i was being sarcastic. eek

My friend probaly does have a deeper insight into prostitution (at least of her own experience of it) than Wendal. But in Wendal's mind she must be in self-denial, because she thinks of what she does as a job and not as being raped.

lucy82
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Joined: 31-05-04
Dec 6 2004 14:09

from reading some stuff about the International Collective of Prostitutes, i reckon they would agree with your friend that prostition is a job.

3rdseason
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Joined: 19-09-03
Dec 6 2004 14:49
Jason Cortez wrote:
sorry if it wasn't clear that i was being sarcastic. eek

My friend probaly does have a deeper insight into prostitution (at least of her own experience of it) than Wendal. But in Wendal's mind she must be in self-denial, because she thinks of what she does as a job and not as being raped.

Oh OK I thought you were being silly but you are actually making the same point as me. I shoulda picked up on the sarcasm. 8)

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